Lens recommendations?

According to Jeremy Nixon :
Pete D wrote:

It does, though a proper focusing screen would be much better. After all,
you don't get the dot *or* the arrows if the AF sensors don't work.

Well actually some cameras still give the indication of focus even when
using manual focus, this includes on non AF lenses.

Of course they do, that's what I said. But they *don't* do it when the
AF sensors don't work. Which is exactly when you're forced to use manual
focus.

Well ... the *sensors* are just focus sensors -- somewhere in the
pentaprism area. The lens which I described (80-200mm f4.5) is too old
to have the mechanics of autofocus installed, to manual focus is the
*only* choice with it. It is an AI lens *only* (mechanical tabs
machined into the aperture ring to couple with the body -- long prior to
autofocus being built into lenses.

The focus sensors in the camera *do* work, as I indicated, even
though there is no autofocus support built into the lens -- no chip
(with its contacts) to tell the metering system what the maximum
aperture or focal length are, and neither a motor (Ultrasonic, built
into the lens), nor mechanical gearing to accept focus drive from the
"screwdriver" built into the lens mount ring on the body.

The focus *sensors* can talk to the autofocus mechanism in the
lens, or the motor in the body to accomplish autofocus -- or, if the
lens has nothing to work with this (such as the lens which I was
describing, or the 180mm f2.8 which had a chip added as a retrofit, so
the metering works with the D70, but it still has no autofocus
mechanism), it still can drive the "green dot" focus indicator. This
simply leaves me needing a separate exposure meter with that 80-200mm
f4.5 zoom lens -- or some trial shots and chimping with the histogram
offering assistance, if I have time for that approach.

I can do without the autofocus more easily than I can without
the built-in exposure metering for quick shots. Obviously, for
carefully set up shots, the choice might favor the presence of autofocus
over metering, except that the autofocus seems to *require* the built-in
metering

This metering is one thing which may drive me to the D200
eventually. Longer lenses (the 200mm end of that zoom, or the 180mm of
the single focal length) make focusing, even with the standard screen,
fairly quick and easy in reasonable light -- and the 180mm needs less
light to be reasonable (with its f2.8) than the zoom with its f4.5.

Enjoy,
DoN.
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... the *sensors* are just focus sensors -- somewhere in the
pentaprism area. The lens which I described (80-200mm f4.5) is too old
to have the mechanics of autofocus installed, to manual focus is the
*only* choice with it. It is an AI lens *only* (mechanical tabs
machined into the aperture ring to couple with the body -- long prior to
autofocus being built into lenses.

Yes, I'm familiar with them and have several.

The focus sensors in the camera *do* work, as I indicated, even
though there is no autofocus support built into the lens

They work, except when they don't work, which is when the green light won't
be of any use. I'm starting to wonder why this is such a difficult concept
to get across? Sometimes the AF sensors don't work. There may not be
enough light, or enough contrast. When that happens, even if you have an
autofocus lens mounted, you must focus manually, and it is that time when
the green-light focus indication will not be useful because it will not
work. But an optical focus indication on the focusing screen will work.

The focus indication light only works in situations when autofocus would
work, if you had an autofocus lens mounted.

This metering is one thing which may drive me to the D200
eventually.

Yes, it was a major benefit of upgrading to the D2x from the D70.

--
Jeremy |

According to Jeremy Nixon :
DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... the *sensors* are just focus sensors -- somewhere in the
pentaprism area. The lens which I described (80-200mm f4.5) is too old
to have the mechanics of autofocus installed, to manual focus is the
*only* choice with it. It is an AI lens *only* (mechanical tabs
machined into the aperture ring to couple with the body -- long prior to
autofocus being built into lenses.

Yes, I'm familiar with them and have several.

The focus sensors in the camera *do* work, as I indicated, even
though there is no autofocus support built into the lens

They work, except when they don't work, which is when the green light won't
be of any use. I'm starting to wonder why this is such a difficult concept
to get across? Sometimes the AF sensors don't work. There may not be
enough light, or enough contrast. When that happens, even if you have an
autofocus lens mounted, you must focus manually, and it is that time when
the green-light focus indication will not be useful because it will not
work. But an optical focus indication on the focusing screen will work.

O.K. *Now* I understand what you were trying to say. Before,
there was not enough detail to make it obvious that this was what you
were talking about, and it seemed that you were talking about something
different.

FWIW -- one thing which can cause the sensors to not work is too
small a maximum aperture -- which can also blank out half of a
split-image focusing aid in the center, and gray out a microprism
focusing aid ring as well. For that, you are stuck relying on whatever
ground-glass focusing aids may be offered.

FWIW, low light alone does not seem to do it, as I just got good
results from it with the same 80-200mm f 4.5 lens with an exposure of
1/2 second f 4.5 at ISO 1600. That exposure was enough to bring the
brighter part of the image to just before the last scale bar on the
histogram, so it could have benefited from even lower shutter speeds.
(And the object was about 15 feet away.)

The focus indication light only works in situations when autofocus would
work, if you had an autofocus lens mounted.

Low contrast and lack of detail, such as an all white cat in dim
light of course generates such problems. But the visual focusing will
not work very well on that either -- with either split-image or
microprism focusing aids

This metering is one thing which may drive me to the D200
eventually.

