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What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 28th 06, 03:35 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?

"Paul Furman" wrote"

What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?
http://images.mpire.com/1100/joesoldit/329024.jpg
http://images.mpire.com/1100/joesoldit/329027.jpg
http://images.mpire.com/1100/joesoldit/329026.jpg
http://images.mpire.com/1100/joesoldit/329028.jpg


A few brief comments about this lens. According to
the serial number, it was likely produced around
1971 to 1973. While it uses the same optical formula
as later versions, unlike those later version it
does not have multi-coated elements. As a result,
you have to take extra precautions to avoid flare.

The lens appears to be mounted on an F2 with the
Photomic metering head. With that camera, there would
be no reason for the lens to be converted to AI. The
good news is that conversions are still available for
$35 plus shipping.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $250. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.


  #12  
Old February 28th 06, 08:01 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?

Michael Benveniste wrote:
"Paul Furman" wrote"


What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?
http://images.mpire.com/1100/joesoldit/329024.jpg
http://images.mpire.com/1100/joesoldit/329027.jpg
http://images.mpire.com/1100/joesoldit/329026.jpg
http://images.mpire.com/1100/joesoldit/329028.jpg



A few brief comments about this lens. According to
the serial number, it was likely produced around
1971 to 1973. While it uses the same optical formula
as later versions, unlike those later version it
does not have multi-coated elements. As a result,
you have to take extra precautions to avoid flare.

The lens appears to be mounted on an F2 with the
Photomic metering head. With that camera, there would
be no reason for the lens to be converted to AI. The
good news is that conversions are still available for
$35 plus shipping.


Thanks. It does seem an unusual item. I found a couple sold for around
$160 and this similar AI version (probably with coating?) for $368:
http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/06/4c/30/67_1_b.JPG
  #13  
Old March 1st 06, 09:21 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?

Michael Benveniste wrote:
That one started life as a non-AI lens as well, but the N-C
marking means that it was multicoated. For reasons known
only to the geniuses in Nikon's marketing department, when
it came time to shift to autofocus lenses, for seven years
Nikon decided to base its only AF 28mm offering on the
optically inferior 28mm f/2.8 Series E.


Most people did not know it, but from the time the Nikon 2000/2020 came out
and the 8008, Nikon did not sell anything in production. They were selling
off their stock of AIs lenses and older cameras while they were "gearing
up" for the new AF line.

The F3AF and the 2000/2020 where evolutionary products. They were an attempt
to add autofocus to their existing line. Based upon what was available at
the time, mostly a meager effort by Canon, there really was no market for
autofocus.

Then Minolta came out with the Maxxum cameras. They were revolutionary in
their design in that they focused as fast and as well as many people did.

Canon, who was already developing professional grade cameras using "modern"
manufacturing techniques stopped what they were doing, dropped their
lens mount and started design and production of a whole new lens mount
for autofocus. That's why I jokingly call the T-90 an EOS-0, it was
the first and only camera made using the EOS design techniquies, but
with the older FD mount and all it's limitations.

Nikon also was taken by surprise. They stopped what they were doing and
started to develop a competing camera to the Maxxum. Unlike Canon they
decided not to scrap their mount, but extend it. They also dropped the
motor in each lens design of the F3AF and put the motor in the camera.

In order to make the focusing happen, Nikon replaced the helical focus
(large screw threads) mechanism with a rack and pinion (worm drive).
Unfortunately, they copied the horrible ergonomics of the Maxxum lenses,
which assumed that you would not want to manually focus the lenses
very often.

While this was occuring, the Yen took a nose dive in Japan. When they started,
they could sell a camera and get 300 Yen for every dollar they got from
selling a camera. In a matter of a few months, it went down to 150 Yen and
even less for the same dollar. So a camera that they could afford to sell
for $250 dollars would have to be sold for $500 to make the same amount of
Yen. Since the workers salaries, rents, utiltites, taxes, etc were paid
in Yen, this was a disaster.

