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Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.



 
 
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  #41  
Old January 31st 11, 03:03 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.




On 1/30/11 2:21 PM, in article
2011013012211397157-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2011-01-30 12:10:07 -0800, George Kerby said:




On 1/30/11 1:35 PM, in article
, "peter"
wrote:

On 1/30/2011 9:22 AM, tony cooper wrote:


David is correct in one sense, but he's not very good at critical
thinking.

A 20 year-old unemployed motorcyclist was killed this weekend in a
road accident. The local television station devoted a segment to the
story and the local newspaper gave it two column-inches.

Dozens of Iraqis died this weekend from various acts of violence.
They were not named in the newspaper here and the local television
stations made only a general reference to violence in Iraq.

Would David's Martian conclude that one Orlando resident has more
worth than a few dozen Iraqis, or would the Martian understand that
newspapers and television news programs give space and time to what is
of local interest?

When a soldier from Orlando is killed in action in one of the Mideast
conflict areas, that individual's death - and the family he/she leaves
behind - is given somewhat extensive coverage in the Orlando media
outlets. The dozens of deaths in the same time period of residents of
that area rates coverage only if they all go at once or in some noted
incident.

Is this valuing an American higher than an Afghani or an Iraqi? Or is
it just the media doing what is supposed to do in reporting to the
public that the media serves?



the flip side of that is how much coverage did the motorcyclist get in
the Iraqi and Afghan press?


BINGO!


Ta! Da!

...and the Martian is still able to snack on Kansan, Texan, Iraqi, or

Tunisian, without any discernible change in favor. (Though some might
have a slight oiliness.)

A virtual Whitman Sampler, indeed!

  #42  
Old January 31st 11, 03:11 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.




On 1/30/11 7:40 PM, in article
, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-01-30 12:10:07 -0800, George Kerby
said:



On 1/30/11 1:35 PM, in article
, "peter"
wrote:

On 1/30/2011 9:22 AM, tony cooper wrote:


David is correct in one sense, but he's not very good at critical
thinking.

A 20 year-old unemployed motorcyclist was killed this weekend in a
road accident. The local television station devoted a segment to
the story and the local newspaper gave it two column-inches.

Dozens of Iraqis died this weekend from various acts of violence.
They were not named in the newspaper here and the local television
stations made only a general reference to violence in Iraq.

Would David's Martian conclude that one Orlando resident has more
worth than a few dozen Iraqis, or would the Martian understand that
newspapers and television news programs give space and time to
what is of local interest?

When a soldier from Orlando is killed in action in one of the
Mideast conflict areas, that individual's death - and the family
he/she leaves behind - is given somewhat extensive coverage in the
Orlando media outlets. The dozens of deaths in the same time
period of residents of that area rates coverage only if they all
go at once or in some noted incident.

Is this valuing an American higher than an Afghani or an Iraqi? Or is
it just the media doing what is supposed to do in reporting
to the public that the media serves?



the flip side of that is how much coverage did the motorcyclist get
in the Iraqi and Afghan press?


BINGO!


Ta! Da!

...and the Martian is still able to snack on Kansan, Texan, Iraqi, or
Tunisian, without any discernible change in favor. (Though some might
have a slight oiliness.)


But, as the cook said to the cannibal who complained about the excessive
price of "hippie" on the menue: "Did you ever try to clean one of those
things?"


That is a question unique to No-Cal Martians.

  #43  
Old January 31st 11, 03:21 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

On 2011-01-30 17:40:41 -0800, "Bill Graham" said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-01-30 12:10:07 -0800, George Kerby
said:



the flip side of that is how much coverage did the motorcyclist get
in the Iraqi and Afghan press?


BINGO!


Ta! Da!

...and the Martian is still able to snack on Kansan, Texan, Iraqi, or
Tunisian, without any discernible change in favor. (Though some might
have a slight oiliness.)


But, as the cook said to the cannibal who complained about the
excessive price of "hippie" on the menue: "Did you ever try to clean
one of those things?"


Bill, you of all people should know better. Just like any rough skinned
fruit, you have to peel them first.

....and the "hippie" has been pre-seasoned with secret herbs & spices.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #44  
Old January 31st 11, 03:30 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

On 2011-01-30 18:03:29 -0800, George Kerby said:

On 1/30/11 2:21 PM, in article
2011013012211397157-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2011-01-30 12:10:07 -0800, George Kerby said:




the flip side of that is how much coverage did the motorcyclist get in
the Iraqi and Afghan press?


