weight of my water

Since the times I'm using in developing films are always shorter of
the ones in Digitaltruth, I took infos on the quality of the water
coming out from my house.
It's heavy, very heavy.

So yesterday I bought 15 litres of distilled water (it costs me about
0.80$ for 4 litres).
Next time I'm going to use it to mix ID-11.

Is it right? Or is it better to buy a specific filter for darkroom
use?

Are the times for distilled water different from Digitaltruth's ones?

From Italy.

......................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

Water quality is always a variable. III suspect a lot of "serious" darkroom
workers use distilled water for mixing developers. And try to always get
their distilled water from the same source!

The times in Digital Truth (or any published times for that matter) can only
be regarded as a point of departure for any user since your agitation
pattern, equipment, personal preferences (and of course water quality!) will
affect your final negative contrast and density.

--
darkroommike

----------
"whitewave" wrote in message
...
Since the times I'm using in developing films are always shorter of
the ones in Digitaltruth, I took infos on the quality of the water
coming out from my house.
It's heavy, very heavy.

So yesterday I bought 15 litres of distilled water (it costs me about
0.80$ for 4 litres).
Next time I'm going to use it to mix ID-11.

Is it right? Or is it better to buy a specific filter for darkroom
use?

Are the times for distilled water different from Digitaltruth's ones?

From Italy.

.....................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

"whitewave" wrote

I took infos on the quality of the water coming out from my house.
It's heavy, very heavy.

I take it that 'heavy' means 'hard': lots of calcium etc.

So yesterday I bought 15 litres of distilled water

Is it right? Or is it better to buy a specific filter for darkroom
use?

A filter will not get rid of dissolved minerals. A water softener will
trade calcium for sodium and you will get salt water. Salt should result in
finer grain ... ?

Are the times for distilled water different from Digitaltruth's ones?

DT's times should be (or so one hopes) for very pure/distilled water.

If the water quality is effecting development then the effect will not
be constant. Water quality varies with time of year, temperature,
how much algae & bacteria is in the water, how much chlorine added ....

In Cleveland the variation is profound. Since switching to distilled
my negative consistency is all I can ask for. Before the switch I
cursed the developer, the film, my light-meter, the shutter, the
camera, the lens and myself for not being able to produce a
consistently well exposed/developed negative.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

"whitewave" wrote

I took infos on the quality of the water coming out from my house.
It's heavy, very heavy.

I take it that 'heavy' means 'hard': lots of calcium etc.

So yesterday I bought 15 litres of distilled water

Is it right? Or is it better to buy a specific filter for darkroom
use?

A filter will not get rid of dissolved minerals. A water softener will
trade calcium for sodium and you will get salt water. Salt should result in
finer grain ... ?

Are the times for distilled water different from Digitaltruth's ones?

DT's times should be (or so one hopes) for very pure/distilled water.

If the water quality is effecting development then the effect will not
be constant. Water quality varies with time of year, temperature,
how much algae & bacteria is in the water, how much chlorine added ....

In Cleveland the variation is profound. Since switching to distilled
my negative consistency is all I can ask for. Before the switch I
cursed the developer, the film, my light-meter, the shutter, the
camera, the lens and myself for not being able to produce a
consistently well exposed/developed negative.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

whitewave wrote:

Since the times I'm using in developing films are always shorter of
the ones in Digitaltruth, I took infos on the quality of the water
coming out from my house.
It's heavy, very heavy.

So yesterday I bought 15 litres of distilled water (it costs me about
0.80$ for 4 litres).
Next time I'm going to use it to mix ID-11.

Is it right? Or is it better to buy a specific filter for darkroom
use?

Are the times for distilled water different from Digitaltruth's ones?

Distilled water is the best for developing, and for the price it's a
bargain.

I use commercially filtered water -- reverse osmosis, activated
charcoal, and sub-micron particulate filtered -- with good results for
about half the price of distilled, but depending on the local water
supply used to feed the filtration dispenser, the result might or might
not be acceptable for photography (areas with a lot of iron in the
water, for instance, might see enough of it get through the filters to
cause problems). Setting up this kind of filtration for whole house is
hideously expensive, though -- reverse osmosis filters are quite spendy
-- but it might be practical to set up an under-sink unit for darkroom
use only; expect to spend more than $500 (US) or equivalent, and take
many years to pay it back in hobby use compared to the price of
distilled water from the market.

Simpler and cheaper is to buy a commercial distiller made for
drinking/cooking water; a unit that will produce 10 liters a day should
cost less than $200, possibly as little as $100 (maybe even less where
you are -- at least one such unit I'm aware of was made in Italy, if
it's still in production), and with regular cleaning will produce water
at least as good as what you get in those plastic jugs -- and let you
keep 20 liters or more on hand if you want/need that much; operating
costs are such that after you work off the cost of the unit (and they'll
last decades with a little maintenance) you can produce water for a few
cents a liter (at least at American power rates -- I don't know what you
pay for electricity in Italy). The unit looks like a large coffee urn,
all stainless steel, and can be installed under a counter etc., as long
as there's room to get a jug under the tap for filling and to pull it
out for periodic cleaning.

