Hard drive based cameras ever?

On 29 Nov 2004 08:58:46 GMT, Charlie Self wrote:

Christopher Pollard writes:

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:05:35 +0800, Christopher Pollard
wrote:

Can't find it now of course,

http://tinyurl.com/3287l

This wasn't the one I saw, but it'll do.

Looks like they're busting their chops to get a 4 gig microdrive for around
$200. B&H sells the 4 gig Hitachi (brand your outfit features) microdrive for
$239.95.

That's true now, but not at the time the information became available. I've
been using a Hitachi 4GB drive from a Muvo for nearly a year. In the UK it
cost me 160UKP - including a free Muvo :-) - and the cheapest bare drive I
could find cost over around 300UKP. Prices have changed a lot since then.

Newer Muvos have been doctored to make the Microdrive unusable in a CF slot.

--
John Bean

A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin
(H. L. Mencken)

John Bean responds:

That's true now, but not at the time the information became available. I've
been using a Hitachi 4GB drive from a Muvo for nearly a year. In the UK it
cost me 160UKP - including a free Muvo :-) - and the cheapest bare drive I
could find cost over around 300UKP. Prices have changed a lot since then.


Yes, but the poster was presenting the info now, when it is somewhat outdated,
or needed an addenda.

Newer Muvos have been doctored to make the Microdrive unusable in a CF slot.

Now ain't that nice of 'em.

What the hell is a Muvo, by the way?



Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken

John Bean responds:

That's true now, but not at the time the information became available. I've
been using a Hitachi 4GB drive from a Muvo for nearly a year. In the UK it
cost me 160UKP - including a free Muvo :-) - and the cheapest bare drive I
could find cost over around 300UKP. Prices have changed a lot since then.


Yes, but the poster was presenting the info now, when it is somewhat outdated,
or needed an addenda.

Newer Muvos have been doctored to make the Microdrive unusable in a CF slot.

Now ain't that nice of 'em.

What the hell is a Muvo, by the way?



Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken

John Bean responds:

That's true now, but not at the time the information became available. I've
been using a Hitachi 4GB drive from a Muvo for nearly a year. In the UK it
cost me 160UKP - including a free Muvo :-) - and the cheapest bare drive I
could find cost over around 300UKP. Prices have changed a lot since then.


Yes, but the poster was presenting the info now, when it is somewhat outdated,
or needed an addenda.

Newer Muvos have been doctored to make the Microdrive unusable in a CF slot.

Now ain't that nice of 'em.

What the hell is a Muvo, by the way?



Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken

John Bean wrote:

[....]

Newer Muvos have been doctored to make the Microdrive unusable in a CF slot.



Those cheap *******s! Control freaks - every one of them.

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'

John Bean wrote:

[....]

Newer Muvos have been doctored to make the Microdrive unusable in a CF slot.



Those cheap *******s! Control freaks - every one of them.

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'

I find it slighty amusing that the vast majority of replies here have
been "dude, Microdrives have been in use for years - like, WAKE UP!".

Ok, maybe the OP was completely ignorant, or maybe he just failed to
mention that he wasn't referring to Microdrives. MDs were great for
their day, but solid-state non-volatile RAM these days is cheap enough
to render the benefits of Microdrives questionable.

I think what he was getting at was using small form-factor hard drives
(i.e. 1.8" and 2.5" formats) in cameras. The benefits are obvious:

1) Huge capacities. How about 80GB built into your camera? No more
worries about extra storage, finding CD-burning kiosks or carrying an
external storage device while on a two-week holiday.

2) Speed. Contrary to what a previous poster inferred, modern hard
drives (with the exception of those puny MDs) are many times faster
than the fastest flash memory available today. I did a quick test to
check this and found that transferring an 800MB file via USB2
card-reader to my Ultra II CF card took about 5 minutes. By
comparison, transferring the same file over USB2 to my portable MP3
player (which has a 40GB 2.5" drive in it) took well under a minute.
That is a huge order of magnitude difference folks!

3) Cost. When was the last time you looked up the price of a 4GB card,
let alone one of the new and rare 8GB ones? I did a quick check and a
2GB Sandisk Ultra II CF card would cost me about £150 new. A 2.5" 80GB
drive from the same supplier would cost me about £100! 2/3rds the
price for 40 times the storage? Sounds like a no-brainer.

The cons of hard drives in cameras:

1) Size. This is the only con in this list that doesn't also apply to
MDs. Trying to engineer a 1.8" HDD into a camera body, let alone a
2.5" one while still keeping the camera a decent size would be
difficult. But I think that alternatives can be offered. How about,
for example, an auxillary battery grip that provided a slot for a 2.5"
HDD instead of additional batteries? The user could then have a
choice, and laptop-style, hot-swap between additional storage and
additional power as he/she needs. This would work easily - have you
seen a 2.5" drive in the metal before? They are TINY compared to the
behemoths you have in your desktop PC. They measure about 2.8" x 4" x
0.4". Grab a ruler if you need to - considering something that size
can pack 80GB it's pretty amazing.

2) Power consumption. It takes more juice to drive spindles and move
heads. However drives today are incredibly efficient and I can get
many hours of non-stop usage from my portable device which has a
battery capacity a lot less than that of my D70.

3) Reliability. Hard drives cannot operate in extreme conditions in
the way solid state memory can. When in Antartica or Sahara, flash is
king. However, how often do you find yourself worrying about frostbite
or heatstroke while out on a shoot? Also, there is the problem with
the inherent mechanics of hard drives - they move inside, and are much
more likely to fail than something that doesn't move. And if they
fail, you don't want 80GBs worth of data going with it. MDs don't have
this problem - oh they fail alright, but when they do fail the damage
in data loss isn't as potentially severe. But saying all that, most of
us take very good care of our cameras. Anyone with a decent lens on
their body will treat their camera with utmost respect. If you've ever
broken a lens or a filter through the slightest knock you'll know what
I mean. Modern laptop HDDs are designed to withstand a lot more than
this sort of abuse. I dare say that in general laptops are bashed
around a lot more than decent cameras. And what about the hundreds of
folks who jog with HDD-based MP3 players with no trouble? I think
modern HDDs designed for portable use can take a lot more abuse than
we normally give them credit for.

I think hard drives in cameras is extremely viable and bordering on a
good idea. Back to the original question, why hasn't anyone done it
yet?

R

PS - And in case I haven't made it clear, I'm not talking about
Microdrives!

On 29 Nov 2004 13:13:18 GMT, Charlie Self wrote:

John Bean responds:

That's true now, but not at the time the information became available. I've
been using a Hitachi 4GB drive from a Muvo for nearly a year. In the UK it
cost me 160UKP - including a free Muvo :-) - and the cheapest bare drive I
could find cost over around 300UKP. Prices have changed a lot since then.


Yes, but the poster was presenting the info now, when it is somewhat outdated,
or needed an addenda.

Newer Muvos have been doctored to make the Microdrive unusable in a CF slot.

Now ain't that nice of 'em.

What the hell is a Muvo, by the way?

MP3 player, by Creative (the sound card people).

--
John Bean

Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users?
(Clifford Stoll)