photography and drawing

"TP" wrote in message
...
"Mark M" wrote:


"TP" wrote in message
.. .
"Mark M" wrote:

Perhaps you should raise the bar by making your own masterful
submission.


Sorry, I don't do "Snapshot International".

;-)

Neither do I, but neither do I ever ridicule or put down the photos
people
submit there, or anywhere else as you do. Critique is fine. Ridicule is
never helpful, and THAT is why you get flack from me, TP.


The credibility of your attempts to claim the moral high ground is
sadly diminished to zero by the foam that drips from your lips.

Get a grip on yourself, Mark. I have no doubt that you are a lot more
intelligent than you appear.

If you look back over the long history of my posts, you will find that I
have NEVER ridiculed someone's work that is posted in good faith. We're not
talking about the George Preddy folk of the world, here...those don't count.
When people ask for critique here, I'll sometimes post some input, but
it is never mean-spirited. If you believe otherwise, then I challenge you
to quote me in context. The only venom you'll hear from me is directed
toward those who DO riducule other's work...or troll...or make wild claims
about themselves or their photography.

You will find that I have NEVER bragged about ANY photographic endeavor or
shot.

Now TP...rather than simply throwing empty "get a grip" type enptiness, look
me up.
When you do, you'll find a distinct lack of photographic ridicule of any
legitimate (non-Preddy-type) work.

But until they do, "SI" continues to mean "Snapshot International",
which is obviously all the majority of participants aspire to.

TP, the SI is first and foremost a recreational activity for most, if not
almost all, participants, and I do feel it ought to remain this way. I think in
the majority of circumstances they (the entries) do show a good grasp of the
basics. I am very willing to believe what you said about drawing improving your
photography because there's a difference between knowing something and fully
appreciating it, and while things such as composition are fairly easy knowledge
to aquire, the immensely attentive process that drawing requires heightens the
appreciation tremendously.

Anyone who
wants to take photography seriously should start off with a basic
manual focus camera with manual exposure, one or two fixed focal
length lenses and a tripod and learn the basics before even
considering the purchase of an auto-everything SLR. The temptation to
use AF and leave it in "P" mode is always too great. Using a zoom
lens might make things easy, but it teaches nothing about perspective.

TP, I've gone this full circle lately. Owning up to 11 cameras the majority of
which are classics. Personally I don't think now a camera being autofocus is a
problem as long as it has AF lock either by presssing shutter release halfway
or switching to manual after AF. I also don't think auto-exposure is a problem
as long as it has spot metering, exposure lock, and exposure compensation, and
maybe even some scene modes for portrait, action and landscape. You may laugh
at this but I really think it all comes down eventually to the same. It's true
that manual settings give many many more possibilites of aperture and shutter,
but only a handful of these are of relevance to any particular shot. Zoom is
not a problem either. You know, all routes eventually lead to Rome, so why take
the strenuous one. I know, it probably teaches more initially, but there's a
limit to what they teach and after a certain point it just becomes an exercise
in tediousness, and oftentimes auto settings can be trusted and only
occasionally do they need to be overriden. Cameras of course differ in how good
they are in auto mode so a good camera is always good.

I just think the whole manual thing is of little relevance to end result. All
that matters is whether a shot is well composed, and this has nothing to do
with auto or manual, photographically interesting, and this again has nothing
to do with auto or manual, taken at the right moment and from the right
viewpoint, and this again has nothing to do with auto or manual, and
well-exposed and well-focused, which no one will care whether you use AF/MF or
A/M to get it as long as it is.

But until they do, "SI" continues to mean "Snapshot International",
which is obviously all the majority of participants aspire to.

TP, the SI is first and foremost a recreational activity for most, if not
almost all, participants, and I do feel it ought to remain this way. I think in
the majority of circumstances they (the entries) do show a good grasp of the
basics. I am very willing to believe what you said about drawing improving your
photography because there's a difference between knowing something and fully
appreciating it, and while things such as composition are fairly easy knowledge
to aquire, the immensely attentive process that drawing requires heightens the
appreciation tremendously.

Anyone who
wants to take photography seriously should start off with a basic
manual focus camera with manual exposure, one or two fixed focal
length lenses and a tripod and learn the basics before even
considering the purchase of an auto-everything SLR. The temptation to
use AF and leave it in "P" mode is always too great. Using a zoom
lens might make things easy, but it teaches nothing about perspective.

TP, I've gone this full circle lately. Owning up to 11 cameras the majority of
which are classics. Personally I don't think now a camera being autofocus is a
problem as long as it has AF lock either by presssing shutter release halfway
or switching to manual after AF. I also don't think auto-exposure is a problem
as long as it has spot metering, exposure lock, and exposure compensation, and
maybe even some scene modes for portrait, action and landscape. You may laugh
at this but I really think it all comes down eventually to the same. It's true
that manual settings give many many more possibilites of aperture and shutter,
but only a handful of these are of relevance to any particular shot. Zoom is
not a problem either. You know, all routes eventually lead to Rome, so why take
the strenuous one. I know, it probably teaches more initially, but there's a
limit to what they teach and after a certain point it just becomes an exercise
in tediousness, and oftentimes auto settings can be trusted and only
occasionally do they need to be overriden. Cameras of course differ in how good
they are in auto mode so a good camera is always good.