Nikon also projected that consumer acceptance of AF cameras would be quick,
while professional acceptance would be slow. Therefore they concentrated
on cheap lenses that consumers would buy.

As for producing a better lens than the 28mm f2.8 series E lens in
autofocus, I expect that it took almost seven years to sell off the AIs
versions of the better lenses. Most profesionals who wanted one already
had one, consumers would not want to spend the money on an better one,
and most would buy zooms.

By that time consumer preference had shifted from prime focus lenses
to zooms, and most of the cameras sold with lenses were sold with
zooms and not prime focus lenses.

Canon, BTW, was not any better. They had announced a fairly large line
of lenses in the EOS mount, but for a long time, they only had a 50mm f1.8,
and a few zooms.

Another point is that the Canon cameras used hard to find 6v lithium
batteries that were expensive and did not last very long. Nikon chose
the easy to find and cheaper AA batteries.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at
http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/
  #14  
Old March 1st 06, 04:44 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

[snips for brevity]
Then Minolta came out with the Maxxum cameras. They were
revolutionary in their design in that they focused as fast
and as well as many people did.


Okay, I'm with you so far. The Maxxum shouldn't have surprised
anyone, but it did. So to set the stage, Nikon was facing
a serious threat from a previously lesser competitor.

Unfortunately, they copied the horrible ergonomics of the Maxxum
lenses, which assumed that you would not want to manually focus
the lenses very often.


This was a classic case of "lazy marketing" and "me too"
engineering. But at least Nikon recognized its error sooner
than with the 28mm. In 1991, they did upgrade the focus
ring, but stayed with the mediocre optical design.

While this was occuring, the Yen took a nose dive in Japan.
When they started, they could sell a camera and get 300 Yen
for every dollar they got from selling a camera. In a matter
of a few months, it went down to 150 Yen and even less for
the same dollar. So a camera that they could afford to sell
for $250 dollars would have to be sold for $500 to make the
same amount of Yen. Since the workers salaries, rents,
utiltites, taxes, etc were paid in Yen, this was a disaster.


It's true that a weaker dollar hurt Japanese exports. But it
was far from a "disaster" for the Japanese economy in general,
nor for the Japanese camera makers. When the Yen was weakest
at 262.8 per dollar, the Nikkei 225 was at 12,150. When the
28mm f/2.8 AF was introduced, the Yen had strengthened to
154.6 per dollar, but the Nikkei had soared to over 18,000.

It should be noted that all of the Japanese and German
camera makers faced the same situation, and the resulting
price adjustments closed the gap between gray market and
official import pricing.

Nikon also projected that consumer acceptance of AF cameras
would be quick, while professional acceptance would be slow.
Therefore they concentrated on cheap lenses that consumers
would buy.


Nikon had first experimented with AF on the F3, which was a
their professional model. Prototyping of the F4 as an AF
camera began in 1985. Yet because the Maxxum was accepted
by consumers rather than by professionals, Nikon changed
strategies.

This was another example of Nikon's lazy marketing, and
proved to be an adhoc fallacy. The slow adoption of the
Maxxum by pros was because of the consumer-grade build of
the initial models and the need to do a wholesale switch
of lenses to a manufacturer which had not, historically,
provided a full professional lineup.

The pro market was (and is) far less price sensitive than
the consumer market, so if there was concern over weaker
dollars and sterling this was also the wrong direction.

As for producing a better lens than the 28mm f2.8 series E
lens in autofocus, I expect that it took almost seven years
to sell off the AIs versions of the better lenses. Most
profesionals who wanted one already had one, consumers would
not want to spend the money on an better one, and most would
buy zooms.


Ah yes. The old "don't cannibalize sales of existing
inventory" strategy. By 1986, this had already been debunked
as part of the shift to what was then called "Japanese
management techniques." The minor lesson was that in a
competitive market, if you don't cannibalize your own sales
of an outmoded product, someone else will. But the major
lesson of that era was to work towards "just in time"
inventory at all levels of the channel.

