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Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 6th 08, 09:50 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Dave[_27_]
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Posts: 149
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

Is it possible to get a numerical value for the colour temperature on a
D3? I know it's possible to photograph a gray card and use that to get
the colour temperature stored in d-0, but can one see what that value is
- i.e. how many Kelvin?

If it is, please share the secret.

dave

  #2  
Old September 7th 08, 03:00 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Dave[_27_]
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Posts: 149
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

Rita Berkowitz wrote:
Dave wrote:

Is it possible to get a numerical value for the colour temperature on
a D3? I know it's possible to photograph a gray card and use that to
get the colour temperature stored in d-0, but can one see what that
value is - i.e. how many Kelvin?

If it is, please share the secret.


Don't think so. I spent about five minutes looking for the same thing when
I got my D3. I guess it's really not important?



Rita


Strange we both wanted to find it though. I can't believe it would be
anything but trivual to implement when a new firmware release is made. I
might ask Nikon if they have any plans for it.

dave
  #3  
Old September 7th 08, 09:17 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

Dave wrote:
Rita Berkowitz wrote:
Dave wrote:

Is it possible to get a numerical value for the colour temperature on
a D3? I know it's possible to photograph a gray card and use that to
get the colour temperature stored in d-0, but can one see what that
value is - i.e. how many Kelvin?

If it is, please share the secret.

Don't think so. I spent about five minutes looking
for the same thing when
I got my D3. I guess it's really not important?
Rita


Strange we both wanted to find it though. I can't believe it would be
anything but trivual to implement when a new firmware release is made. I
might ask Nikon if they have any plans for it.


If you put the camera into Auto mode for White Balance, the data
to calculate Color Temperature will be retained in the Exif data.
(If you use any of the preset WB selections, the data for that
selection will be retained, and what the camera calculates will
not be saved.)

This is Exif data from a Nikon D3 NEF file:

Color Balance 1 : 1.765625 1.6015625 1 1

WB GRBG Levels : 256 452 410 256

Blue Balance : 1.601563
Red Balance : 1.765625

Note that the same information is retain by three different
methods.

If you want to convert from those values to color temperature,
the information necessary can be found on this web page:

http://www.brucelindbloom.com/

(Not that *I* understand how to do it from what is given on
that web page... :-)

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #4  
Old September 7th 08, 08:48 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

"Rita Berkowitz" wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Strange we both wanted to find it though. I can't believe it would be
anything but trivual to implement when a new firmware release is
made. I might ask Nikon if they have any plans for it.


If you put the camera into Auto mode for White Balance, the data
to calculate Color Temperature will be retained in the Exif data.
(If you use any of the preset WB selections, the data for that
selection will be retained, and what the camera calculates will
not be saved.)


Thanks Floyd, but that wasn't what we (I) were looking for.


But it explains what you didn't understand. If you want
to go through the tedious process of finding out exactly
what the color temperature is, you can. It's a waste of
time though, because the information is not particularly
useful.

The goal was to
find out if it is possible to have the WB displayed in Kelvin and BIAS on
camera instead of looking at this info in post.


There is no display of the color temperature of White
Balance as measured by the camera. (I had thought you
understood that.)

For Auto-WB, I have my D3
set to "B1" in the BIAS.


Nothing is labeled as "BIAS". I assume you mean that you
adjusted the Amber/Blue balance offset to B1 for AUTO.

Do you have it set to B1 for a reason, or is that just
where it happens to be, by hook or by crook?

Do you have any idea what that does?
Do you typically shoot with WB set to "AUTO"?
And do you typically shoot JPEG or RAW?

It would be nice to know in real time the Kelvin
value and of what the camera interprets the WB to be.


Why? It's virtually meaningless information when
adjusting the camera.

It has some small value (as a reference index, not as an
actual measure of color temperature) when converting RAW
data to an image format.

It seems Nikon
doesn't feel the need to supply us this information. And really, when
shooting Auto-WB there's not much one can adjust on the fly, other than BIAS


There is no "BIAS" adjustment. I assume you mean the
fine tuning adjustements for Amber-Blue and
Green-Magenta.

The Amber-Blue adjustment increments approximately 5
mireds per unit. The Green-Magenta adjustment is
similar to Color Compensating filters. (Read pages 148
and 149 of the D3 manual.)

Which is to say that the "temperature" change will be
different depending on the actual temperature, and a
single increment is intended instead to have about an
equal effect on our perception of how much the color
changes.

to tweak to personal taste. In other words, there's nothing one can do with
this information while hitting the shutter release.


Bingo! It's worthless information.

Just as a hint... if you set WB to a specific color
temperature, be aware that the values given by Nikon
do not necessarily match the White Balance values that
are then provided in the Exif data as calculated per
the information I cited previously.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #5  
Old September 8th 08, 06:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

"Rita Berkowitz" wrote:
Nothing is labeled as "BIAS". I assume you mean that you
adjusted the Amber/Blue balance offset to B1 for AUTO.


You're right when looking at the in-camera menu. The Blue/Amber settings
show in the EXIF as BIAS.


Perhaps on whatever oddball program you are using to
look at Exif data, but Nikon doesn't call it "BIAS" (so
it isn't), and neither does Exif (see below).

Do you have it set to B1 for a reason, or is that just
where it happens to be, by hook or by crook?