I just think the whole manual thing is of little relevance to end result. All
that matters is whether a shot is well composed, and this has nothing to do
with auto or manual, photographically interesting, and this again has nothing
to do with auto or manual, taken at the right moment and from the right
viewpoint, and this again has nothing to do with auto or manual, and
well-exposed and well-focused, which no one will care whether you use AF/MF or
A/M to get it as long as it is.

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:28:41 +0100, TP wrote:

As for me being an "expert", I am not, and never will be. At least I am
humble enough to recognise that I can always improve my work, and
tuition is a very productive and enjoyable way of doing just that.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humble my ass. You can't squirm out of being the biggest prick ever to
have discovered usenet, Polson. Trying to mask your deplorable behaviour
with a "I-have-humility" hatch is simply not going to work here, my
friend.

It is a pity (for you and your photography) that you are so set on
deriding the very idea of learning basic technique; such arrogance means
that you think you have no need to improve, when the truth is that we
all do.

Do you ever wonder about why it is that people hate you? Doesn't it eat at
you? Don't you just want to apologise and stop trolling the group?

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:28:41 +0100, TP wrote:

As for me being an "expert", I am not, and never will be. At least I am
humble enough to recognise that I can always improve my work, and
tuition is a very productive and enjoyable way of doing just that.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humble my ass. You can't squirm out of being the biggest prick ever to
have discovered usenet, Polson. Trying to mask your deplorable behaviour
with a "I-have-humility" hatch is simply not going to work here, my
friend.

It is a pity (for you and your photography) that you are so set on
deriding the very idea of learning basic technique; such arrogance means
that you think you have no need to improve, when the truth is that we
all do.

Do you ever wonder about why it is that people hate you? Doesn't it eat at
you? Don't you just want to apologise and stop trolling the group?

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:19:26 +0100, TP wrote:

Apart from learning another approach to basic composition, one of the most
important things drawing classes have taught me about photography is the
importance of every individual element of the shot. In drawing or
painting, you can use "artist's licence" to subdue or even omit extraneous
detail. In photography, you're stuck with it, and it can often detract
from the subject or scene.

Drawing has made me more aware of extraneous detail and therefore how to
avoid, subdue or even harness it to improve the overall shot.

So you do stick men then, eh? Less is more, or so "they" say.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:19:26 +0100, TP wrote:

Apart from learning another approach to basic composition, one of the most
important things drawing classes have taught me about photography is the
importance of every individual element of the shot. In drawing or
painting, you can use "artist's licence" to subdue or even omit extraneous
detail. In photography, you're stuck with it, and it can often detract
from the subject or scene.

Drawing has made me more aware of extraneous detail and therefore how to
avoid, subdue or even harness it to improve the overall shot.

So you do stick men then, eh? Less is more, or so "they" say.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:59:25 +0100, TP wrote:

"Mark M" wrote:

Perhaps you should raise the bar by making your own masterful submission.


Sorry, I don't do "Snapshot International".

;-)

If anyone has heretofore doubted who is behind the "campaign" to get the
SI squished, let them wonder no more.

You claim to have absolutely no interest in the activity, yet you seem to
know more about it than anyone else here. You are obsessed with it.
Obsessed to the point where you have had to resort to continuous
bombarding of this forum to have it stopped so that you can continue to
masquerade as the "know-it-all" master photographer from the North of
England who has no place to "walk his talk".

You are a nobody.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 23:47:10 +0100, TP wrote:

(Mike Henley) wrote:

I'm wondering if any of you guys do both photography and drawing as a
hobby, and what effect you find drawing has on your photography.


I do both drawing and watercolour painting as hobbies, and photography for
a living. My photographic composition has improved considerably since I
did a drawing course earlier this year (or so I am told).

"They" lied to you. You have no work. What's more you will never be able
to use the internet to promote your imaginary "work" under your own name.
Doesn't that make you feel like a complete ****?

What a shame.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 23:47:10 +0100, TP wrote:

(Mike Henley) wrote:

I'm wondering if any of you guys do both photography and drawing as a
hobby, and what effect you find drawing has on your photography.


I do both drawing and watercolour painting as hobbies, and photography for
a living. My photographic composition has improved considerably since I
did a drawing course earlier this year (or so I am told).

"They" lied to you. You have no work. What's more you will never be able
to use the internet to promote your imaginary "work" under your own name.
Doesn't that make you feel like a complete ****?

What a shame.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.