So instead of accepting any previous overproduction as
a sunk cost, Nikon made a lens which professionals would not
want due to mediocre optics, and consumers would not want
since they were shifting to zooms. Genius!

The only other "E" lens making the switch was the 70-210mm.
By 1986, that lens was an open secret -- optically, it is
a very close cousin to the 80-200 f/4 AI-S. Nikon eventually
replaced that one with a more consumer oriented models as
well. In the meantime, Canon's 70-200 f/4L sold strongly.

At other focal lengths like 100-105mm, 135mm, and 200mm,
Nikon decided to wait before introducing any AF product at
all. Oddly enough, the 28mm f/2.8 AI-S was one of the few
manual focus lenses which Nikon announced it would continue
to produce.

Six months after Nikon's baby-stepping into AF, Canon
introduced its EOS line. The change in lens mount led to
the expected outcry from professionals, and in various
forums the same outcry echoes to this day. Yet despite the
slow start and limited lens availability, Canon was able
to capitalize on Nikon's missteps. By not fragmenting
their product line, they extended their market leadership
position from consumer gear into the professional market.

So while I mainly agree with your retrospective, I
feel it's a history of inconsistent and sometimes
downright incomprehensible marketing decisions. I
was (and remain) a Nikon user over this whole period,
but partially as a result I delayed buying autofocus
gear. When I finally did switch, I very nearly switched
brands as well.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $250. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.


  #15  
Old March 1st 06, 06:00 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?

Michael Benveniste wrote:

So while I mainly agree with your retrospective, I
feel it's a history of inconsistent and sometimes
downright incomprehensible marketing decisions. I
was (and remain) a Nikon user over this whole period,
but partially as a result I delayed buying autofocus
gear. When I finally did switch, I very nearly switched
brands as well.


The answer to that question will probably dismay you. Nikon currently sells
two cameras, the FM3a, which will probably be on the books for many years
because there are plenty of them in a warehouse from the last production run,
and the F6, which will IMHO be the last of the F(single digit) cameras.

Canon, who makes full frame (24x36mm) digital cameras will need to continue
to make lenses that cover a full frame, so they might as well continue
to sell film cameras. Eventualy that will be one model and it won't be
the EOS-300, probably will be an EOS-1 variant and it won't be cheap.

It looks to me that as long as the current president of Chinon is around,
his company will continue to make film cameras. Since he seems to have found
his niche, he may well be "the last man standing".

Yes, I know that there are others, but I don't think they will last. Leica
is a brand that will live on forever, but I don't think they will be producing
film cameras much longer. Same with Pentax, etc....

When it gets to the point that you can buy a "single use" 4mp digital camera
for about $20 including processing (return camera and you get 36 or 50
prints, and a CD) then film cameras will disapear overnight.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at
http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/
  #16  
Old March 1st 06, 07:30 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
It looks to me that as long as the current president of Chinon is around,
his company will continue to make film cameras. Since he seems to have found
his niche, he may well be "the last man standing".


Isn't it Cosina? I think I messed this one up again, oops.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at
http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/
  #17  
Old March 1st 06, 08:59 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default What is this ancient nikkor 28mm f/2?

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" ?:

The answer to that question will probably dismay you. Nikon currently
sells two cameras, the FM3a, which will probably be on the books for
many years because there are plenty of them in a warehouse from the
last production run, and the F6, which will IMHO be the last of the F
(single digit) cameras.


Hmmm. I didn't know I asked a question!

Based on their absence in U.S. distribution channels, I wouldn't
count on a steady supply of FM3A's either. But while I won't rule
out buying a one-use camera on a whim, otherwise I've bought my
last new film camera. When any of my current 6 film cameras fails,
I'll think about replacing it with used gear.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $250. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.


 




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