It's official! Sony couldn't fix the NEX lens problem.

"RichA" wrote in message
...
Could probably get away with the 16mm at f2.8 in a pinch, but it isn't
in the same league as better micro 4/3rds lenses. There is a limit of
what you can do with a set amount of funds, and Sony needs to spend
more and make the 16mm more expensive so it can do a proper job.
There is a reason a Zeiss 21mm for a FF camera costs what it does.
The Sony lens at f8.0 is passable, but the CA is severe and not
correctable in software, IMO. The blurring at f2.8 at the edges is
also bad, enough so you'd clearly see it on any decent sized print.
IMO, this lens will be used like the crappy Sigma 30mm f1.4-centrally,
and not for work requiring good edge definition. But again, bear in
mind the camera and lens are very inexpensive.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/masters.gall...1O0UoG oG8%3d


Man, that is amazingly bad for a fixed focal length lens. Maybe Sony shoulda
stayed in bed with Zeiss.

"Bowser" wrote in message ...
"RichA" wrote in message ...

Could probably get away with the 16mm at f2.8 in a pinch, but it isn't
in the same league as better micro 4/3rds lenses. There is a limit of
what you can do with a set amount of funds, and Sony needs to spend
more and make the 16mm more expensive so it can do a proper job.
There is a reason a Zeiss 21mm for a FF camera costs what it does.
The Sony lens at f8.0 is passable, but the CA is severe and not
correctable in software, IMO. The blurring at f2.8 at the edges is
also bad, enough so you'd clearly see it on any decent sized print.
IMO, this lens will be used like the crappy Sigma 30mm f1.4-centrally,
and not for work requiring good edge definition. But again, bear in
mind the camera and lens are very inexpensive.

[URL deleted - it didn't work...]

Man, that is amazingly bad for a fixed focal length lens. Maybe Sony shoulda stayed in bed with Zeiss.

Even a good maker can have a "bad day"...;-( Nikon replaced their
unequivocally wonderful 16mm f3.5 FF MF fisheye (it's "snappy" and
sharp to the corners wide open with no illumination roll-off at infinity
focus - and it is even first-rate on the TC14A stopped down only one
stop), with the relatively very poor 16mm f2.8 FF MF/AF fisheye (it's
soft at the edges/corners until nearly f11, although it is tad wider...;-).
The MF 16mm f3.5 and the 28mm f4 PC Nikkors would be the last
of my many lenses if I ever sold most of them off (although I do also
like very much some other Nikkors I have...;-). There is more on this
here -- www.donferrario.com/ruether/slemn.html.
--David Ruether
www.donferrario.com/ruether

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:47:22 -0400, "David Ruether"
wrote:


"Bowser" wrote in message ...
"RichA" wrote in message ...

Could probably get away with the 16mm at f2.8 in a pinch, but it isn't
in the same league as better micro 4/3rds lenses. There is a limit of
what you can do with a set amount of funds, and Sony needs to spend
more and make the 16mm more expensive so it can do a proper job.
There is a reason a Zeiss 21mm for a FF camera costs what it does.
The Sony lens at f8.0 is passable, but the CA is severe and not
correctable in software, IMO. The blurring at f2.8 at the edges is
also bad, enough so you'd clearly see it on any decent sized print.
IMO, this lens will be used like the crappy Sigma 30mm f1.4-centrally,
and not for work requiring good edge definition. But again, bear in
mind the camera and lens are very inexpensive.

[URL deleted - it didn't work...]

Man, that is amazingly bad for a fixed focal length lens. Maybe Sony shoulda stayed in bed with Zeiss.

Even a good maker can have a "bad day"...snip...

Agreed, but this one has "turkey" written all over it. The released it
to the testers, got hammered, claimed they were all pre-productions
samples, and then they release this? And the zoom looks bad, as well.
I'm afraid these two lenses, combined with the utterly horrible
control system on the NEX cams might do nothing but sell a ton of m4/3
cams. I had hoped for something good, but they worked so hard to make
it small they made it unusable.