BINGO!


Ta! Da!

...and the Martian is still able to snack on Kansan, Texan, Iraqi, or

Tunisian, without any discernible change in favor. (Though some might
have a slight oiliness.)

A virtual Whitman Sampler, indeed!


Sooner or later the old farts among us are going to get the Rod Serling
reference.
http://thurly.net/0ruh


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #45  
Old January 31st 11, 03:35 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
David Nebenzahl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,353
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

On 1/30/2011 3:32 PM Savageduck spake thus:

On 2011-01-30 14:11:14 -0800, David Nebenzahl
said:

I believe my example proves otherwise. Either we're hypocrites, in
which case you can apply the 13:1 ratio of the relative worth of
human life, or ... I don't know what the alternative is here.


Yup! We are for the most part hypocrites, blind to the other side of

the fence.

OK. I will accept that as at least partial agreement with the point I
was trying to make about the (perceived, not actual) relative value of
human life ...


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
  #46  
Old January 31st 11, 03:41 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
David Nebenzahl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,353
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

On 1/30/2011 3:03 PM tony cooper spake thus:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:11:14 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Let me use the example of the Vietnam War (esp. since "savageduck"
seems sorta fixated on this "conflict"): I offer proof of the
relative worth of human life by way of how the wrong number is
always used to describe this conflict.

I'm talking, of course, about 55,000.

As opposed to that other number, somewhere in the vicinity of 1 to
3 million. (It's actually not known just how many Vietnamese were
killed during this war.)

Taking the average estimate of Vietnamese killed (1.5 million), I
get a ratio of 27:1. Factoring out the "local vs. distant" bias,
let's divide this by two. That still leaves a ratio of 13:1.

Of course, even this could be dismissed as simply a matter of local
vs. distant interest, except for the implicit assumption (mostly
honored in the breach) that "all men are created equal"--not just
nationally, but globally. In other words, we (the U.S.) always take
great pains to claim how much we believe in the Rights of Man
everywhere, not just in our Homeland.

I believe my example proves otherwise. Either we're hypocrites, in
which case you can apply the 13:1 ratio of the relative worth of
human life, or ... I don't know what the alternative is here.


I'm not at all sure what you attempted to prove. The US government
kept track of how many and fatalities suffered by the US troops.
Evidently, neither the US government or the Vietnamese governments
(North and South) kept track of how many Vietnamese were killed. It
was not known by either government how many Vietnamese combat
participants there were. The North Vietnamese were really not into
sharing information, or - perhaps - even in gathering information.

The structure of the US military allowed the government to keep track.
The structure of the Vietnamese system did not. Is this somehow a
failing of the US?

You say the wrong number is used. From what perspective? If a number
is used by an American author, an American media organization, or the
American government, is not the number of Americans killed the number
of interest?


I think you're being excessively dense here, almost wilfully obtuse, but
I'll play along anyhow.

The point I was trying to make is that when discussing the Vietnam War
with an American audience, the number of dead is inevitably given as
50-something thousand. (Savageduck pointed out that the actual number is
close to 58K.) Never a *mention* of the far greater losses on the other
side. To me, this is an unconscionable omission. Even if it is written
by an American author in an American media organization to an American
audience.

Either human life is worth exactly the same everywhere around the world
or it isn't. Or, as Savageduck seems to agree, we're hypocrites.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
  #47  
Old January 31st 11, 04:53 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

On 2011-01-30 19:33:43 -0800, John A. said:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:30:38 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2011-01-30 18:03:29 -0800, George Kerby said:

On 1/30/11 2:21 PM, in article
2011013012211397157-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2011-01-30 12:10:07 -0800, George Kerby said:




the flip side of that is how much coverage did the motorcyclist get in
the Iraqi and Afghan press?


BINGO!

Ta! Da!

...and the Martian is still able to snack on Kansan, Texan, Iraqi, or

Tunisian, without any discernible change in favor. (Though some might
have a slight oiliness.)

A virtual Whitman Sampler, indeed!


Sooner or later the old farts among us are going to get the Rod Serling
reference.
http://thurly.net/0ruh


I think you mean Damon Knight. I actually read the story before ever
seeing the TV adaptation.