Distilled water might produce a change in times compared to what you've
been using, but the times on Digitaltruth are just starting times
anyway; you should expect to have to adjust those times for your
particular thermometer, agitation technique, water purity, even purity
of chemicals and measuring techniques if you mix your own developers.
Add to that your metering technique that might require adjustment of
both EI and developing times to compensate, and you can see that it's
impossible to say with confidence whether you'll need to change the
times you get from the Massive Dev Chart -- but distilled water, in and
of itself, shouldn't make a big difference.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

whitewave wrote:

Since the times I'm using in developing films are always shorter of
the ones in Digitaltruth, I took infos on the quality of the water
coming out from my house.
It's heavy, very heavy.

So yesterday I bought 15 litres of distilled water (it costs me about
0.80$ for 4 litres).
Next time I'm going to use it to mix ID-11.

Is it right? Or is it better to buy a specific filter for darkroom
use?

Are the times for distilled water different from Digitaltruth's ones?

Distilled water is the best for developing, and for the price it's a
bargain.

I use commercially filtered water -- reverse osmosis, activated
charcoal, and sub-micron particulate filtered -- with good results for
about half the price of distilled, but depending on the local water
supply used to feed the filtration dispenser, the result might or might
not be acceptable for photography (areas with a lot of iron in the
water, for instance, might see enough of it get through the filters to
cause problems). Setting up this kind of filtration for whole house is
hideously expensive, though -- reverse osmosis filters are quite spendy
-- but it might be practical to set up an under-sink unit for darkroom
use only; expect to spend more than $500 (US) or equivalent, and take
many years to pay it back in hobby use compared to the price of
distilled water from the market.

Simpler and cheaper is to buy a commercial distiller made for
drinking/cooking water; a unit that will produce 10 liters a day should
cost less than $200, possibly as little as $100 (maybe even less where
you are -- at least one such unit I'm aware of was made in Italy, if
it's still in production), and with regular cleaning will produce water
at least as good as what you get in those plastic jugs -- and let you
keep 20 liters or more on hand if you want/need that much; operating
costs are such that after you work off the cost of the unit (and they'll
last decades with a little maintenance) you can produce water for a few
cents a liter (at least at American power rates -- I don't know what you
pay for electricity in Italy). The unit looks like a large coffee urn,
all stainless steel, and can be installed under a counter etc., as long
as there's room to get a jug under the tap for filling and to pull it
out for periodic cleaning.

Distilled water might produce a change in times compared to what you've
been using, but the times on Digitaltruth are just starting times
anyway; you should expect to have to adjust those times for your
particular thermometer, agitation technique, water purity, even purity
of chemicals and measuring techniques if you mix your own developers.
Add to that your metering technique that might require adjustment of
both EI and developing times to compensate, and you can see that it's
impossible to say with confidence whether you'll need to change the
times you get from the Massive Dev Chart -- but distilled water, in and
of itself, shouldn't make a big difference.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Hard water has one advantage to B&W photographers: it washes film faster
than soft water. So if you want to save some of the precious
filtered/distilled, then use hard water to wash, then do a final brief rinse
in filtered water.

Hard water has one advantage to B&W photographers: it washes film faster
than soft water. So if you want to save some of the precious
filtered/distilled, then use hard water to wash, then do a final brief rinse
in filtered water.

jjs wrote:

Hard water has one advantage to B&W photographers: it washes film faster
than soft water. So if you want to save some of the precious
filtered/distilled, then use hard water to wash, then do a final brief rinse
in filtered water.

Well, but with the disadvantage that hard water is guaranteed to spot if
it dries on your film -- alkalinity improves washing, but you can
alkalize wash water (if needed) with a little baking soda. Better still
to use an alkaline fixer, to gain the fast wash, and wash with distilled
or reverse osmosis filtered water. If you use the Ilford method to
wash, you can archivally wash and PhotoFlo treat two rolls of 120 or
four rolls of 35 mm in a 32 ounce tank with one gallon of distilled or
filtered water, costing between 35 and 90 cents. The Ilford wash takes
less than five minutes (fill, invert five times, dump; fill, invert ten
times, dump; fill, invert 20 times, dump, and PhotoFlo with fresh
water). Nothing gained by using hard water, and too much risk of
leaving a little calcium carbonate on the film to dry...


--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

jjs wrote:

Hard water has one advantage to B&W photographers: it washes film faster
than soft water. So if you want to save some of the precious
filtered/distilled, then use hard water to wash, then do a final brief rinse
in filtered water.

Well, but with the disadvantage that hard water is guaranteed to spot if
it dries on your film -- alkalinity improves washing, but you can
alkalize wash water (if needed) with a little baking soda. Better still
to use an alkaline fixer, to gain the fast wash, and wash with distilled
or reverse osmosis filtered water. If you use the Ilford method to
wash, you can archivally wash and PhotoFlo treat two rolls of 120 or
four rolls of 35 mm in a 32 ounce tank with one gallon of distilled or
filtered water, costing between 35 and 90 cents. The Ilford wash takes
less than five minutes (fill, invert five times, dump; fill, invert ten
times, dump; fill, invert 20 times, dump, and PhotoFlo with fresh
water). Nothing gained by using hard water, and too much risk of
leaving a little calcium carbonate on the film to dry...


--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.