Rinse water for CPE-2

Jobo E6 process specifies 2 rinses. First uses x4 water and the second
x10. How do you keep the water at the right temperature? Does anyone
use a cooler?

Jobo manual suggests having water @5C higher that required - is this
sufficient?

Appreciate the help,
alex

On 3 Jan 2006 12:12:14 -0800, "
wrote:

Jobo E6 process specifies 2 rinses. First uses x4 water and the second
x10. How do you keep the water at the right temperature? Does anyone
use a cooler?

Use a thermometer and draw 38C/100F water from the tap. If you have
separate hot/cold taps, you may want to look into installing a
manifold with an integrated thermometer.

For final rinses, I always use the Jobo film washer that plugs into
the tank funnel opening and attaches to the faucet. Constant
irrigation with whatever temperature is necessary - no multiple water
changes on the lift.

--
Strange, Geometrical Hinges: http://rob.rnovak.net

wrote:
: Jobo E6 process specifies 2 rinses. First uses x4 water and the second
: x10. How do you keep the water at the right temperature? Does anyone
: use a cooler?

I used to use a cooler. I would fill it with 100F water and then use premeasured
bottles filed with water at the proper temp. I kept them in the cooler until
I needed the water. The first wash is the most critical. A couple of years ago I got
a Jobo tempering bath on Ebay cheap.

: Jobo manual suggests having water @5C higher that required - is this
: sufficient?


Not needed. The water in the cooler should stay at the proper temp during the
processing.

--




-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

" wrote:

Jobo E6 process specifies 2 rinses. First uses x4 water and the second
x10. How do you keep the water at the right temperature? Does anyone
use a cooler?

Jobo manual suggests having water @5C higher that required - is this
sufficient?

Well first of all you don't say what chemistry you're
using (i.e., Tetenol, Kodak, 3 step, 6 step, etc.) And
I don't know what you're referring to by x4 and x10.
5C is a huge temperature variation...

For standard E6:

The first rinse is between the First Developer and
the Reversal Bath. Second rinse is after fixing where
temperature and time isn't critical (i.e., second rinse
is 33C to 44C.) For the first rinse, solution temp is
also less critical than for First Developer temp (only
+/- 1C vs. 0.3 C for the developer.)

I simply keep my rinse water solutions at the same
temperature as all my other solutions. There's no
need to have a drastically higher temp for your
rinse solutions since the whole point of Jobo
rotary is that it maintains temperature consistency.
Solution temperature for the first developer rinse,
reversal, and color developer are +/- 1C. Having
a first developer rinse 5C higher than other solutions
would likely cause reticulation.

Tom,

I assumed everyone has Jobo E6 manual in front of them. My fault.
Here is what it says for both Kodak E-6 and Tetenal E-6:

Temperature 38°C (100°F)

Pre-Warm 5:00
First Developer 6:30 (All Fuji films only: use 7:30)
Rinse 2:00 (4x 0:30)
Reversal Bath 2:00
Color Developer 4:00
Conditioner 2:00 (or Pre-Bleach)
Bleach 6:00
Fixer 4:00
Rinse 5:00 (10x 0:30)


4 x.30 simply means 4 chages of water 30 seconds each.

So, if I use 600ml of chemicals, I need 2.4L of water for the first
rinse, and 6L for the second. My CPE-2 has barely room for 6 bottles
w/chemicals, so rinse water must be kept somewhere else :=( The Jobo
manual suggests having rinse water (in a jar) about 5C higher so by the
time you need it it's about right.

I was wondering if there are better ways.

alex

" wrote:

Tom,

I assumed everyone has Jobo E6 manual in front of them. My fault.
Here is what it says for both Kodak E-6 and Tetenal E-6:

Temperature 38°C (100°F)

Pre-Warm 5:00
First Developer 6:30 (All Fuji films only: use 7:30)
Rinse 2:00 (4x 0:30)
Reversal Bath 2:00
Color Developer 4:00
Conditioner 2:00 (or Pre-Bleach)
Bleach 6:00
Fixer 4:00
Rinse 5:00 (10x 0:30)

Yes but note that after the color developer the
temperature can be anywhere from 33C to 40C. First
developer is critical at +/- 0.3C or 0.5F. First
developer rinse is +/- 1C or 1.8F, as is the reversal
and color developer.

