Insane new TSA rule for film inspection

dy (Bill Hilton) writes:

Anybody with a brain could also figure out how to open the
cannisters and put explosives in them too ... that's why they swab.

From: (Stephen H. Westin)

And anyone with such a brain would put the resulting device
through the X-ray machine rather than singling himself out
for attention by asking for a hand search.

I think the xray machine can tell if it fits the explosives profile
... otherwise the terrs would already be hand-carrying C4 on board,
no? That's why the TSA is worried about items that bypass the xray.

Or they would like you to think so. Or the people on the ground for
the TSA actually do think so. Remember the hoo-hah when it was
proposed to require high-school graduation to become a baggage
screener?

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

Richard Williams wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

How could it be worse, you ask?

Probably only if you were a British journalist flying into LA:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...231089,00.html

Nah. If she had been from a non-western country it would have
been far worse.


Richard.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Richard Williams wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

How could it be worse, you ask?

Probably only if you were a British journalist flying into LA:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...231089,00.html

Richard.

Wow. I almost don't know what to type as a response. I try to follow
Reporters sans Frontiers, yet I seem to have missed this one. Really
shocking behaviour. Thank you for sharing this report.

I live in California, though I am originally from Germany. I recall
growing up and hearing this sort of behaviour as common in some parts of
Latin America, Eastern Europe, and other places, basically some places
that were not the US, Canada, Australia, or Western Europe. I have gone
to high school and college in the US, and even briefly worked for the US
Government, yet I still find this type of behaviour almost unbelievable.

Obviously, the once noble profession of journalism has suffered a great
decline in the last six (or more) years. That governments, especially
the US, would place any restrictions or monitoring on journalists is a
disgrace to the principles of the US Constitution, especially the First
Amendment. While I understand that the Constitution does not apply to
citizens of other countries, how can the US claim to uphold "freedom of
expression" when it places restrictions on journalists.

All this makes me very sad that things have progressed this far. Even
worse is that I have no sense of increased security when I travel
anywhere in the US.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com
http://www.agstudiopro.com Coming Soon!

Lionel wrote:

Kibo informs me that ospam (Lewis Lang) stated that:

[...]
If the events are in or near major cities you could buy film there and/or how
about shooting 400 speed (and slower) film (could your lenses
apertures/technique handle the 1 stop drop in speed?) which might be less
sensitive to get by with no fogging after a couple of passes through
inspections lower dosed x-ray unit (forget about cargo's hand checked luggage
as they are supposed to have much more massive doses of x-rays there).

Do a test to see how much if any the x-ray passes affect your 800 spee film (or
400 speed film if you switch over to that). Why not _let_ a roll or five of
your 800 speed film go through the X-ray machine (place them in strategic
places in your bag and mark them "C" (Center of bag between clothes, gear,
[Huge, enormous snip]
to spare you from going over to "digimania" ;-).

Maybe there are even more way(s) around this Orwellian problem without having
to go digital or FedEx...

Jesus. I think I'll avoid the USA until all this insanity goes away.

There are still some very nice people, and very nice places to go in the US. It is
not a Police State (yet). Just be sure to avoid any major international summits
(G8, WTO, etc.), or an BioTech conferences, unless you really want trouble. Oh, and
don't try to photograph military bases from the fence lines.



Anybody else?

Wouldn't it be easier to either go digital, or just delay any air-travel
until monkey-boy's been voted out of office?

The system in the US is that laws are enacted in the Legislative Branch, which is
Congress and the Senate. The President can veto those laws, or sign them into law,
or just let them pass into law. Without going more into detail, a change in the
Executive Branch (President and Cabinet) is unlikely to reverse any laws that
currently exist, including the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security Bill (about 500
pages), and what is called Patriot Act II. The Judicial Branch in the US is the
third form of checks and balances of power, and it would be up to them to determine
the Constitutionality (or lack) of any new laws that are enacted.

Basically, you change the guy in the oval office, and it is unlikely to have any
impact on existing laws. The damage is already done. The only possible benefit of a
change in the Oval Office is that the outward perception of the US might change,
which theoretically could affect the value of the US Dollar. It is unfortunate that
so much attention is placed upon the President, and that aspect of the election,
that people overlook much that goes on in the Legislative and Judicial Branches.

There might be Constitutional challenges to the Patriot Act, though it is written
purposely in a manner in which all clauses would need to be individually considered
under any challenge of Constitutionality. The Homeland Security Act has similar
provisions, many of which were put in place from the original 32 page draft, to the
final 500 (approx.) pages. If you want to see how the US changes in the future,
watch what goes on in the Judicial Branch, though have patience, since these
challenges can take many years.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com
http://www.agstudiopro.com Coming Soon!

Stephen H. Westin wrote:
dy (Bill Hilton) writes:

Anybody with a brain could also figure out how to open the
cannisters and put explosives in them too ... that's why they swab.

From: (Stephen H. Westin)

And anyone with such a brain would put the resulting device
through the X-ray machine rather than singling himself out
for attention by asking for a hand search.

I think the xray machine can tell if it fits the explosives profile
... otherwise the terrs would already be hand-carrying C4 on board,
no? That's why the TSA is worried about items that bypass the xray.

Or they would like you to think so. Or the people on the ground for
the TSA actually do think so. Remember the hoo-hah when it was
proposed to require high-school graduation to become a baggage
screener?


All legit manufacturers of C4 (and other plastic explosives) include
by agreements special compounds in the explosives to make them
identifyable by sniffer dogs, etc. If that was not the case, swabbing
the film canisters would be very pointless.


--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Gordon Moat writes:

Without going more into detail, a change in the
Executive Branch (President and Cabinet) is unlikely to reverse any laws that
currently exist, including the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security Bill (about 500
pages), and what is called Patriot Act II.

