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Digital camera (P&S or DSLR) with built in HDR feature



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 12th 07, 06:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Paul Furman
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Posts: 7,367
Default Digital camera (P&S or DSLR) with built in HDR feature

ray wrote:

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:08:31 -0700, aniramca wrote:

I am just wondering whether HDR feature can be embedded in their image
processing (or using a special sensor) in a digital camera. Is this
possible? Will it likely be included in future cameras - just another
feature or option before taking the photos? Or is such a digital
camera already here? I know some people will ask this necessity as
there are softwares (photoshop CS, Photomatix, and many others) that
can do this job as a post processing. It is fine for them who spend
hundred of hours playing around with 20 MB RAW photo files, and do a
lot of post processing, etc. Unfortunately, there are likely others
like me who must do something else to make a living (i.e. not a
professional) and there are not enough hours in a day to spend the
time post-processing photos. If I have to do this, it means that I
have to cut my sleep, or let the grass in my yard grows. (This is
another reason that I keep having a nagging question about the digital
camera which has better processing engine than the others, so that it
can give me the better quality and rich colour photos without spending
extra time to play around with in teh computer).
Thanks for info


Have you tried simply applying a curve correction to a raw file in
something like ufraw? It's not full blown hdr, but it can yield some
fairly impressive results - and it does not take very long - a metter of a
few seconds.


And it's possible to upload custom curves for in-camera jpeg processing
with Nikon cameras if you buy their additional software.

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com
  #12  
Old September 12th 07, 06:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Paul Furman
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Posts: 7,367
Default Digital camera (P&S or DSLR) with built in HDR feature

Paul Furman wrote:

Personally, I would find a clean fast ISO 6400 very useful


Check out the ISO 6400 sample he
http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/digitalcamera/slr/d3/sample.htm
  #13  
Old September 13th 07, 12:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
gowanoh
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Posts: 64
Default Digital camera (P&S or DSLR) with built in HDR feature

I think what the original post is about is why camera manufacturers are not
doing more to increase the pretty lame exposure latitude of current digital
sensors.
It is not clear that the new D3 sensor has any greater latitude or is
accomplishing its rumored ISO feats with improved data processing.
RAW formats allow, with much post exposure manipulation, the creation of
images with a greater apparent than real increase in latitude. You are
really bringing up the underexposed areas and trying to hide the noise. You
can do nothing with overexposed areas because of the limited exposure
latitude of digital sensors to over-exposure, which has been reported to be
as little as 1/10th of a stop. Sekonic uses that figure to try to sell
exposure meters so who knows if it is true or not. However it is obvious
from experience that current dSLRs have very, very limited latitude to
over-exposure.
Current in camera jpeg processing algorithms truncate image data to 8 bits
which in addition to limiting color gamut also limits exposure latitude even
further.
There have been a few announced patent filings that relate to this issue,
including the Kodak modification of the Beyer filter which, if it works,
would probably benefit low end more than high end sensors.


  #14  
Old September 13th 07, 10:40 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
bugbear
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Posts: 1,258
Default Digital camera (P&S or DSLR) with built in HDR feature

gowanoh wrote:
I think what the original post is about is why camera manufacturers are not
doing more to increase the pretty lame exposure latitude of current digital
sensors.
It is not clear that the new D3 sensor has any greater latitude or is
accomplishing its rumored ISO feats with improved data processing.
RAW formats allow, with much post exposure manipulation, the creation of
images with a greater apparent than real increase in latitude. You are
really bringing up the underexposed areas and trying to hide the noise. You
can do nothing with overexposed areas because of the limited exposure
latitude of digital sensors to over-exposure, which has been reported to be
as little as 1/10th of a stop.


That's most interesting; doing "full range" HDR involves
multiple bracketing shots, which may bring the aggregate
time to take the shot unacceptably high.

But taking an extra frame to ensure that highlights aren't
overexposed can, indeed must, be done with a shorter
exposure than the "main" frame.

Perhaps a single "bracket" shot, at +2 EV,
whilst not bringing true "HDR" (*), might
go a long way to prevent highlight-burn, after
suitable HDR-like processing?

BugBear

(*) of course some people don't like HDR,
or more particularly strangely tone-mapped
HDR's anyway.
  #15  
Old September 13th 07, 11:10 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,uk.rec.photo.misc,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.misc
Somebody
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Posts: 127
Default Digital camera (P&S or DSLR) with built in HDR feature

"gowanoh" wrote in message
...
I think what the original post is about is why camera manufacturers are not
doing more to increase the pretty lame exposure latitude of current digital
sensors.
It is not clear that the new D3 sensor has any greater latitude or is
accomplishing its rumored ISO feats with improved data processing.
RAW formats allow, with much post exposure manipulation, the creation of
images with a greater apparent than real increase in latitude. You are
really bringing up the underexposed areas and trying to hide the noise.
You can do nothing with overexposed areas because of the limited exposure
latitude of digital sensors to over-exposure, which has been reported to
be as little as 1/10th of a stop. Sekonic uses that figure to try to sell
exposure meters so who knows if it is true or not. However it is obvious
from experience that current dSLRs have very, very limited latitude to
over-exposure.
Current in camera jpeg processing algorithms truncate image data to 8 bits
which in addition to limiting color gamut also limits exposure latitude
even further.
There have been a few announced patent filings that relate to this issue,
including the Kodak modification of the Beyer filter which, if it works,
would probably benefit low end more than high end sensors.



They have or at least Fuji has. However at best the S3 and S5 are a nitch
market. I think the current sensor technology has given about all it can in
exposure range, noise and resolution. Sure companies are going to keep
milking it for ever buck they can get, but I think 10MP is about the limit
for the current sensors (if you want something tangible in return). If you
just want bragging rights then they should be able to push these to 50 or
60MP in a 2 oz compact point and shoot. Just don't expect much in picture
quality.

They might be able to push the current sensors more if they put in more
powerful processors and more memory for the camera to work on the images
with. Then something like in camera Noise Ninja would be possible and this
would let you get a little more out of the current technology without giving
up a whole lot in final image quality.

Personally however I don't think that the sensor technology is the only
thing that is about at its useful limit. I think the whole concept film
camera with digital filling has went about as far as it can go as well. We
really need to start looking at ways of doing away with the shutter, lenses,
etc. All of this type of stuff should be on the sensor. This would give you
a very powerful camera in a very small package. But, this won't happen
anytime soon either. Greedy companies like milking outdated technology for
every penny they can get. That is why most cars sold in the world still use
gas even though that technology like current camera technology (the basics
of it) are almost 100 years old and over 100 years old. Got to milk that cow
until dust comes out.

Somebody!

 




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