discharging batteries

My Fuji S5500 has a battery discharge option (for NiMH). I have been having
a problem with a set of batteries. I have two sets of the same brand both
purchased at the same time and both used in same quantities. One of the
sets rapidly loses its charge once charged. It starts moaning and giving
red lights after only about 10 pictures.
So I decided to try the discharge function to see if it could kick start the
batteries to maybe charging properly again. Except that this discharge has
been going on for several hours now and no indication of stopping. This
tells me that maybe the batteries do not have a short life after all but
perhaps there is something going on with the camera.
Any ideas to the problem please?

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:15:48 +0100, Beck wrote:

So I decided to try the discharge function to see if it could kick start the
batteries to maybe charging properly again. Except that this discharge has
been going on for several hours now and no indication of stopping. This
tells me that maybe the batteries do not have a short life after all but
perhaps there is something going on with the camera.
Any ideas to the problem please?

The way the discharge function works is that the batteries are
individually discharged. A bad battery may be discharged in a few
minutes or seconds, but the remaining good batteries might continue
discharging for hours. When discharging finishes, you'd have no
idea which batteries are good vs. bad. Some battery chargers that
also have a discharge function uses LEDs or an LCD display to show
when each cell has finished discharging. I'm assuming that the
S5500 doesn't display information about each cell while they're
being discharged based on how you asked the question.

Your problem is most likely that the bad set has one bad cell, and
discharging it isn't likely to help it very much. When I've had
that problem, I toss the bad cell but I *do not* replace it with a
new cell. I replace them all. The remaining 3 good cells are then
used in a different device that uses only 3 AA cells. A new battery
set doesn't cost very much. You might want to consider using
alkaline batteries in the S5500 instead of NiMH, since that camera
performs very well with them. It's rated at 250 shots per set of
alkalines if half of them use the flash. If flash isn't needed,
such as for outdoor shots, it should be good for more than 800 or
900 shots. I wait for the local Pathmark or RiteAid to have a
battery sale and then stock up. That way one set of 4 AA alkalines
usually cost less than $1.00, and can keep my Fuji S5100 running a
looong time. It all depends of course, on how many shots you take,
but there are people in this ng that have reported that the
similarly efficient Canon A610/A620 cameras are still using their
first set of 4 AA alkalines despite having been used since late last
year. For that kind of usage, alkalines are a better choice than
rechargeables. Only when very large numbers of pictures are taken
or the flash is heavily used are NiMH batteries preferable.

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:14:26 +0100, Beck wrote:

Have considered using Lithium AA batteries (non rechargable) any
these any good? They reckon the Energizer ones are up to 7x longer
power than normal AA.

They're very good, but not really cost effective, depending on the
camera that they're used in. For devices that use very little
current, you'll be lucky if they last even twice as long as regular
alkalines. In old cameras that get very short life from batteries,
such as only a dozen or two dozen shots, they might last 5 to 7
times longer. For the Fuji S5500 my guess is that they'd last at
least twice as long as regular alkalines if the flash is used a lot
(500 or more shots per set vs. 250). But if the flash isn't used,
they wouldn't provide that much improvement, maybe 1000 shots
instead of 800 or 900. FWIW, this is the expected battery life
shown in Nikon's manual for their SB600 flash, which also uses 4AA
batteries (a fixed point font will help to align the columns):

Battery type Min. recycle time Number of flashes
Alkaline-manganese 3.5 sec. 200
Lithium 4.0 sec. 400
Nickel 2.5 sec. 180
NiCd (1000 mAh) 2.9 sec. 90
Ni-MH (2000 mA) 2.5 sec. 220

Replace when charge time is:
Alkaline-manganese More than 30 seconds
Lithium More than 10 seconds
Nickel More than 10 seconds
Ni-Cd More than 10 seconds
Ni-MH More than 10 seconds

These results can't be translated directly to camera performance,
since in a camera, NiMH usually provides twice the number of shots
that alkalines do, where the SB600 is only good for slightly more
shots using NiMH batteries. But if a lot of flash shots will be
taken, you'd be better of avoiding alkalines if you don't want to
wait a long time between shots. Alkalines may start off with fast
recycle times, but they slow down very quickly in conditions where
NiMH and lithium slow down only slightly. That the lithium
batteries start off with the longest recycle time (4 seconds)
appears odd, but that's probably due to having internal circuitry
designed to prevent excessive current. Energizer mentions something
about this in their battery design manual or in some data sheets.

Anyone know of a GOOD source for replacement batteries for the Panasonic
dmc-fz30? I've ordered two knock-offs online and they have lasted only a
few months.