On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 20:51:21 +0100, Bruce wrote:


However, I think he rather missed the point. The *whole* point of
Micro cameras, in fact, which is of course to get point and shoot
owners trading up.

And even more who are tired of lugging around their heavy gear all day who
want to finally ditch that cumbersome crap and the heavy required tripods
after all these years. I along with others would consider that "trading
up", by far. It's one of the main reasons I ditched my first DSLR gear
shortly after moving over to digital 10 years ago.

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
[]
The key to getting DSLR owners to "trade across" to NEX is a body that
has more traditional controls, enabling basic parameters such as
aperture and shutter speed to be changed without resorting to multiple
menus. Perhaps there will be an NEX7.

... and a viewfinder, perhaps?

David

On 2010-06-05 12:14:44 +0100, Bruce said:

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:54:55 +0100, "David J Taylor"
wrote:
"Bruce" wrote in message
...
[]
The key to getting DSLR owners to "trade across" to NEX is a body that
has more traditional controls, enabling basic parameters such as
aperture and shutter speed to be changed without resorting to multiple
menus. Perhaps there will be an NEX7.

.. and a viewfinder, perhaps?


Sony hasn't ruled out the possibility of an accessory electronic
viewfinder (EVF) for all NEX models.

There is a shoe-mounted optical viewfinder available for the 16mm
lens. It is very expensive, though that is probably because the
viewfinder has more competent optics than the lens. ;-)

I thought the TLR concept was obsolete, obviously not. At least the TLR
had the better lens in front of the film so that idea is obsolete.

--
Pete

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:54:55 +0100, "David J Taylor"
wrote:
"Bruce" wrote in message
. ..
[]
The key to getting DSLR owners to "trade across" to NEX is a body that
has more traditional controls, enabling basic parameters such as
aperture and shutter speed to be changed without resorting to multiple
menus. Perhaps there will be an NEX7.

.. and a viewfinder, perhaps?


Sony hasn't ruled out the possibility of an accessory electronic
viewfinder (EVF) for all NEX models.

There is a shoe-mounted optical viewfinder available for the 16mm
lens. It is very expensive, though that is probably because the
viewfinder has more competent optics than the lens. ;-)

G

David

On 04/06/10 9:54 PM, Rich wrote:

The NEX will be worth buying for four reasons:
-Great low noise performance.
-Will work great with a good lens, like an adapted Zeiss.
-Great build quality and compact.
-Cheap!!

No way.

-Adapted Alpha lenses lose the AF functionality.
-Burst mode is very slow and requires what one reviewer stated "point
and pray" because of the lack of an optical viewfinder.
-The zoom lenses so far are horrible, and the upcoming lenses are quite
expensive.
-Competition like the Panasonic DMC-GF1 have fewer negative attributes.

The problem with cameras like the Micro 4/3 and the NEX is that they are
constantly being compared to D-SLRs because they have larger sensors and
interchangeable lenses, but the advantages of a D-SLR extend far beyond
the lower noise and higher ISO capability that the larger sensor
provides, and the versatility that interchangeable lenses provide.

I.e. the GF1 gets dinged for its weak flash (duh, like all P&S cameras
it has a weak built-in flash, there's no room for a more powerful pop-up
flash, but you can always add an external flash), it's high ISO/noise
performance (hey, it's a Panasonic which is famous for poor high ISO/low
noise performance on its P&S cameras), the need for an optional
viewfinder which eliminates the ability to use a flash (rationalized by
the premise that the times you need the viewfinder is in bright light
when you don't need a flash).

What's the market for the NEX? Someone that doesn't care about poor
quality and expensive lenses as long as they're interchangeable, and
doesn't ever shoot in bright sunlight because they can't see the LCD so
they need better high-ISO performance so they can shoot in low light? At
least the market for ZLRs is undertandable, they work well at low ISO
and if you don't need fast AF and can accept their compromise lenses,
then they're a lot more convenient than carrying an SLR and several
lenses around, and most have an EVF.

