Turning film cameras into digital cameras

=(8) wrote:
"dj_nme" wrote in message
...

=(8) wrote:

I wasn't talking about a digital back. I was talking about a 35mm
size roll of film with a piece of film out sized package then went
right in to the 35mm camera film compartment. You then closed the
back just like if you had put a roll of film in it. This is totally
different from a back as it could also be used with any type of 35mm
camera.

=(8)


The first problem that I can see with a generic drop-in digital film
replacement is that every camera design put the film through a
slightly different path.
If the digital film sensor is aligned to fit into a Nikon F1, then it
probably wont fit properly inot a Canon T1 or a Pentax K1000 or a
Olympus OM1.
Then you also have the problem of interfacing the shutter mechanism
with the sensor so that it knows when to start and stop capturing,
what may work on a Pentax Spotmatic probably wont work with a Canon
EOS 300.
If these were the only hurdles to designing and building a drop-in
digital film, then Imagek should have been able to solve it and not
fail and then vanish in a cloud of vaporware.



See we all now understand why this thing never made it out of the
prototype stage and was basically stillborn. Interesting idea, but I
don't think feasible unless you want to make a different one for each
camera make and model and where's the sense in that. By the time they
had the two sample images out they were already behind what most mid
priced digital cameras could do at the time.

=(8)

Unfortunately, that's about it.
Kodak did it's best with their DCS backs for Nikon and Canon SLR
cameras, but these were for only a limited number of highly advanced
film camera models that had extensive electronic interfacing already
built into them.
Such is life.

In article ,
dj_nme wrote:
but these were for only a limited number of highly advanced
film camera models that had extensive electronic interfacing already
built into them.

The F3 doesn't have extensive electronic interfacing.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Philip Homburg wrote:
In article ,
dj_nme wrote:

but these were for only a limited number of highly advanced
film camera models that had extensive electronic interfacing already
built into them.


The F3 doesn't have extensive electronic interfacing.

A good point, it must have had enough interfacing to tell the digital
back when to start and stop capturing.
Either that or the DCS controls the shutter mechanism, as there is an
additional shutter-grip that is part of the DCS back.
The descriptions online of the original DCS aren't detailed enough to
draw any solid conclusion.

In article ,
dj_nme wrote:
A good point, it must have had enough interfacing to tell the digital
back when to start and stop capturing.
Either that or the DCS controls the shutter mechanism, as there is an
additional shutter-grip that is part of the DCS back.
The descriptions online of the original DCS aren't detailed enough to
draw any solid conclusion.

I doubt that the F3 reports when the shutter is released.

Controlling both the back and the F3 using a separate shutter release sounds
like a reasonable approach.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Philip Homburg wrote:
In article
,
dj_nme wrote:
A good point, it must have had enough interfacing to tell the digital
back when to start and stop capturing.
Either that or the DCS controls the shutter mechanism, as there is an
additional shutter-grip that is part of the DCS back.
The descriptions online of the original DCS aren't detailed enough to
draw any solid conclusion.

I doubt that the F3 reports when the shutter is released.

Controlling both the back and the F3 using a separate shutter release
sounds like a reasonable approach.

How was the release arranged on F3s with motor drives? Was there a
separate release or did the regular release activate the motor? If the
latter, that interface could probably be used for the sensor.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Apr 6, 9:28 pm, wrote:
Let's for the moment we think "out of the box". If there is a product
which has the shape of either a 35 mm or 120 film cartridge, and you
can just load it into your old film camera. However, this product acts
like a digital "film", in which it will store images in digital
format, instead of into film, would you buy such a product? It is
just exactly like your old film cartridge, put into the back of your
camera, set the camera as it has a film in it, advance the lever ,
take photos, go to next shot, etc. The difference would be when you
complete the shots (24 or 36 exposure), you connect this cartridge to
your computer and downloaded the digital data, just like a media card
in your digital cameras. This product would be re-used again and
again, just like the digital cameras.
Some of you may said that is the same question whether there is a
"back cartridge" that can be fitted into the old Hasselblad, Mamiya RB
or M645, in which it changes into digital cameras. However, I heard
that this speacil back is very expensive. Correct me if such a product
exist for professional photographers, but at a very high costs! (such
that it is just easier to throw away the old cameras and buy a new
digital one).
The next question is whether technically this is possible. Will people
buy them, and use their old cameras (which some had invested heavily
before the digital era came to play). This sounds like a crazy idea,
but I sometime wonder that if it is possible. There are lots of smart
people and inventors in this world, and I am sure they have the brain
to create such a product. I am sure that this would not be welcomed by
digital cameras' manufacturers, as it will compete with their product.
Although some of the "players" are still the same (Kodak, Fuji, Nikon,
Canon, Pentax, etc).
Unfortunately, we are living in a world which are driven by narrow
"track of minds", set by big corporations which decided upon our
direction into the future.
Thanks for sharing my "dream". I am now awake from my day dreaming.
Thanks for the discussion.