Thanks,

Al

Beck wrote:

My Fuji S5500 has a battery discharge option (for NiMH). I have been having
a problem with a set of batteries. I have two sets of the same brand both
purchased at the same time and both used in same quantities. One of the
sets rapidly loses its charge once charged. It starts moaning and giving
red lights after only about 10 pictures.
So I decided to try the discharge function to see if it could kick start the
batteries to maybe charging properly again. Except that this discharge has
been going on for several hours now and no indication of stopping. This
tells me that maybe the batteries do not have a short life after all but
perhaps there is something going on with the camera.
Any ideas to the problem please?


Some discharge cycles can take overnight because they really discharge
the batteries slowly.

I would suggest just buying another set of batteries and see if that
fixes your problem. If not, then you can look into a possible camera
problem. I have tried many brands of batteries and some of them (even
with high current ratings) just don't work well in cameras. In some
cases, I think the vendors lie (especially for "off" brands) about the
current ratings.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

Gardening for over 40 years

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

"Beck" wrote in message
...
My Fuji S5500 has a battery discharge option (for NiMH). I have been
having a problem with a set of batteries. I have two sets of the same
brand both purchased at the same time and both used in same quantities.
One of the sets rapidly loses its charge once charged. It starts moaning
and giving red lights after only about 10 pictures.
So I decided to try the discharge function to see if it could kick start
the batteries to maybe charging properly again. Except that this
discharge has been going on for several hours now and no indication of
stopping. This tells me that maybe the batteries do not have a short life
after all but perhaps there is something going on with the camera.
Any ideas to the problem please?

Hi.

It may well take very many hours to discharge the batteries. There is no
indication of how far through the process the camera is. You just get that
same screen until it finishes.

Get yourself an "Intelligent" charger, which has the discharge facility.

Roy G

ASAAR wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:14:26 +0100, Beck wrote:

Have considered using Lithium AA batteries (non rechargable) any
these any good? They reckon the Energizer ones are up to 7x longer
power than normal AA.

They're very good, but not really cost effective, depending on the
camera that they're used in. For devices that use very little
current, you'll be lucky if they last even twice as long as regular
alkalines. In old cameras that get very short life from batteries,
such as only a dozen or two dozen shots, they might last 5 to 7
times longer. For the Fuji S5500 my guess is that they'd last at
least twice as long as regular alkalines if the flash is used a lot
(500 or more shots per set vs. 250). But if the flash isn't used,
they wouldn't provide that much improvement, maybe 1000 shots
instead of 800 or 900. FWIW, this is the expected battery life
shown in Nikon's manual for their SB600 flash, which also uses 4AA
batteries (a fixed point font will help to align the columns):

Battery type Min. recycle time Number of flashes
Alkaline-manganese 3.5 sec. 200
Lithium 4.0 sec. 400
Nickel 2.5 sec. 180
NiCd (1000 mAh) 2.9 sec. 90
Ni-MH (2000 mA) 2.5 sec. 220

Replace when charge time is:
Alkaline-manganese More than 30 seconds
Lithium More than 10 seconds
Nickel More than 10 seconds
Ni-Cd More than 10 seconds
Ni-MH More than 10 seconds

These results can't be translated directly to camera performance,
since in a camera, NiMH usually provides twice the number of shots
that alkalines do, where the SB600 is only good for slightly more
shots using NiMH batteries. But if a lot of flash shots will be
taken, you'd be better of avoiding alkalines if you don't want to
wait a long time between shots. Alkalines may start off with fast
recycle times, but they slow down very quickly in conditions where
NiMH and lithium slow down only slightly. That the lithium
batteries start off with the longest recycle time (4 seconds)
appears odd, but that's probably due to having internal circuitry
designed to prevent excessive current. Energizer mentions something
about this in their battery design manual or in some data sheets.


I use lithium (non-rechargeable) batteries as backup to my NIMH pack.
The lithium cells can be bought for $20 for 12 from Sam's Club. They
last for about 300 shots in my camera, and their shelf-life is very long
(up to 10 years), low temp. performance is great, and they are quite a
bit lighter than NIMH or alkaline batteries. If 300 shots uses up two
(in my camera), that makes my cost per picture less than 1 cent, which
isn't prohibitive, at least not to me.

So, cheapest in my case is NIMH, since the manual warns not to use
alkalines.

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:14:50 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:

I use lithium (non-rechargeable) batteries as backup to my NIMH pack.
The lithium cells can be bought for $20 for 12 from Sam's Club. They
last for about 300 shots in my camera, and their shelf-life is very long
(up to 10 years), low temp. performance is great, and they are quite a
bit lighter than NIMH or alkaline batteries. If 300 shots uses up two
(in my camera), that makes my cost per picture less than 1 cent, which
isn't prohibitive, at least not to me.

So, cheapest in my case is NIMH, since the manual warns not to use
alkalines.