After that all solutions are less temperature critical.
See Rotary-Tube Processors at
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/servi...als/z119.shtml

4 x.30 simply means 4 chages of water 30 seconds each.

Which is what I do...

So, if I use 600ml of chemicals,

600 ml? You must mean 4x150ml for 600 ml total
rinse water for the drum you're using?

With my 3060 4x5 drum I use 240ml max. I.e.,
4x240 ml per rinse for 960 ml.

I need 2.4L of water for the first
rinse, and 6L for the second.

For the second rinse, which comes after fixing,
you can simply open the drum and use running water
at 90 to 100 F (33-44C.) There's not need to store
water since temperature for the second rinse isn't
so critical.

My CPE-2 has barely room for 6 bottles
w/chemicals, so rinse water must be kept somewhere else :=( The Jobo
manual suggests having rinse water (in a jar) about 5C higher so by the
time you need it it's about right.

O.k., I get it, but that then refers to standing
water, not tempered solution. This would be fine
for the second rinse but I wouldn't use this
method for the first rinse.

I was wondering if there are better ways.

Someone else posted about using a Jobo tempering
bath. I use a TBE-2 for storing additional liters
of solutions/water to E6 temperature. But you could
use any tempering bath to do this. Or maintain a
water faucet/flow temperature for rinsing. Sounds
like you don't have a temperature control water
valve for maintaining a constant water (faucet)
temperature. If you're doing a lot of E6 I'd
recommend one of these, or some sort of water
bath that can provide +/- 1C for the first rinse.

Alex wrote:
[snip]
4 x.30 simply means 4 chages of water 30 seconds each.

You don't write where you are doing the processing. If you have access to
running H&C water and a sink, I have found a redundant thermostatically
controlled shower mixer does the job well. It's not quite accurate enough
for the first rinse but is loads easier, and makes it simple thereafter.

So, if I use 600ml of chemicals, I need 2.4L of water for the first
rinse, and 6L for the second. My CPE-2 has barely room for 6 bottles
w/chemicals, so rinse water must be kept somewhere else :=( The Jobo
manual suggests having rinse water (in a jar) about 5C higher so by the
time you need it it's about right.

As you write, the on-line manual means 4 changes of water, you are likely to
be using c.200ml. for a small tank and 600ml. or more only if you are
processing up to 10 films at once in the largest tank. That makes c.1 litre
for the first rinse.

regards,
mutley

you are likely to be using c.200ml. for a small tank

??? 200ml is not enough to develop more than 1 roll in CPE-2. Do you
develop one E6 roll at a time in your JOBO processor?

wrote:
you are likely to be using c.200ml. for a small tank


??? 200ml is not enough to develop more than 1 roll in CPE-2. Do you
develop one E6 roll at a time in your JOBO processor?

I have a Jobo 2521 tank that I use in a Jobo CPE-2 processor. It says to use
270ml when processing films in it. Of course this is the minimum. But I have
processed both 2 rolls of 35mm E-6 in 2502 reels, and 6 sheets of 4"x5" E-6
in the 2509n reels using that amount of chemistry. Actually, I have used
250ml of chemistry and it comes out the same, as measured shooting those
Kodak color strips and step wedges using a Macbeth TD-901 transmission
densitometer. I used the Tetenal E-6 soup distributed by Jobo.

I even experimented with re-using the chemistry instead of doing it
one-shot. It works well enough (increasing the time in the first developer)
to fool the naked eye, but I never finished the experiments. Using a
densitometer, I never figured out the exact time for the second batch of
films, so I could not fool the densitometer. But there is certainly a
reasonable reserve of capacity in those chemicals.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 12:00:00 up 11 days, 2:46, 4 users, load average: 4.16, 4.12, 4.13

Interesting. So, you are using 200ml in a 2521 tank loaded with two
35mm rolls. Were those 24 or 36 shots rolls?

The current Kodak E6 Single Use manual recommends 140 ml per 35mm (36
shots) or 120 roll. I know some use 125 ml per roll (Kodak E6). You
seem to have good results with 100ml per roll with Tetenal E6. Do you
increase first developer time much, and what slide film(s) do you use?

regards,
alex