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Upcoming Film Price Wars - Kodak vs. Fuji...



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 25th 04, 12:11 AM
Bob Monaghan
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Default Upcoming Film Price Wars - Kodak vs. Fuji...


Let's not forget the good news buried in Kodak's "death of film" press
release (before back-treading..).

Kodak planned to reduce cost of their films to compete with Fuji for the
declining market of film sales volume "aggressively" - i.e., a price war!
;-) ;-)

Granted, Kodak may no longer make all the emulsions we want, but the ones
they do make, they will be selling for much less. Since they haven't been
putting $$ into basic film R&D for almost a decade now (longer for B&W),
they can't rely on their past technology advantages over Fuji or even
AGFA. So they will have to compete on price, and compete aggressively if
they don't want to lose market share and still significant film profits to
Fuji and Agfa and other players likely to bring out new and improved films
during the coming decade(s).

I see the fifteen cent made in China disposable cameras (vs. $1 disposable
cameras made in USA per recent thread posting from Kodak filing) as part
of this future "price war". Kodak has allowed competitors like Agfa to
dominate this lucrative and growing end of the film market for years. So I
wouldn't be surprised at a price war in disposable cameras aimed to
grabbing lost marketshare in this highly profitable segment from Agfa
et. al.

So if Kodak keeps to its announced plans, then we can expect to see even
lower prices for film stocks and disposable cameras etc., right? So
instead of film prices going up as sales decline, Kodak's forecast
suggests that film prices (in USA at least) may decline noticeably? ;-)

grins bobm

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* Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 *
********************Standard Disclaimers Apply*************************
  #6  
Old September 25th 04, 12:44 PM
Donald Qualls
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Chris Brown wrote:

I think the point is that you probably wouldn't want to put Kodak Super
Duper Ultra Zoom Grotmatic 800, as used in the grainiest 6*4s from a
disposable, in your MF camera.


Or maybe some of us would -- don't forget that extra negative real
estate will forgive many evils that would be impardonable in 35 mm. I
wouldn't think of using Max 800 in my 16 mm subminiature cameras, even
if I had a convenient way to get two feet of 16 mm C-41 film processed,
but it's acceptable in 35 mm if ISO 400 is too slow; in 6x9 cm (8 on
120), at around six times the negative area of 35 mm, it should be just
fine (or at least the grain and sharpness should be acceptable for
situations where ISO 400 is too slow -- bad color is still bad color,
but once again, if you have the shot with bad color, you can always
correct in printing; you can't correct for missing the shot).

Mind you, if I'm shooting with my Moskva-5 or Kodak Reflex II in light
that's too low for ISO 400 (happens frequently with f/3.5 lenses, I'm
afraid), I'd probably prefer to have Ilford Delta 3200 in my bag (since
I can't get T-Max P3200 in 120). Yes, it's B&W -- but that just means I
can process it myself, with my choice of developer, time, and
temperature, to control for contrast, sharpness, and (to some extent)
grain, qualities that are pretty much fixed by the emulsion with C-41.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

  #7  
Old September 25th 04, 01:07 PM
Nick Zentena
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Bob Monaghan wrote:

Let's not forget the good news buried in Kodak's "death of film" press
release (before back-treading..).

Kodak planned to reduce cost of their films to compete with Fuji for the
declining market of film sales volume "aggressively" - i.e., a price war!
;-) ;-)


I'm of two minds on this. It's bad because it slows down others entering
the market. OTOH it shows just how much profit there is in the film market.

Nick
  #8  
Old September 25th 04, 07:54 PM
Ron Todd
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On 24 Sep 2004 18:11:41 -0500, (Bob Monaghan)
wrote:


Let's not forget the good news buried in Kodak's "death of film" press
release (before back-treading..).

