UK court case: Question the warranty?

This is worth checking out..

http://nikonuktalk.com/index.php?topic=962.0

This guy has taken a Nikon reseller to court after they refused to
repair a D300 that suffered a shutter mechanism failure. The Re-seller
a UK company called Camerbox said "External force" and would not
honour the warranty.

Looks like the judge took a different view, and blew the reseller out
of the water. So what is a warranty worth these days? This one is
described as practically worthless by a UK judge.

wrote:
This is worth checking out..

http://nikonuktalk.com/index.php?topic=962.0

This guy has taken a Nikon reseller to court after they refused to
repair a D300 that suffered a shutter mechanism failure. The Re-seller
a UK company called Camerbox said "External force" and would not
honour the warranty.

Looks like the judge took a different view, and blew the reseller out
of the water. So what is a warranty worth these days? This one is
described as practically worthless by a UK judge.

I wonder if, like here (New Zealand), consumers are aware of their
rights under consumer protection laws (called the CGA act here). I
expect that UK legislation is similar to here.

Settling claims is via a small claims court / disputes tribunal - no
lawyers allowed. Here it costs about US$25 to lodge a claim with the
tribunal. I never had to get that far, even when initially hesitant,
the shops/corporations have always yielded and replaced goods or
refunded my $ when they've been reminded of my rights. If the retailer
is being a bit hesitant/obstructive, then bypass them and go direct to
the manufacturer/importer. Some of my "wins" include a 5YO vacuum
cleaner ("reputable" expensive brand) that was a piece of ****. When
explaining to them clearly why it was a piece of ****, they quickly
decided to refund 100% of purchase price rather than attempt to defend
the indefensible in a hearing. They also aren't likely to want to put a
statement on record that their (piece of ****) vacuum cleaner was only
designed to last a couple of years, so they've got almost no chance to
win. Another very recent case, an expensive tap (faucet) mixer in my
house failed. The retailer (large chain store) was useless and evasive,
and made no real offer to help. I called the manufacturer for parts
information, they asked me how old the mixer was (3-5 years), said "it
should have lasted longer than that", and sent me a replacement at no
charge via overnight courier.

In countries with consumer protection laws, there's no point for a
retail consumer buying extended warranty - the CGA provides more cover
for a (much) longer duration, and you already paid for it (one reason
why retail prices are significantly higher in countries with consumer
protection legislation. They try and sell extended warranty - getting
extra $ for something the consumer already paid for is a very nice
profitable business, so they try very hard to sell it.

Some devices have accelerometers built in. If you drop your iPhone from
a great height and it breaks, then Apple will probably have access to
some data on the incident. In that case, or if there's obvious damage,
claim on your insurer - not the maker.

You make many interesting points but I suspect that the products you cite
were purchased from local vendors. Local vendors may have a reasonable
expectation that you will make future purchases and they need to keep you
happy.

Many cameras/video purchases are now made from on-line vendors and I fear
these vendors are in out to make the quick buck with no expectation that the
customer will return (or be able recover their lose through the legal
system)! I am currently waiting for such an purchase to arrive. Great
advertized price for a T2i but, as I now wait, I wonder????


Me" wrote in message
...
wrote:
This is worth checking out..

http://nikonuktalk.com/index.php?topic=962.0

This guy has taken a Nikon reseller to court after they refused to
repair a D300 that suffered a shutter mechanism failure. The Re-seller
a UK company called Camerbox said "External force" and would not
honour the warranty.

Looks like the judge took a different view, and blew the reseller out
of the water. So what is a warranty worth these days? This one is
described as practically worthless by a UK judge.

I wonder if, like here (New Zealand), consumers are aware of their rights
under consumer protection laws (called the CGA act here). I expect that
UK legislation is similar to here.

