Compact, lightweight, ten times zoom AND viewfinder in one camera

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:18:34 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:



Uh, what is your point? .5 is _bigger_ than the Epson chip, which is
_already_ more than twice the size of the ones that Panasonic was using
10 years ago, so how does that let you make anything _smaller_?

This is like arguing with a 3 year old, OK it is 20x.47 = .94 inch.
With much better Resolution than the 10 year old Panasonic you quote.


So one is supposed to look down into the camera?
No maybe you should have a look at how the old rangefinder cameras
laid out the prisms, the eyepiece that the users looks into,
would be in the traditional place. the optics couple to the EVF
display matrix by right angled prisms, the .47 inch display matrix itself
would tuck into the side wall of the camera, connected with ribbon
cables to the main LCD.

So what is your prediction?

That you are going to still be peddling this twaddle five years from now.

Well your Luddites of 2005 were looking at this State of the Art then,
fortunately there are lots of enterprising visionaries still around.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/timeline.asp?start=2005

If you have a point make it, links to articles do not constitute an
argument.

Well the link will show you have far we have come in 5 years, be a man
have a look, it won't hurt.

On 18/08/10 10:23 AM, Irwell wrote:

That's very odd because I bought my Ricoh CX3 from
Amazon.com three months ago.

Yeah, I forgot about Adorama, who is the sole Ricoh dealer in the U.S now.

Adorama who has been importing Ricoh cameras for several years. Adorama
sells through Amazon, Buy.com and through their own web site and store.

SMS wrote:
On 16/08/10 5:48 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On 8/16/2010 7:48 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:16:07 +1000, dj_nme wrote:
An EVF still takes up volume in side the camera, the screen can only be
made so small and the optics required needs an amount of space (for the
lenses themselves and focusing distance) to magnify that screen so that
you can see it clearly.

Thanks for replying,
A blurb from the Epson page seems to imply pretty small dimensions can
be realised:maybe some sort of folded optics can reduce the space
required
for focusing the magnifying lens.
Epson's ULTIMICRON SVGA panel has 1.44M pixels within it's 0.47 inch
diagonal size, and it is also able to render rich gray scales and
natural
defocusing through the analog driven liquid crystal technololgy.

Nikon, Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, and several others have been making
cameras with EVFs for more than a decade now. You're acting like this is
something new and revolutionary. It isn't.

Perhaps his point is that the Epson device will allow higher quality
EVFs. The present EVFs are not all that great in terms of quality,
though they're good enough to frame the picture. Not as good as an OVF
to be sure, but adequate.

This one doesn't look all that spectacular. The 1.4MP resolution quoted
is counting red, green and blue. It's only 800x600:
http://global.epson.com/newsroom/2009/news_20091014.htm

"John Turco" wrote in message
...
[]
The main problem with a P&S camera's optical viewfinder, is its lack
of feedback. (For instance, one can't tell whether the subject is in
focus.)

I suspect that this drawaback would be magnified, on a "super zoom"
model.

--
Cordially,
John Turco

You won't find any P&S super-zoom cameras with an optical finder, as the
10:1 or greater zoom would require a lens as complex as the main lens,
ruling it out on both size and cost basis. Indeed, for me, one problem
with optical finders in general is the lack of focus indication, and the
parallax error. The ones I recall using didn't have a dioptre adjustment
capability either.

Cheers,
David

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:06:36 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

On 8/17/2010 10:01 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:11:01 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:




Ten years ago Panasonic was shipping cameras with 0.19 inch EVFs. The
Epson EVF is .47 inch, more than twice as large.

But with much better resolution.

It is still larger. You are arguing that somehow by some magic they had
made it smaller, they did not.

What makes you think
that "newer technology" will make something that you have to be able to
see with your eyes smaller?
It is called magnification.

There are limits to magnification.

Just the way technology is evolving.

Yeah, they've doubled the size of the EVF in only ten years.

So here is my prediction. A pocketable (4x3x1 inch) 12x zoom(or larger)
with EVF built in will be on the market within 5 years. Probably coming
from some maker like Ricoh.

So where will they put the EVF?

So what is your prediction?

That you are going to still be peddling this twaddle five years from now.

Seems Fuji have moved us one step nearer with their latest camera.

http://forums.dpreview.com/news/1009...jifilmx100.asp

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:31:09 -0700, Irwell wrote:

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:06:36 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

On 8/17/2010 10:01 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:11:01 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:




Ten years ago Panasonic was shipping cameras with 0.19 inch EVFs. The
Epson EVF is .47 inch, more than twice as large.

But with much better resolution.

It is still larger. You are arguing that somehow by some magic they had
made it smaller, they did not.

What makes you think
that "newer technology" will make something that you have to be able to
see with your eyes smaller?
It is called magnification.

There are limits to magnification.

Just the way technology is evolving.

Yeah, they've doubled the size of the EVF in only ten years.

So here is my prediction. A pocketable (4x3x1 inch) 12x zoom(or larger)
with EVF built in will be on the market within 5 years. Probably coming
from some maker like Ricoh.

So where will they put the EVF?

So what is your prediction?

That you are going to still be peddling this twaddle five years from now.

Seems Fuji have moved us one step nearer with their latest camera.

http://forums.dpreview.com/news/1009...jifilmx100.asp

J.Clarke didn't believe it would happen.