Kodak planned to reduce cost of their films to compete with Fuji for the
declining market of film sales volume "aggressively" - i.e., a price war!
;-) ;-)

Granted, Kodak may no longer make all the emulsions we want, but the ones
they do make, they will be selling for much less. Since they haven't been
putting $$ into basic film R&D for almost a decade now (longer for B&W),
they can't rely on their past technology advantages over Fuji or even
AGFA. So they will have to compete on price, and compete aggressively if
they don't want to lose market share and still significant film profits to
Fuji and Agfa and other players likely to bring out new and improved films
during the coming decade(s).

I see the fifteen cent made in China disposable cameras (vs. $1 disposable
cameras made in USA per recent thread posting from Kodak filing) as part
of this future "price war". Kodak has allowed competitors like Agfa to
dominate this lucrative and growing end of the film market for years. So I
wouldn't be surprised at a price war in disposable cameras aimed to
grabbing lost marketshare in this highly profitable segment from Agfa
et. al.

So if Kodak keeps to its announced plans, then we can expect to see even
lower prices for film stocks and disposable cameras etc., right? So
instead of film prices going up as sales decline, Kodak's forecast
suggests that film prices (in USA at least) may decline noticeably? ;-)

grins bobm



Ok, that is one rational way of looking at it, but just how many
folks put off buying film because it is too expensive now?

I would think a dramatic cut in prices would only lead to making film
unprofitable and more of a reason for publicly owned companies to end
production.

Taking this price cut along with what people in the business have
previously said, it sounds more like a "going out of business
firesale."

Costco charges $0.14 a 4x6 print for digital. Apparently, most of
their prints are still from film, although from the looks of the
station their volume has been declining. (need to verify this, looks
may be deceiving)


  #9  
Old September 25th 04, 07:54 PM
Ron Todd
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 24 Sep 2004 18:11:41 -0500, (Bob Monaghan)
wrote:


Let's not forget the good news buried in Kodak's "death of film" press
release (before back-treading..).

Kodak planned to reduce cost of their films to compete with Fuji for the
declining market of film sales volume "aggressively" - i.e., a price war!
;-) ;-)

Granted, Kodak may no longer make all the emulsions we want, but the ones
they do make, they will be selling for much less. Since they haven't been
putting $$ into basic film R&D for almost a decade now (longer for B&W),
they can't rely on their past technology advantages over Fuji or even
AGFA. So they will have to compete on price, and compete aggressively if
they don't want to lose market share and still significant film profits to
Fuji and Agfa and other players likely to bring out new and improved films
during the coming decade(s).

I see the fifteen cent made in China disposable cameras (vs. $1 disposable
cameras made in USA per recent thread posting from Kodak filing) as part
of this future "price war". Kodak has allowed competitors like Agfa to
dominate this lucrative and growing end of the film market for years. So I
wouldn't be surprised at a price war in disposable cameras aimed to
grabbing lost marketshare in this highly profitable segment from Agfa
et. al.

So if Kodak keeps to its announced plans, then we can expect to see even
lower prices for film stocks and disposable cameras etc., right? So
instead of film prices going up as sales decline, Kodak's forecast
suggests that film prices (in USA at least) may decline noticeably? ;-)

grins bobm



Ok, that is one rational way of looking at it, but just how many
folks put off buying film because it is too expensive now?

I would think a dramatic cut in prices would only lead to making film
unprofitable and more of a reason for publicly owned companies to end
production.

Taking this price cut along with what people in the business have
previously said, it sounds more like a "going out of business
firesale."

Costco charges $0.14 a 4x6 print for digital. Apparently, most of
their prints are still from film, although from the looks of the
station their volume has been declining. (need to verify this, looks
may be deceiving)


  #10  
Old September 25th 04, 09:21 PM
Nick Zentena
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Default

Ron Todd wrote:


Ok, that is one rational way of looking at it, but just how many
folks put off buying film because it is too expensive now?


I doubt the idea is to grow the market. It's to capture a bigger share of
the market.



I would think a dramatic cut in prices would only lead to making film
unprofitable and more of a reason for publicly owned companies to end
production.


You have to figure Kodak makes a lot of film every single day. They need
volume more then they need high prices.


Nick
 




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