Dim Nikon viewfinder compared to Canon?

I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The optical
viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit brighter than either the
Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of the
cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and the
viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim
viewfinder a characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm missing?

-N.Morrow

"N.Morrow" wrote in message
...

I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The optical viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit
brighter than either the Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of the cameras were turned on (dead
batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and the viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim viewfinder a
characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm missing?

-N.Morrow

If you are judging the rear screens, look for a brightness setting
in the menu. If you are looking through the eyepiece VF, make
sure the lenses are the same speed and set to the same zoom
settings. BTW, the Nikon bodies below the D80/D90 use mirrors
instead of the brighter pentaprisms. I don't know what various
models of Canons use...
--DR

On 23/06/2010 9:44 a.m., N.Morrow wrote:
I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The optical
viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit brighter than either the
Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of the
cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and the
viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim
viewfinder a characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm missing?

-N.Morrow


Nikon's DSLR viewfinders are very dark unless charged batteries are in
the camera.
I guess that the D3000/5000 VF are similar to Canon XS.

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:51:48 -0400, "David Ruether"
wrote:
:
: "N.Morrow" wrote in message
: ...
:
: I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The optical viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit
: brighter than either the Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of the cameras were turned on (dead
: batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and the viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim viewfinder a
: characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm missing?

Maybe the Nikon needs power to keep the lens at full aperture and ther Canon
doesn't.

: If you are judging the rear screens, look for a brightness setting
: in the menu. If you are looking through the eyepiece VF, make
: sure the lenses are the same speed and set to the same zoom
: settings. BTW, the Nikon bodies below the D80/D90 use mirrors
: instead of the brighter pentaprisms. I don't know what various
: models of Canons use...

I'm pretty sure the XS uses mirrors.

Bob

On 2010-06-22 14:44:07 -0700, "N.Morrow" said:

I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The optical
viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit brighter than either the
Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of the
cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and the
viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim
viewfinder a characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm missing?

-N.Morrow

If you are talking about the actual viewfinder, then the problem is the
dead batteries. Nikon cameras default to stopping down the lens all the
way if the batteries are dead. Of course, if you are talking about the
LCD on the back, not only is not a viewfinder but it does not work at
all without batteries.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

In article , Me
writes
On 23/06/2010 9:44 a.m., N.Morrow wrote:
I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The optical
viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit brighter than either the
Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of the
cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and the
viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim
viewfinder a characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm missing?

-N.Morrow


Nikon's DSLR viewfinders are very dark unless charged batteries are in
the camera.

Don't confuse viewfinders with displays. SLR viewfinders are optical,
they don't use electricity so battery status *should* be irrelevant in
any comparison.

What matters with an optical viewfinder is:
1: How fast is the lens? Make sure that you are comparing equal f/#
lenses or taking the difference into account - and "bright" focus
screens don't show the benefit of fast optics as much as dim focus
screens, so it not only better to compare at the same f/# but at the f/#
of the lenses you are likely to use. Also, be sure the lens is fully
open when you make the comparison - as others have commented this may
depend on whether the lens is powered: Canon are open fully by default,
with Nikon it depends on the lens.
2: What is the viewfinder technology? As someone else mentioned, cheap
cameras use penta-mirrors instead of pentaprisms - and get darker
viewfinders as a result and, more significantly, are more prone to loss
of viewfinder/sensor alignment as they wear. Do your research, although
in this case all of the cameras you are comparing have cheap
pentamirrors.
3: What is the viewfinder magnification? Expect a larger viewfinder
image to be darker if everything else is equal - sensor size, f/#, etc.
4: If everything else is the same - as far as you can tell - it might
just be the focus screen, bit even that isn't as simple as you might
think. Bright focus screens are great for low light work, but they
don't show depth of field very well - making the camera's DOF Preview
button often worse than useless in that it gives a completely false and
very optimistic DOF preview. A darker focus screen gives a better DOF
preview, but is less useful for framing the subject in low light. Not
such a problem if you can use Live-view, but in a lot of situations you
can't (eg. night time wildlife).

Pays your money - takes your choice. ;-)
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 01:11:11 +0100, Kennedy McEwen
wrote:

In article , Me
writes
On 23/06/2010 9:44 a.m., N.Morrow wrote:
I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The optical
viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit brighter than either the
Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of the
cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and the
viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim
viewfinder a characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm missing?

-N.Morrow


Nikon's DSLR viewfinders are very dark unless charged batteries are in
the camera.