A lot of law is established by Executive Order, and by various
administrative orders that don't involve any elected officials at all.

Congress has signed away a great deal of its authority to control the
force of law, giving many non-elected individuals and a handful of
elected officials much more legislative power than they were ever
intended to have. Eventually, Congress will establish a dictatorship,
as that is the tendency of most democracies over time. Democracies are
their own worst enemies.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

On 16 Jun 2004 12:13:23 -0400,
(Stephen H. Westin) wrote:

But won't that shipment be X-rayed? And quite possibly by something
much nastier than they would want to put in the terminal.

Wow...30+ comments already. I must have touched a nerve.

Several follow-ups:

1. I e-mailed ASMP's Exec Dir Eugene Mopsik, and he wrote back
immediately. He's going to forward myletter to his TSA contact and try
to get some answers. He also advised me that the ASMP main office
phone number listed on their web site is good. I tried it from my
office today and got through, but three attempts from Chicago only got
me an intercept saying it was kaput.

2. FedEx, to my knowledge, is the only carrier that does not x-ray. Or
at least they don't x-ray film. Or so I've been told. I don't know
what the USPS is doing these days, but I don't trust them or UPS.

3. Tom Daschle's what? Dude, don't make me laugh. All this fascistic
overreaction is directly courtesy of the right wing. The left wingers
are merely spineless accomplices. I'm an equal opportunity despiser,
so don't get me started on any of them.

4. Write my Congressman? Amazingly, my particular Congressman is one
of the few who've consistently resisted the lunacy. He's pretty much
outnumbered by about 400 votes. (P.S. to Dieter: I've written
President Bush many times, all of which I'm sure are now included in
my FBI file.)

5. Yes, I could buy film at the destination, but:

A) Have you ever tried to buy anything other than Kodak 400 at
Big Boulder, PA in the Poconos or in Cotati, Cal? C'mon, guys, not
every town has a pro shop. And even if they do...

B) I get most of my film for two bucks a roll. Ever price
p3200, or even a roll of Fuji Press 800x36, at a retail/pro shop?

C) Buying at the destination also takes additional time and
expense.

6. I don't ever recall hearing about explosives disguised in film.

7. Sabineellen wrote:

http://www.bok.bonnier.se/foton/abfo...ena_lappin.htm

That would mean that tens of millions of Americans look suspicious.

Uh, yeah. Bingo!

8. Bill Hilton wrote to Lionel:

Just how burdensome is it to wait an extra five minutes while they check your
film by hand? Big deal.

Five minutes? Bill, if it was only five minutes you never would have
seen a post from me. It was 20 minutes at Sea-Tac and nearly half an
hour at Midway.

9. I've received off-list e-mail from other photogs whose experiences
mirror mine. They're not happy, either. They're equally powerless to
do anything about it. What was that line from Jim Carrey in "Liar,
Liar?" Oh yeah...

Fletcher: "Why you.......you LIAR! You know what I'm going to do about
this?"

Attendant: "What?"

Fletcher: "Nothing. Because if I take you to small claims court it'll
just drain eight hours out of my life and you probably won't show up
and if I finally got the judgement you'd just stiff me anyway. So what
I'm GONNA DO is **** and moan like an impotent jerk and then bend over
and take it up the tailpipe!"

Attendant: "You've been here before haven't you?!"

Cheers,

JJ
(Personal replies: remove "unspam" from address)

Mxsmanic wrote:

Gordon Moat writes:

Without going more into detail, a change in the
Executive Branch (President and Cabinet) is unlikely to reverse any laws that
currently exist, including the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security Bill (about 500
pages), and what is called Patriot Act II.

A lot of law is established by Executive Order, and by various
administrative orders that don't involve any elected officials at all.

Congress has signed away a great deal of its authority to control the
force of law, giving many non-elected individuals and a handful of
elected officials much more legislative power than they were ever
intended to have. Eventually, Congress will establish a dictatorship,
as that is the tendency of most democracies over time. Democracies are
their own worst enemies.

The balance of power, and system of checks and balances, has suffered greatly in the
last ten years (or longer, depending upon system of reference). It is a shame, yet
history has shown the evolution of democracies, and they are never without problems.
This is a somewhat difficult time in which we live.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com
http://www.agstudiopro.com Coming Soon!

wrote:


4. Write my Congressman? Amazingly, my particular Congressman is one
of the few who've consistently resisted the lunacy. He's pretty much
outnumbered by about 400 votes. (P.S. to Dieter: I've written
President Bush many times, all of which I'm sure are now included in
my FBI file.)

Your congressman should be doing more than simply voting. He
should be communicating with whichever commitees are involved as
well as communicating with the TSA on your behalf. What
committee's is he on? There may be a happy coincidence (more
likely not).

I found your reply to all of us who tried to encourage you with
advice or at least a "hang in there buddy", to be a bit bitter.
We're not the ones causing you grief.

You're correct that you can't buy the specific films you want
just anywhere; OTOH you're the one who chooses to travel with
these films and unfortunately you're the one who has to plan
around it. If that means getting to security areas 20 minutes
earlier, then that's what it means. I commiserate with you. It
can be a real hassle in large airports where you can go through
security checks several times if you change concourses/terminals.

(Traveling with a radar system under Carnet and US customs on the
wrong side of the security area turned into a nightmare in
Orlando a couple years ago).

Cheers,
Alan.


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Mxsmanic wrote:

Hzakas writes:


I do agree with one respondent about writing the TSA, your local Congressman,
DHS director Tom Ridge, and maybe even President Bush. Taken individually, your
letter may not have much of an impact, but a collection of letters detailing
similar experiences by others may cause them to sit up and take notice.


The only thing they notice is votes.

Contribution$. Contribution$. Contribuition$.

That is all most politicians notice.



--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--