Yes, however, the mainstream of the 60's were more likely to have seen
the "Twilight Zone" episode than to have read Knight.



--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #48  
Old January 31st 11, 05:08 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Tony Cooper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,748
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:41:01 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 1/30/2011 3:03 PM tony cooper spake thus:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:11:14 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Let me use the example of the Vietnam War (esp. since "savageduck"
seems sorta fixated on this "conflict"): I offer proof of the
relative worth of human life by way of how the wrong number is
always used to describe this conflict.

I'm talking, of course, about 55,000.

As opposed to that other number, somewhere in the vicinity of 1 to
3 million. (It's actually not known just how many Vietnamese were
killed during this war.)

Taking the average estimate of Vietnamese killed (1.5 million), I
get a ratio of 27:1. Factoring out the "local vs. distant" bias,
let's divide this by two. That still leaves a ratio of 13:1.

Of course, even this could be dismissed as simply a matter of local
vs. distant interest, except for the implicit assumption (mostly
honored in the breach) that "all men are created equal"--not just
nationally, but globally. In other words, we (the U.S.) always take
great pains to claim how much we believe in the Rights of Man
everywhere, not just in our Homeland.

I believe my example proves otherwise. Either we're hypocrites, in
which case you can apply the 13:1 ratio of the relative worth of
human life, or ... I don't know what the alternative is here.


I'm not at all sure what you attempted to prove. The US government
kept track of how many and fatalities suffered by the US troops.
Evidently, neither the US government or the Vietnamese governments
(North and South) kept track of how many Vietnamese were killed. It
was not known by either government how many Vietnamese combat
participants there were. The North Vietnamese were really not into
sharing information, or - perhaps - even in gathering information.

The structure of the US military allowed the government to keep track.
The structure of the Vietnamese system did not. Is this somehow a
failing of the US?

You say the wrong number is used. From what perspective? If a number
is used by an American author, an American media organization, or the
American government, is not the number of Americans killed the number
of interest?


I think you're being excessively dense here, almost wilfully obtuse, but
I'll play along anyhow.

The point I was trying to make is that when discussing the Vietnam War
with an American audience, the number of dead is inevitably given as
50-something thousand. (Savageduck pointed out that the actual number is
close to 58K.) Never a *mention* of the far greater losses on the other
side. To me, this is an unconscionable omission. Even if it is written
by an American author in an American media organization to an American
audience.


For your point to make any sense at all, you would have to provide
some context where both figures would be required to provide a fair
and useful comparison, and then you would have to defend your claim
that there is "never" a mention of the other side's losses. That is
beyond your reach and smacks of no more than hand-waving.

Most books or instances of media coverage present an analysis from a
particular perspective. If that perspective is that of the US, then
an emphasis on US losses is eminently fair.

Either human life is worth exactly the same everywhere around the world
or it isn't.


That, in this context, is a non sequitur of nonpareil dimension. An
accounting of lives lost has nothing whatsoever to do with a valuation
of human life. It's a quantitative statement, not a qualitative
statement.

To conform to that rather absurd premise, the death of each individual
would have to be reported with equal space (print media) or equal time
(visual/audio media).
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #49  
Old January 31st 11, 08:21 PM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.




On 1/30/11 8:30 PM, in article
2011013018303851816-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2011-01-30 18:03:29 -0800, George Kerby said:

On 1/30/11 2:21 PM, in article
2011013012211397157-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2011-01-30 12:10:07 -0800, George Kerby said:




the flip side of that is how much coverage did the motorcyclist get in
the Iraqi and Afghan press?


BINGO!

Ta! Da!

...and the Martian is still able to snack on Kansan, Texan, Iraqi, or

Tunisian, without any discernible change in favor. (Though some might
have a slight oiliness.)

A virtual Whitman Sampler, indeed!


Sooner or later the old farts among us are going to get the Rod Serling
reference.
http://thurly.net/0ruh

I liked the "From Dust to Dessert" reference.

  #50  
Old February 1st 11, 03:23 AM posted to alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
peter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 803
Default Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

On 1/30/2011 8:40 PM, Bill Graham wrote:


But, as the cook said to the cannibal who complained about the excessive
price of "hippie" on the menue: "Did you ever try to clean one of those
things?"



I know a wildlife photographer who always wears a watch when
photographing cannibals.

He fears being boiled alive and figures that a watched kettle never boils.

--
Peter
 




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