Yes, it was a major benefit of upgrading to the D2x from the D70.

If I could even *think* of affording the D2x, I would be going
there. As it is, the D200 seems to be a reasonable compromise.

Enjoy,
DoN.
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"Jeremy Nixon" wrote in message
...
Pete D wrote:

Of course they do, that's what I said. But they *don't* do it when the
AF sensors don't work. Which is exactly when you're forced to use
manual
focus.

No, mine work all the time no matter if I have manual focus switched off
or
on, all the time.

Of course they do, that's what I said. But I am sure yours *do not* work
when the AF sensors don't work, because that would be physically
impossible.
Having manual focus switched off or on has no bearing on it.

I think I sort of understand what you are trying to say now
but...................

DoN. Nichols wrote:

FWIW, low light alone does not seem to do it, as I just got good
results from it with the same 80-200mm f 4.5 lens with an exposure of
1/2 second f 4.5 at ISO 1600.

It depends on the target also, of course. I've had it fail when in the
realm of 1/30 at f/1.2 with boosted ISO. More common is having it
stubbornly refuse to lock onto where you want to focus, but insist on
focusing somewhere else. Sometimes (when actually using AF) it just
hunts back and forth and gives up. Sometimes there is something that
you could target for focus, if only you had time to find it before
the shot was gone.

To me, the lack of a good focusing screen is the biggest problem with
my camera. I'm sick of blowing shots that I could have gotten if only
I had a real focusing screen.

If I could even *think* of affording the D2x, I would be going
there. As it is, the D200 seems to be a reasonable compromise.

Being single, and thus not having to worry about things like a nice
yard or good furniture, helps quite a lot there.

--
Jeremy |

Well actually some cameras still give the indication of focus even
when
using manual focus, this includes on non AF lenses.

Of course they do, that's what I said. But they *don't* do it when
the
AF sensors don't work. Which is exactly when you're forced to use
manual
focus.

That's a bit misleading. There are plety of situations where I might
use manual focus even though AF would be functional. For instance, the
scene might be complex enough that it's easier to focus manually than to
try to persuade AF to focus on the specific element in the scene I am
interested in. Or, I might have a old manual focus prime that is
sharper and/or faster than any of my AF lenses, so I'm using it and
dealing with manual focus even when AF would have worked just fine. So
I find this feature quite useful.

---------------
Marc Sabatella


Music, art, & educational materials
Featuring "A Jazz Improvisation Primer"
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

This metering is one thing which may drive me to the D200
eventually.

I never had metering issues but the D200 viewfinder is SO much nicer for
manual focusing & DOF preview! The DOF preview on my D70 was essentially
unusable because things got too dark stopped down. All around a very
nice upgrade except the big file sizes g.

Longer lenses (the 200mm end of that zoom, or the 180mm of
the single focal length) make focusing, even with the standard screen,
fairly quick and easy in reasonable light -- and the 180mm needs less
light to be reasonable (with its f2.8) than the zoom with its f4.5.

Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:

Paul wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

This metering is one thing which may drive me to the D200
eventually.

I never had metering issues but the D200 viewfinder is SO much nicer for
manual focusing & DOF preview! The DOF preview on my D70 was essentially
unusable because things got too dark stopped down. All around a very
nice upgrade except the big file sizes g.

I believe DoN was talking about the ability to use non chipped lenses with
the D200 because you can enter the max aperture into the camera vis the
menus.

Yeah I'm looking at a 35mm f/2 for $130 now instead of an $800 35mm f/1.4

Don't forget you can always use the compressed NEF format if you
find yourself in a place with limited storage.

I just did that an hour ago. CS2 is going to cost $600 though so I
haven't even fiddled with the RAW files yet.

Marc Sabatella wrote:

That's a bit misleading. There are plety of situations where I might
use manual focus even though AF would be functional.

I said "forced" to use it, not "choose" to use it.

Or, I might have a old manual focus prime that is sharper and/or faster
than any of my AF lenses, so I'm using it and dealing with manual focus
even when AF would have worked just fine. So I find this feature quite
useful.

So do I. But it's not even close to a replacement for a decent focusing
screen.

--
Jeremy |

According to Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) :
On Thu, 04 May 2006 21:45:34 GMT, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Paul
Furman wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

This metering is one thing which may drive me to the D200
eventually.

I never had metering issues but the D200 viewfinder is SO much nicer for
manual focusing & DOF preview! The DOF preview on my D70 was essentially
unusable because things got too dark stopped down. All around a very
nice upgrade except the big file sizes g.

A brighter and better focusing screen is a significant benefit
to look forward to.

I believe DoN was talking about the ability to use non chipped lenses with
the D200 because you can enter the max aperture into the camera vis the
menus.

Exactly -- I have quite a few non-chipped lenses which I would
like to use with the camera's metering, instead of either being forced
back to a hand-held meter, or to chimping and re-shooting (which can
work for stationary subjects, but which is a real pain otherwise.

Don't forget you can always use the compressed NEF format if you
find yourself in a place with limited storage.

That is another possible benefit to attract me to the D200.

Enjoy,
DoN.



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Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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