My father has an old Hasselblad that he is looking into getting a
digital back for and we were just in a photography shop in downtown
Chicago doing some pricing for it, as well as online. Yes it is a
small fortune to do so!

It is the convenience factor that is so appealing, being able to slip
a SD card from the camera to the PC or Mac is just far too appealing
these days

Kind regards,

Danepipesmoker
www.iansforest.com

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
How was the release arranged on F3s with motor drives? Was there a
separate release or did the regular release activate the motor? If the
latter, that interface could probably be used for the sensor.

The motor drive advances after the shutter release. You can use that
signal to detect when the shutter has closed, but you also need a signal
when the shutter is about to open.

The motor drive doesn't need to know then the shutter opens, and the flash
gets signaled when the shutter is open, instead of when the shutter is
about to open.

I don't know about the data back signals.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Philip Homburg wrote:
In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:

How was the release arranged on F3s with motor drives? Was there a
separate release or did the regular release activate the motor? If the
latter, that interface could probably be used for the sensor.


The motor drive advances after the shutter release. You can use that
signal to detect when the shutter has closed, but you also need a signal
when the shutter is about to open.

The motor drive doesn't need to know then the shutter opens, and the flash
gets signaled when the shutter is open, instead of when the shutter is
about to open.

I don't know about the data back signals.

My best guess is that the shutter release that is built into the DCS
back triggers the back which then triggers the actual camera shutter and
then the winder activates as on a normal motor-drive to recock the shutter.
I could be wrong, though.

wrote:
On Apr 7, 12:28 pm, wrote:
Let's for the moment we think "out of the box". If there is a product
which has the shape of either a 35 mm or 120 film cartridge, and you
can just load it into your old film camera. However, this product acts
like a digital "film", in which it will store images in digital
format, instead of into film, would you buy such a product?

Do a search on "Silicon Film". It's a lengthy saga, with little sign
of any real product despite a lot of calls for investors...

It's a nice idea, but has some *very* significant practical
difficulties, which is largely why digital backs are not made for the
35mm market.

I remember reading about this when they first announced it. At the time
digital cameras were about a megapixel max and I was thinking it might
be nice for my aging Canon F1, and a collection of FD lenses. I
couldn't figure how they could package it, and make it work with any
camera. How do you preview, display photos for a couple of good ones.
It seems it would have to be camera specific to adjust for varying
differences between the cartridge and the sensor, and how would it know
when the shutter was about to fire. I supposed the sensor could be
"armed" the shutter fire, and perhaps the cocking lever store the photo.
Anyway, technology overtook the need for it, I bought the bullet, and
a couple of EF and EFS lenses, as well as a Canon 300D since replaced
with a 30d.

On Apr 6, 10:07 pm, "Pat" wrote:
On Apr 6, 10:28 pm, wrote:

Let's for the moment we think "out of the box". If there is a product
which has the shape of either a 35 mm or 120filmcartridge, and you
can just load itintoyour oldfilmcamera.

heavily edited, for brevity

It's been done. The old Nikons had removeable backs. When things
first went digitial, you would swap off the back and put on adigital
back.


Hello, Pat:

The Nikon SLR "digital backs" were supplied by Kodak, however.


Cordially,
John Turco