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Assign and then convert to Adobe RGB (1998), or skip assignment.
Robert Montgomery wrote:
How can I get Photoshop to save my digital files as Adobe RGB 1998 files? Why would you want that? My two Canon cameras save the files as EXIF JPEGS, but when I look in my Mac's Finder in Get Info, every digital file from my cameras has the sRGBIEC61966-2.1 profile embedded in them. You can probably tell your cameras to save them as aRGB, too. In Photoshop, Edit Settings is set to "Adobe RGB 1998 (Perceptual)" and Working Spaces is set to "Adobe RGB (1998). Why would you use such a small working space? Using a larger (16bit) working space keeps your choices larger. Color Management Policies RGB is set to "Preserve Embedded Profiles. That's probably it. I don't know if I should assign the Adobe RGB 1998 profile first and then convert to Adobe RGB 1998, or skip the assignment and go directly to conversion to Adobe RGB (1998). Try it out. If you *assign* aRGB, you basically tell the world "This file is aRGB" when the values inside (the RGB data triples) are only right for sRGB. Anyway, unless you actually *change* the image so some colours in it leave sRGB space, you're not winning anything at all. It's like buying a larger carport to house the same cooper mini.[1] -Wolfgang [1] Actually, it's slightly worse: the carport (aRGB JPEG) can only house 256 distinct sizes in each dimension --- just as the smaller one (sRGB JPEG). But they're at different sizes. So the mini has to be stretched or compressed slightly in each dimension, and it's proportions will be slightly off. |
#2
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Assign and then convert to Adobe RGB (1998), or skip assignment.
Robert Montgomery writes:
Tell that to Vance. He keeps on writing in this thread that I don't benefit from the wider gamut of Adobe RGB 1998 compared to sRGBIEC61966-2.1. He insists that Adobe RGB is TOO WIDE for my Epson 7600 and 2400 printers, while you claim that it's NOT WIDE ENOUGH! Who's right? Both of you. sRGB is really not bad for your final output. Most labs I've sent prints to require you put your files into that profile before uploading them anyway (and I mean professional labs like WHCC). However, what's good enough for your final output is NOT good enough for the original or for your working space. A color print actually has maybe 5 stops of range, the negative 10 or more. Which parts of the negative ended up in the print was what custom printing was all about :-). Similarly, 8-bit output is good enough for nearly everything (few printer drivers, maybe none, actually handle 16-bit; you need to go to commercial RIPs for that). But you need 16-bit (per channel) originals so that, in places you expand the range, you don't end up with posterization (for example). Also, I gave up on 16-bit Pro Photo profiles because they disable Photoshop's filters, and some of those filters are critical for my image editing work. I work in ProPhoto 16-bit. You have an older version of Photoshop. that's one of the reasons I updated a few releases back. -- David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info |
#3
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Assign and then convert to Adobe RGB (1998), or skip assignment.
Robert Montgomery wrote:
On Feb 7, 6:44Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: How can I get Photoshop to save my digital files as Adobe RGB 1998 files? Why would you want that? To get a wider gamut in my prints than is provided by sRGBIEC61966-2.1 files. (That's the difference between the two profiles.) Is your printer capable of actually using the additional range of aRGB? Does it cover it? Did you check that with a profile of the printer, ink and paper? How? I don't see anything in the cameras' manuals or in the camera's user interface to do that. The terms "color profile", "profile, "sRGB" and "Adobe" and "1998" don't appear anywhere in the camera manuals of either the Canon Powershot 1200 or the Canon Powershot SX 20 IS. Ah, then Canon has chosen to keep that capability away from it's smaller cameras. In Photoshop, Edit Settings is set to "Adobe RGB 1998 (Perceptual)" and Working Spaces is set to "Adobe RGB (1998). Why would you use such a small working space? Â*Using a larger (16bit) working space keeps your choices larger. Tell that to Vance. He keeps