What we're seeing is something similar to film formats where not every
system will survive. NEX and Micro 4:3 are akin to 110, Disc, and APS,
though Micro 4:3 may be more like 126 which will survive until a better
compact system comes along.

Time will tell on the NEX system, but if it flops at the launch it'll be
difficult to turn it around.

On 05/06/10 4:14 AM, Bruce wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:54:55 +0100, "David J Taylor"
wrote:
wrote in message
...
[]
The key to getting DSLR owners to "trade across" to NEX is a body that
has more traditional controls, enabling basic parameters such as
aperture and shutter speed to be changed without resorting to multiple
menus. Perhaps there will be an NEX7.

.. and a viewfinder, perhaps?


Sony hasn't ruled out the possibility of an accessory electronic
viewfinder (EVF) for all NEX models.

That's what the Panasonic DMC-GF1 has.

Maybe they can add accessory phase-detect AF too.

On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 20:51:21 +0100, Bruce
wrote:




The NEX5 has just been given an extremely positive review in the
respected UK magazine "Amateur Photographer". You can buy the
magazine in the USA at good bookstands - I believe all Barnes and
Noble stores have it.

The camera was tested with the 18-55mm kit lens which performed like
most of the "family" of 18-55mm kit lenses - tolerably well for a kit
lens. But the camera received high praise. Particularly high praise
went to the video system.

I've seen nothing that would convince me to buy one. Yes, it's a VERY
subjective decision.


The reviewer's only serious reservation was that, as a DSLR user, he
thought the user interface was designed purely for point and shoot
owners trading up. He expressed the hope that another model might be
offered in the NEX series for more serious photographers, giving more
traditional controls without having to delve deep into multiple menus
to change simple settings.

However, I think he rather missed the point. The *whole* point of
Micro cameras, in fact, which is of course to get point and shoot
owners trading up.

Probably; which may explain why I won't buy one.


Sony has had the greatest difficulty selling the Alpha series of DSLRs
to new entrants. A very high proportion of Alpha sales have been to
former Minolta owners, with very few trading up from Sony point and
shoot cameras.

The NEX series provides an extremely good upgrade route for Sony point
and shoot owners, who will find the interface and many of the cameras'
features reassuringly familiar. NEX will also appeal to owners of
Sony bridge cameras such as the F828 and R1.

Sigh....

What I'd love is an 828 with a less noisy sensor, IS, and little or no
fringing. I loved that camera!


Finally, NEX will also appeal to owners of other brands of point and
shoot cameras who want to trade up to something with a larger sensor
that lacks the unfamiliar complication of a DSLR but offers most of
its image quality.

Sony has a winner on its hands here.

We'll see. I have no stake and I don't wish failure on anyone. I'm
just making my own guesses as to whether or not it will succeed.


This makes it all the more important to get that 16mm lens right. The
18-55mm isn't fantastic, but it is probably good enough. The 18-200mm
won't be much good, but no-one expects it to be. The 16mm is key,
because everyone expects a fixed focal length lens to perform far
better than it appears this one does.

True. This one, so far, it really, really bad.


I don't know if it is significant, but Sony has sent neither the 16mm
nor the 18-200mm lenses to UK reviewers. I hope this means that the
16mm will be revised.

The sent one to DP Review, a UK site. The first copy was a true dog,
the second one is also pretty bad, but a little better.


What can be in very little doubt is that the NEX spells disaster for
the entry level Alpha DSLRs. If NEX succeeds, and I believe it will,
it could very quickly take over from Alpha DSLRs as the flagship range
of Sony digital cameras. There is scope for a high end NEX body that
would replace the whole Alpha DSLR range below full frame.

The question would then be, how can the Alpha DSLRs survive?

Because they work better?