Settling claims is via a small claims court / disputes tribunal - no
lawyers allowed. Here it costs about US$25 to lodge a claim with the
tribunal. I never had to get that far, even when initially hesitant, the
shops/corporations have always yielded and replaced goods or refunded my $
when they've been reminded of my rights. If the retailer is being a bit
hesitant/obstructive, then bypass them and go direct to the
manufacturer/importer. Some of my "wins" include a 5YO vacuum cleaner
("reputable" expensive brand) that was a piece of ****. When explaining to
them clearly why it was a piece of ****, they quickly decided to refund
100% of purchase price rather than attempt to defend the indefensible in a
hearing. They also aren't likely to want to put a statement on record
that their (piece of ****) vacuum cleaner was only designed to last a
couple of years, so they've got almost no chance to win. Another very
recent case, an expensive tap (faucet) mixer in my house failed. The
retailer (large chain store) was useless and evasive, and made no real
offer to help. I called the manufacturer for parts information, they
asked me how old the mixer was (3-5 years), said "it should have lasted
longer than that", and sent me a replacement at no charge via overnight
courier.

In countries with consumer protection laws, there's no point for a retail
consumer buying extended warranty - the CGA provides more cover for a
(much) longer duration, and you already paid for it (one reason why retail
prices are significantly higher in countries with consumer protection
legislation. They try and sell extended warranty - getting extra $ for
something the consumer already paid for is a very nice profitable
business, so they try very hard to sell it.

Some devices have accelerometers built in. If you drop your iPhone from a
great height and it breaks, then Apple will probably have access to some
data on the incident. In that case, or if there's obvious damage, claim on
your insurer - not the maker.

"JimG" wrote in message
...
You make many interesting points but I suspect that the products you cite
were purchased from local vendors. Local vendors may have a reasonable
expectation that you will make future purchases and they need to keep you
happy.

Many cameras/video purchases are now made from on-line vendors and I fear
these vendors are in out to make the quick buck with no expectation that
the customer will return (or be able recover their lose through the legal
system)! I am currently waiting for such an purchase to arrive. Great
advertized price for a T2i but, as I now wait, I wonder????


Warning: you triggered a mini rant.

Too many people look only at price and forget that service costs money. If a
vendor is only making a small markup on a camera, he cannot afford to give a
lot of service. In order to survive can an online vendor afford to hire
knowledgeable and dedicated sales people. When you go to a local hardware
store, upon hearing that the price is a little bit more than at Home Depot,
how many say: "they are thieves, home depot charges $2.00 less." How much is
it worth to walk in and walk out with what you need, instead of walking
through miles of aisles, searching for someone to get the item from the
upper shelf, (the item is always just out of reach,) A long checkout line
is next on your check list. After you bring it home you realize that it is
the wrong item. Then you wait on line for 20 minutes and have to repeat the
purchase nightmare over again. I prefer to pay a few dollars more.

Most of our local hardware stores and all of our lumber yards have been put
out of business by the perception of lower prices from the chains. We refuse
to pay for service, but expect it.

I had an "interesting" experience the other day. I wanted a snack before
getting on a train. I went into the place and saw they were discarding lots
of food. When I asked why, they said the computer register was broken and
they could not ring up any sales. Their solution was to throw the food away,
rather than either give it away, or sell it and ring up the sale later. It
is was may place I would have fired the manager on the spot.
\end mini rant

--
Peter

On 8/25/2010 7:34 AM, Peter wrote:
"JimG" wrote in message
...
You make many interesting points but I suspect that the products you
cite were purchased from local vendors. Local vendors may have a
reasonable expectation that you will make future purchases and they
need to keep you happy.

Many cameras/video purchases are now made from on-line vendors and I
fear these vendors are in out to make the quick buck with no
expectation that the customer will return (or be able recover their
lose through the legal system)! I am currently waiting for such an
purchase to arrive. Great advertized price for a T2i but, as I now
wait, I wonder????


Warning: you triggered a mini rant.