on writing in this thread that I don't benefit from the wider gamut of Adobe RGB 1998 compared to sRGBIEC61966-2.1. As a working space -- the time from starting with your JPEGs or RAWs to finally writing your result, in sRGB or aRGB) you want Pro Photo (or lacking that, at least Wide Gamut). That allows you to temporarily be outside of the small aRGB space and jump back into it[1]. It also allows you to not have quantisation errors[2]. He insists that Adobe RGB is TOO WIDE for my Epson 7600 and 2400 printers, while you claim that it's NOT WIDE ENOUGH! Who's right? Let's look ... for the *intermediate workspace*, I am right. For the *output profile* ... let's see ... I checked the 7600's profile for lustre paper and manufacturer's ink against sRGB and aRGB: $ iccgamut -v -w -d 7 -k -c pp 9600 PrmLuster PLU2 Std v3.icc $ iccgamut -v -w -d 7 -k -c pp sRGB.icc $ iccgamut -v -w -d 7 -k -c pp Adobe.icc $ viewgam -cn -t0 -w -k 9600\ PrmLuster\ PLU2\ Std\ v3.gam \ -cr -t0.1 -s -k sRGB.gam \ -cg -t0.5 -s -k Adobe.gam \ 9600.wrl $ lookat 9600.wrl [iccgamut and viewgam are part of the Argyll CMS, lookat is just a VRML viewer] - Yellow is outside aRGB - Blue-ish and green-ish extend well outside aRGB in the darker colours, but aRGB still has a stronger saturated green. - Same for red-ish. - The printer cannot cover the light colours that sRGB can describe. = the printer cannot print all colours that sRGB can describe = The printer can print many colours (especially the darker saturated ones) that not even aRGB can describe. Use aRGB or even a larger colourspace. Also, I gave up on 16-bit Pro Photo profiles because they disable Photoshop's filters, and some of those filters are critical for my image editing work. Then you must live with quantisation errors and out of profile problems. I don't know if I should assign the Adobe RGB 1998 profile first and then convert to Adobe RGB 1998, or skip the assignment and go directly to conversion to Adobe RGB (1998). Try it out. I've tried it out probably on hundreds or thousands of files over the years. And? What were the results? When I do assign Adobe RGB (1998) profile to my images, I of course saturate them in Photoshop to take advantage of Adobe RGB's wider gamut. Did you ever try the saturation rendering intent? That could be just what you want ... -Wolfgang [1] Think of a price range of $1000 which you're willing to spend on a new camera. The model you want is $1100, and the battery grip you need is another $100. However, there's a rebate of $50 and you can sell your old body for $200. If you only consider prices $1000 and act like a computer (or photoshop) the following ensues: $1100 = $1000 == record the maximum of $999.99 + $100 = 1099.99 = $1000 == record the maximum of $999.99 - $50 rebate = $949.99 - $200 = $749.99 If you consider prices to $100,000,000, the following ensues: $1100 = store as $1100 (even though = $1000) + $100 = $1200 = store as $1200 (even though = $1000) - $50 = $1150 = store as $1150 (even though = $1000) - $200 = $950 = store as $950 The price limit is the border of your working space profile. [2] sRGB and aRGB have only 8 bit per channel, that is 256 different values. 16 bit has 256 times as much different values, so even with a much larger work space you have smaller steps in between. Consider rounding to full $100: $49.95 = round to $0 + $49.95 = $49.95 = round to $0 + $49.95 = $49.95 = round to $0 + $49.95 = $49.95 = round to $0 + $49.95 = $49.95 = round to $0 Consider rounding to full $10: $49.95 = round to $50 + $49.95 = $99.95 = round to $100 + $49.95 = $149.95 = round to $150 + $49.95 = $199.95 = round to $200 + $49.95 = $249.95 = round to $250 Consider calculating to the last cent: $49.95 = round to $49.95 + $49.95 = $99.90 = round to $99.90 + $49.95 = $149.85 = round to $149.85 + $49.95 = $199.80 = round to $199.80 + $49.95 = $249.75 = round to $249.75 Each operation that changes the hue or brightness or lightness (or red, green or blue amount) of the pixels needs to round, and if you round to full $100 (8bit, like aRGB or sRGB) you get bad errors, if you round to the last cent (more like 16 bit) you get much smaller errors. Note, $0.0049 would still be cut away in rounding ... |
#4
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Assign and then convert to Adobe RGB (1998), or skip assignment.
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