No accident at all as it is intentionally set that way. The added blue
helps the skin tones to be more accurate when shooting with Picture control
in "D2XMODE1" as I do in one of my shooting banks for a targeted audience.
This has eliminated most if not all post processing as the JPG files are
uploaded straight from the camera. Yes, I do simultaneously shoot RAW+JPEG.
Nothing lost nothing wasted.

Do you have any idea what that does?
Do you typically shoot with WB set to "AUTO"?
And do you typically shoot JPEG or RAW?


See above. Auto-WB is used in that one shooting bank. Honestly, Nikon has
nailed Auto-WB really close. It can be used in most situation though I
always prefer manually setting it.


If you shoot RAW it is a waste to use anything other
than AUTO for WB. With AUTO you get the data for
whatever the camera calculated it to be, with anything
else that data is discarded, and the data for whatever
you set is kept as the Exif data instead. Of course
with RAW it isn't used at all by the camera, and your
RAW converter can use any of the presets regardless of
what the camera was set to, except it can't use the
camera's idea of AUTO WB unless that data is saved via
setting it to AUTO.

There is no "BIAS" adjustment. I assume you mean the
fine tuning adjustements for Amber-Blue and
Green-Magenta.


Yes, I was referencing how it is stored in the EXIF.


That is not how it is stored in Exif. It has a tag (and
index number), and the official tag name is
"WhiteBalanceFineTune", which is commonly labeled as
"White Balance Fine Tune" of course.

Just as a hint... if you set WB to a specific color
temperature, be aware that the values given by Nikon
do not necessarily match the White Balance values that
are then provided in the Exif data as calculated per
the information I cited previously.


Does this mean Nikon is wrong or the calculations you referenced?


I don't know!

I do know that UFRAW references that web page, and that
given the preset Kelvin color temperatures, UFRAW will
display a slightly different temperature from the Nikon
produced White Balance data. The author of UFRAW isn't
claiming to know which is correct either, or that either
one of them is necessarily right or wrong at all.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #6  
Old September 8th 08, 07:06 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
John Smith[_5_]
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Posts: 161
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

You mean to tell me that my Spot Meter in my D3 is useless when shooting
RAW? I haven't found that to be the case at all...


"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...

If you shoot RAW it is a waste to use anything other
than AUTO for WB. With AUTO you get the data for
whatever the camera calculated it to be, with anything
else that data is discarded, and the data for whatever
you set is kept as the Exif data instead. Of course
with RAW it isn't used at all by the camera, and your
RAW converter can use any of the presets regardless of
what the camera was set to, except it can't use the
camera's idea of AUTO WB unless that data is saved via
setting it to AUTO.



  #7  
Old September 8th 08, 07:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

"John Smith" wrote:
You mean to tell me that my Spot Meter in my D3 is useless when shooting
RAW? I haven't found that to be the case at all...


The spot meter has nothing to do with White Balance,
AUTO or otherwise.

Spot metering is one of the modes for measuring light *intensity*.

White Balance is for measuring light *color* *temperature*.

Vastly difference tools...

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...

If you shoot RAW it is a waste to use anything other
than AUTO for WB. With AUTO you get the data for
whatever the camera calculated it to be, with anything
else that data is discarded, and the data for whatever
you set is kept as the Exif data instead. Of course
with RAW it isn't used at all by the camera, and your
RAW converter can use any of the presets regardless of
what the camera was set to, except it can't use the
camera's idea of AUTO WB unless that data is saved via
setting it to AUTO.


--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #8  
Old September 8th 08, 07:51 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Paul Furman
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Posts: 7,367
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
"John Smith" wrote:
You mean to tell me that my Spot Meter in my D3 is useless when shooting
RAW? I haven't found that to be the case at all...


The spot meter has nothing to do with White Balance,
AUTO or otherwise.

Spot metering is one of the modes for measuring light *intensity*.

White Balance is for measuring light *color* *temperature*.

Vastly difference tools...

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...
If you shoot RAW it is a waste to use anything other
than AUTO for WB. With AUTO you get the data for
whatever the camera calculated it to be, with anything
else that data is discarded, and the data for whatever
you set is kept as the Exif data instead. Of course
with RAW it isn't used at all by the camera, and your
RAW converter can use any of the presets regardless of
what the camera was set to, except it can't use the
camera's idea of AUTO WB unless that data is saved via
setting it to AUTO.


It is true that Nikon's auto WB on the D200 & D700 is a lot better than
Photoshop CS1's auto WB in my experience.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
  #9  
Old September 8th 08, 06:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
John Smith[_5_]
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Posts: 161
Default Can one measure colour temperature with the Nikon D3?

Oops, my mistake. I misread your post. My apologies.


"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...
"John Smith" wrote:
You mean to tell me that my Spot Meter in my D3 is useless when shooting
RAW? I haven't found that to be the case at all...


The spot meter has nothing to do with White Balance,
AUTO or otherwise.

Spot metering is one of the modes for measuring light *intensity*.

White Balance is for measuring light *color* *temperature*.

Vastly difference tools...

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...

If you shoot RAW it is a waste to use anything other
than AUTO for WB. With AUTO you get the data for
whatever the camera calculated it to be, with anything
else that data is discarded, and the data for whatever
you set is kept as the Exif data instead. Of course
with RAW it isn't used at all by the camera, and your
RAW converter can use any of the presets regardless of
what the camera was set to, except it can't use the
camera's idea of AUTO WB unless that data is saved via
setting it to AUTO.


--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)



 




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