Too many people look only at price and forget that service costs money.
If a vendor is only making a small markup on a camera, he cannot afford
to give a lot of service. In order to survive can an online vendor
afford to hire knowledgeable and dedicated sales people. When you go to
a local hardware store, upon hearing that the price is a little bit more
than at Home Depot, how many say: "they are thieves, home depot charges
$2.00 less." How much is it worth to walk in and walk out with what you
need, instead of walking through miles of aisles, searching for someone
to get the item from the upper shelf, (the item is always just out of
reach,) A long checkout line is next on your check list. After you bring
it home you realize that it is the wrong item. Then you wait on line for
20 minutes and have to repeat the purchase nightmare over again. I
prefer to pay a few dollars more.

Most of our local hardware stores and all of our lumber yards have been
put out of business by the perception of lower prices from the chains.
We refuse to pay for service, but expect it.

I had an "interesting" experience the other day. I wanted a snack before
getting on a train. I went into the place and saw they were discarding
lots of food. When I asked why, they said the computer register was
broken and they could not ring up any sales. Their solution was to throw
the food away, rather than either give it away, or sell it and ring up
the sale later. It is was may place I would have fired the manager on
the spot.
\end mini rant

Did you ask _why_ they were not giving it away or selling it and ringing
it up later? Don't assume someone is an idiot until you have determined
the constraints under which he operates.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 8/25/2010 7:34 AM, Peter wrote:
"JimG" wrote in message
...
You make many interesting points but I suspect that the products you
cite were purchased from local vendors. Local vendors may have a
reasonable expectation that you will make future purchases and they
need to keep you happy.

Many cameras/video purchases are now made from on-line vendors and I
fear these vendors are in out to make the quick buck with no
expectation that the customer will return (or be able recover their
lose through the legal system)! I am currently waiting for such an
purchase to arrive. Great advertized price for a T2i but, as I now
wait, I wonder????


Warning: you triggered a mini rant.

Too many people look only at price and forget that service costs money.
If a vendor is only making a small markup on a camera, he cannot afford
to give a lot of service. In order to survive can an online vendor
afford to hire knowledgeable and dedicated sales people. When you go to
a local hardware store, upon hearing that the price is a little bit more
than at Home Depot, how many say: "they are thieves, home depot charges
$2.00 less." How much is it worth to walk in and walk out with what you
need, instead of walking through miles of aisles, searching for someone
to get the item from the upper shelf, (the item is always just out of
reach,) A long checkout line is next on your check list. After you bring
it home you realize that it is the wrong item. Then you wait on line for
20 minutes and have to repeat the purchase nightmare over again. I
prefer to pay a few dollars more.

Most of our local hardware stores and all of our lumber yards have been
put out of business by the perception of lower prices from the chains.
We refuse to pay for service, but expect it.

I had an "interesting" experience the other day. I wanted a snack before
getting on a train. I went into the place and saw they were discarding
lots of food. When I asked why, they said the computer register was
broken and they could not ring up any sales. Their solution was to throw
the food away, rather than either give it away, or sell it and ring up
the sale later. It is was may place I would have fired the manager on
the spot.
\end mini rant

Did you ask _why_ they were not giving it away or selling it and ringing
it up later? Don't assume someone is an idiot until you have determined
the constraints under which he operates.


The term "idiot" is yours, not mine.

Think about your comment. I asked why. If that didn't trigger some process,
it becomes their problem. I cannot think of one reason why I should get
involved in a companies business when there is no real upside for me.


--
Peter

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:14:33 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 8/25/2010 7:34 AM, Peter wrote:
"JimG" wrote in message
...
You make many interesting points but I suspect that the products you
cite were purchased from local vendors. Local vendors may have a
reasonable expectation that you will make future purchases and they
need to keep you happy.

Many cameras/video purchases are now made from on-line vendors and I
fear these vendors are in out to make the quick buck with no
expectation that the customer will return (or be able recover their
lose through the legal system)! I am currently waiting for such an
purchase to arrive. Great advertized price for a T2i but, as I now
wait, I wonder????


Warning: you triggered a mini rant.