Someday . . . someday you may own a camera that can use alkalines.
Kodak makes 'em now ya know. But maybe Sam's is selling older
batteries? The ones here (Energizers) have had 2020 expiration
dates for quite some time, indicating a longer shelf life than 10
years. But I'm sure you'll have no problem using yours well before
2015 arrives, especially since they're much more economical than
your "less than 1 cent" indicates. Looks like 0.4 cents per shot
from here, making them if not a bargain, not an expensive luxury
item either. One thing I don't know about them is whether they're
known to leak, and if so how often compared to alkalines, and under
what conditions. If I could feel safe leaving lithium batteries in
equipment for years at a time it would easily justify their higher
cost.

ASAAR wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:14:50 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:

I use lithium (non-rechargeable) batteries as backup to my NIMH pack.
The lithium cells can be bought for $20 for 12 from Sam's Club. They
last for about 300 shots in my camera, and their shelf-life is very long
(up to 10 years), low temp. performance is great, and they are quite a
bit lighter than NIMH or alkaline batteries. If 300 shots uses up two
(in my camera), that makes my cost per picture less than 1 cent, which
isn't prohibitive, at least not to me.

So, cheapest in my case is NIMH, since the manual warns not to use
alkalines.

Someday . . . someday you may own a camera that can use alkalines.
Kodak makes 'em now ya know. But maybe Sam's is selling older
batteries? The ones here (Energizers) have had 2020 expiration
dates for quite some time, indicating a longer shelf life than 10
years. But I'm sure you'll have no problem using yours well before
2015 arrives, especially since they're much more economical than
your "less than 1 cent" indicates. Looks like 0.4 cents per shot
from here, making them if not a bargain, not an expensive luxury
item either. One thing I don't know about them is whether they're
known to leak, and if so how often compared to alkalines, and under
what conditions. If I could feel safe leaving lithium batteries in
equipment for years at a time it would easily justify their higher
cost.


I am not sure about the leakage factor either. However, I don't leave
them in the camera, but remove them when I return home and replace the
NIMH batteries and place the camera back on the 'dock'. And, yes, I
know Kodak has some models that will use alkalines. Unfortunately, I DO
know about the leakage factor in alkalines, which is a reason for not
leaving THEM in an unused device either, for years. I have some
equipment that I have to remove the alkaline batteries from because they
draw current all the time, and will deplete the batteries quickly,
causing leakage. Not a pretty picture!

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:10:24 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:

I am not sure about the leakage factor either. However, I don't leave
them in the camera, but remove them when I return home and replace
the NIMH batteries and place the camera back on the 'dock'. And, yes, I
know Kodak has some models that will use alkalines. Unfortunately, I DO
know about the leakage factor in alkalines, which is a reason for not
leaving THEM in an unused device either, for years. I have some
equipment that I have to remove the alkaline batteries from because they
draw current all the time, and will deplete the batteries quickly,
causing leakage. Not a pretty picture!

Unfortunately, though rare, a small percentage of them will leak
even with no current drawn. I've seen it with fresh batteries still
hanging in unopened packs hanging on the rack, which has had me
wondering if perhaps they were previously stored for a few months in
a hot warehouse somewhere. I was messing with some CR123A batteries
last night (more about that in a bit) and realized that when you
mentioned the 10 year shelf life of the lithium batteries bought at
Sam's Club, while they probably were lithium AA batteries, they
*might* have been a very good buy if they were CRV3 batteries
instead. And if they were, that would explain the 10 year shelf
life, since the recent lithium batteries I've seen that were made
using 3v lithium cells have had 2015 expiration dates as opposed to
the 2020 dates on 1.5 volt lithium cells.

Getting back to the CR123A batteries, I was in a photo shop
recently and bought one made by Varta that was priced substantially
lower than the usual Energizer CR123A, $3.49, which is 1/2 to 1/3
the regular price. I swapped it in a high quality LED light and
found that the light flickered, seemingly due to an intermittent
switch. It turned out to be the battery, which when examined side
by side with the Energizer, didn't seem to be constructed as well at
either end, but mostly on the base, which is made of a metal that
has a slightly matte finish compared to the Energizer. I could get
the light to operate reliably by turning the end cap slightly, which
might have positioned the light's contact spring into a better
position on the base of the 123A. I also noticed that the Varta
appeared to be significantly lighter, perhaps 75% or 80% of the
weight of the Energizer, but lacking a small precision scale I
couldn't verify this. But if it's lighter, it's sure to have a
lower capacity as well. With the significantly lower price it would
still be a good buy, but while good enough for a light, I wouldn't
want to use Vartas in a camera on the off chance that a similar
intermittent loss of power might occur, which could also lead to the
loss of pictures if it happened while writing pictures to memory.