Don't confuse viewfinders with displays. SLR viewfinders are optical,
they don't use electricity so battery status *should* be irrelevant in
any comparison.

What matters with an optical viewfinder is:
1: How fast is the lens? Make sure that you are comparing equal f/#
lenses or taking the difference into account - and "bright" focus
screens don't show the benefit of fast optics as much as dim focus
screens, so it not only better to compare at the same f/# but at the f/#
of the lenses you are likely to use. Also, be sure the lens is fully
open when you make the comparison - as others have commented this may
depend on whether the lens is powered: Canon are open fully by default,
with Nikon it depends on the lens.
2: What is the viewfinder technology? As someone else mentioned, cheap
cameras use penta-mirrors instead of pentaprisms - and get darker
viewfinders as a result and, more significantly, are more prone to loss
of viewfinder/sensor alignment as they wear. Do your research, although
in this case all of the cameras you are comparing have cheap
pentamirrors.
3: What is the viewfinder magnification? Expect a larger viewfinder
image to be darker if everything else is equal - sensor size, f/#, etc.
4: If everything else is the same - as far as you can tell - it might
just be the focus screen, bit even that isn't as simple as you might
think. Bright focus screens are great for low light work, but they
don't show depth of field very well - making the camera's DOF Preview
button often worse than useless in that it gives a completely false and
very optimistic DOF preview. A darker focus screen gives a better DOF
preview, but is less useful for framing the subject in low light. Not
such a problem if you can use Live-view, but in a lot of situations you
can't (eg. night time wildlife).

Pays your money - takes your choice. ;-)

Thanks for outlining a whole other list of reasons why DSLRs are pieces of
**** to add to my "100 REASONS WHY P&S's ARE BETTER" list. Now it's 104.
Btw: If your live-view doesn't ramp up in gain in dim lighting, as it does
on all my P&S cameras so that I can focus and compose shots in lighting too
dim to see in any optical viewfinder, you might want to talk to the
designers of your POS cameras about leaving out that highly beneficial
feature of EVF and LCD viewfinders on most every P&S camera.

:-)

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , Me
writes
On 23/06/2010 9:44 a.m., N.Morrow wrote:
I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The
optical
viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit brighter than either
the
Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of
the
cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and
the
viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim
viewfinder a characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm
missing?

-N.Morrow


Nikon's DSLR viewfinders are very dark unless charged batteries are in the
camera.

Don't confuse viewfinders with displays. SLR viewfinders are optical,
they don't use electricity so battery status *should* be irrelevant in any
comparison.

But it is relevant. This phenomenon has been around for an age. There are
some dSLRs that intentionally dim the viewfinder when power is off. (I
wasn't aware that this was a Nikon thing, though, and I don't know how they
do it. But it's an old story.)

Whether that's a feature or a bug is another question, but the fact remains
that you have to power them up to compare.

--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

"N.Morrow" wrote in message
...
I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The optical
viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit brighter than either
the Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None
of the cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo trademark)
and the viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the
dim viewfinder a characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm
missing?

-N.Morrow

Nikons seem to default to around a mid aperture setting when turned off.

"Ben Dover" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 01:11:11 +0100, Kennedy McEwen

wrote:

In article , Me
writes
On 23/06/2010 9:44 a.m., N.Morrow wrote:
I'm shopping for a DSLR and comparing Nikon and Canon models. The
optical
viewfinder on the Canon XS seemed to be quite a bit brighter than
either the
Nikon D3000 or D5000. I'm talking a couple of f-stops brighter. None of
the
cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo trademark) and
the
viewing was done inside a store with flourescent lights. Is the dim
viewfinder a characteristic of Nikon, or there something else I'm
missing?

-N.Morrow


Thanks for outlining a whole other list of reasons why DSLRs are pieces of
**** to add to my "100 REASONS WHY P&S's ARE BETTER" list. Now it's 104.
Btw: If your live-view doesn't ramp up in gain in dim lighting, as it does
on all my P&S cameras so that I can focus and compose shots in lighting
too
dim to see in any optical viewfinder, you might want to talk to the
designers of your POS cameras about leaving out that highly beneficial
feature of EVF and LCD viewfinders on most every P&S camera.

Gee TROLL BOY your reading comprehension is pretty poor. The OP said: "The
optical viewfinder" not the LCD screen. He also said;
"None of the cameras were turned on (dead batteries is a Sears demo
trademark)"

Nikon requires power for the aperture to open up, no power- lens closes
down.

DUH!!!