Too many people look only at price and forget that service costs money.
If a vendor is only making a small markup on a camera, he cannot afford
to give a lot of service. In order to survive can an online vendor
afford to hire knowledgeable and dedicated sales people. When you go to
a local hardware store, upon hearing that the price is a little bit more
than at Home Depot, how many say: "they are thieves, home depot charges
$2.00 less." How much is it worth to walk in and walk out with what you
need, instead of walking through miles of aisles, searching for someone
to get the item from the upper shelf, (the item is always just out of
reach,) A long checkout line is next on your check list. After you bring
it home you realize that it is the wrong item. Then you wait on line for
20 minutes and have to repeat the purchase nightmare over again. I
prefer to pay a few dollars more.

Most of our local hardware stores and all of our lumber yards have been
put out of business by the perception of lower prices from the chains.
We refuse to pay for service, but expect it.

I had an "interesting" experience the other day. I wanted a snack before
getting on a train. I went into the place and saw they were discarding
lots of food. When I asked why, they said the computer register was
broken and they could not ring up any sales. Their solution was to throw
the food away, rather than either give it away, or sell it and ring up
the sale later. It is was may place I would have fired the manager on
the spot.
\end mini rant

Did you ask _why_ they were not giving it away or selling it and ringing
it up later? Don't assume someone is an idiot until you have determined
the constraints under which he operates.


The term "idiot" is yours, not mine.

Think about your comment. I asked why. If that didn't trigger some process,
it becomes their problem. I cannot think of one reason why I should get
involved in a companies business when there is no real upside for me.

Most people know that there are laws in most states that food-vendors
cannot give any food away, it must be destroyed if it is not sold (i.e. if
the sales transaction cannot be recorded at the time of sale). Take it up
with those politicians that you voted into office.

"Russ D" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:14:33 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 8/25/2010 7:34 AM, Peter wrote:
"JimG" wrote in message
...
You make many interesting points but I suspect that the products you
cite were purchased from local vendors. Local vendors may have a
reasonable expectation that you will make future purchases and they
need to keep you happy.

Many cameras/video purchases are now made from on-line vendors and I
fear these vendors are in out to make the quick buck with no
expectation that the customer will return (or be able recover their
lose through the legal system)! I am currently waiting for such an
purchase to arrive. Great advertized price for a T2i but, as I now
wait, I wonder????


Warning: you triggered a mini rant.

Too many people look only at price and forget that service costs money.
If a vendor is only making a small markup on a camera, he cannot afford
to give a lot of service. In order to survive can an online vendor
afford to hire knowledgeable and dedicated sales people. When you go to
a local hardware store, upon hearing that the price is a little bit
more
than at Home Depot, how many say: "they are thieves, home depot charges
$2.00 less." How much is it worth to walk in and walk out with what you
need, instead of walking through miles of aisles, searching for someone
to get the item from the upper shelf, (the item is always just out of
reach,) A long checkout line is next on your check list. After you
bring
it home you realize that it is the wrong item. Then you wait on line
for
20 minutes and have to repeat the purchase nightmare over again. I
prefer to pay a few dollars more.

Most of our local hardware stores and all of our lumber yards have been
put out of business by the perception of lower prices from the chains.
We refuse to pay for service, but expect it.

I had an "interesting" experience the other day. I wanted a snack
before
getting on a train. I went into the place and saw they were discarding
lots of food. When I asked why, they said the computer register was
broken and they could not ring up any sales. Their solution was to
throw
the food away, rather than either give it away, or sell it and ring up
the sale later. It is was may place I would have fired the manager on
the spot.
\end mini rant

Did you ask _why_ they were not giving it away or selling it and ringing
it up later? Don't assume someone is an idiot until you have determined
the constraints under which he operates.


The term "idiot" is yours, not mine.

Think about your comment. I asked why. If that didn't trigger some
process,
it becomes their problem. I cannot think of one reason why I should get
involved in a companies business when there is no real upside for me.

Most people know that there are laws in most states that food-vendors
cannot give any food away, it must be destroyed if it is not sold (i.e. if
the sales transaction cannot be recorded at the time of sale). Take it up
with those politicians that you voted into office.



Just which law in NY, or any other State says that?
There are laws which say uneaten food must be destroyed after being brought
to a table, if the patron does not take it home.
But I did not describe that situation.

--
Peter