So one is supposed to look down into the camera?
No maybe you should have a look at how the old rangefinder cameras
laid out the prisms, the eyepiece that the users looks into,
would be in the traditional place. the optics couple to the EVF
display matrix by right angled prisms, the .47 inch display matrix itself
would tuck into the side wall of the camera, connected with ribbon
cables to the main LCD.

So what is your prediction?

That you are going to still be peddling this twaddle five years from now.

On 9/20/2010 9:31 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:06:36 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

On 8/17/2010 10:01 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:11:01 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:




Ten years ago Panasonic was shipping cameras with 0.19 inch EVFs. The
Epson EVF is .47 inch, more than twice as large.

But with much better resolution.

It is still larger. You are arguing that somehow by some magic they had
made it smaller, they did not.

What makes you think
that "newer technology" will make something that you have to be able to
see with your eyes smaller?
It is called magnification.

There are limits to magnification.

Just the way technology is evolving.

Yeah, they've doubled the size of the EVF in only ten years.

So here is my prediction. A pocketable (4x3x1 inch) 12x zoom(or larger)
with EVF built in will be on the market within 5 years. Probably coming
from some maker like Ricoh.

So where will they put the EVF?

So what is your prediction?

That you are going to still be peddling this twaddle five years from now.

Seems Fuji have moved us one step nearer with their latest camera.

http://forums.dpreview.com/news/1009...jifilmx100.asp

How so? Its dimensions are 5x3x2 and it has a fixed 23mm focal length.
The "hybrid finder" only works because the focal length is fixed.
Height and width are not significantly smaller than a typical superzoom,
and thickness is only smaller because it's not a zoom. I can't see
where it brings you any closer to the objective that you stated than a
Leica M does.

On 9/20/2010 9:51 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:31:09 -0700, Irwell wrote:

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:06:36 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

On 8/17/2010 10:01 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:11:01 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:




Ten years ago Panasonic was shipping cameras with 0.19 inch EVFs. The
Epson EVF is .47 inch, more than twice as large.

But with much better resolution.

It is still larger. You are arguing that somehow by some magic they had
made it smaller, they did not.

What makes you think
that "newer technology" will make something that you have to be able to
see with your eyes smaller?
It is called magnification.

There are limits to magnification.

Just the way technology is evolving.

Yeah, they've doubled the size of the EVF in only ten years.

So here is my prediction. A pocketable (4x3x1 inch) 12x zoom(or larger)
with EVF built in will be on the market within 5 years. Probably coming
from some maker like Ricoh.

So where will they put the EVF?

So what is your prediction?

That you are going to still be peddling this twaddle five years from now.

Seems Fuji have moved us one step nearer with their latest camera.

http://forums.dpreview.com/news/1009...jifilmx100.asp

J.Clarke didn't believe it would happen.

Didn't believe what would happen?

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 23:44:06 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

On 9/20/2010 9:31 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:06:36 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

On 8/17/2010 10:01 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:11:01 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:




Ten years ago Panasonic was shipping cameras with 0.19 inch EVFs. The
Epson EVF is .47 inch, more than twice as large.

But with much better resolution.

It is still larger. You are arguing that somehow by some magic they had
made it smaller, they did not.

What makes you think
that "newer technology" will make something that you have to be able to
see with your eyes smaller?
It is called magnification.

There are limits to magnification.

Just the way technology is evolving.

Yeah, they've doubled the size of the EVF in only ten years.

So here is my prediction. A pocketable (4x3x1 inch) 12x zoom(or larger)
with EVF built in will be on the market within 5 years. Probably coming
from some maker like Ricoh.

So where will they put the EVF?

So what is your prediction?

That you are going to still be peddling this twaddle five years from now.

Seems Fuji have moved us one step nearer with their latest camera.

http://forums.dpreview.com/news/1009...jifilmx100.asp

How so? Its dimensions are 5x3x2 and it has a fixed 23mm focal length.
The "hybrid finder" only works because the focal length is fixed.
Height and width are not significantly smaller than a typical superzoom,
and thickness is only smaller because it's not a zoom. I can't see
where it brings you any closer to the objective that you stated than a
Leica M does.

Nonsense, take a look at the graphics.

On 9/21/2010 10:58 AM, Irwell wrote:
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 23:44:06 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

On 9/20/2010 9:31 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:06:36 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

On 8/17/2010 10:01 PM, Irwell wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:11:01 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:




Ten years ago Panasonic was shipping cameras with 0.19 inch EVFs. The
Epson EVF is .47 inch, more than twice as large.

But with much better resolution.

It is still larger. You are arguing that somehow by some magic they had
made it smaller, they did not.

What makes you think
that "newer technology" will make something that you have to be able to
see with your eyes smaller?
It is called magnification.

There are limits to magnification.

Just the way technology is evolving.

Yeah, they've doubled the size of the EVF in only ten years.

So here is my prediction. A pocketable (4x3x1 inch) 12x zoom(or larger)
with EVF built in will be on the market within 5 years. Probably coming
from some maker like Ricoh.

So where will they put the EVF?

So what is your prediction?

That you are going to still be peddling this twaddle five years from now.

Seems Fuji have moved us one step nearer with their latest camera.

http://forums.dpreview.com/news/1009...jifilmx100.asp

How so? Its dimensions are 5x3x2 and it has a fixed 23mm focal length.
The "hybrid finder" only works because the focal length is fixed.
Height and width are not significantly smaller than a typical superzoom,
and thickness is only smaller because it's not a zoom. I can't see
where it brings you any closer to the objective that you stated than a
Leica M does.

Nonsense, take a look at the graphics.

There's a digital Graphic?