[expert? ] ARGH! strange effect on negatives

Hallo.
this week another error or strange effect on a negative. This time is
very very difficult to understand.

Negative was Neopan 400
developed in Microphen 1+1 7'30" @ 20°C
stop in water
fix with Ilford RapidFix 8'
washed for 10'
Once

The negative has perfect contrast, density and so forth.
+Once dryed so the negative looks quite good
but the real problem is the emulsion side surface.
Usually this surface is quite smoot, not glossy like the other side, but
smooth.
This time i feel the surface like satin, with some noise when touching.
Like touching a very fine sand.
First time in 12 years, again.
under strong magnification under my Durst "sandy surface" it seems like
bubbles, everywhere in hilights and in low lights indifferently.

Once printed here are some results.

http://www.bramatobros.com/posts/24092004/


Pics are quite heavy and large to allow a good vision of the problem.


I need some serious help because this error in a batch of 4 roll it
happens everytime in different intensity. But it happens and pratically
my films are useless...

Are this lot of film defective?
Are this films burned by something in developing? No acid stop and
normal fixing time was used.

In the meantime i'm testing another kind of batch of strips of this film
to test with Ilfosol and ID-11 as my usual developers...

HELP!!
--
Non è bello cio che è bello figuriamoci cio che è brutto!

When someone flushes the toilet often the shower goes cold and you jump,
similarly when film gets the cold shower effect it reacts. Even more so
when the wash goes very hot compared to the previous bath or wash.

When someone flushes the toilet often the shower goes cold and you jump,
similarly when film gets the cold shower effect it reacts. Even more so
when the wash goes very hot compared to the previous bath or wash.

"winddancing" schreef in bericht
...
| When someone flushes the toilet often the shower goes cold and you jump,
| similarly when film gets the cold shower effect it reacts. Even more so
| when the wash goes very hot compared to the previous bath or wash.
|
|
Do you suspect Stefano's films of reticulation, 'winddancing'? I'm rather
dubious that's the problem; reticulation shows cracks that make the print
look like a landscape where a burning sun has dried the mud. And I don't
believe you can actually _feel_ reticulation (no experience, never succeeded
in reticulating a film ;-)).

I notice those 'bubbles' print lighter than their surroundings, so they must
have a dark or opaque appearance on the negative. As you can feel them,
Stefano, they can be deposits from the wash water or dust settling down when
the film hangs drying (I bet on the first).

As your negatives look - sorry for my hard verdict - rather lost, you can
try this experiment: rewash the film (or a single band of negs for a
careful test); after washing, soak in deminaralised water with wetting
agent, hang to dry in a _dust free_ room at room temparature (bathrooms are
mostly the least dusted places in our homes). Hang the film, tip toe away
and gently close the door until next morning. Carefully control the
temperature of the wash water and demin. water! To cold doesn't wash well,
to hot makes the emulsion very week, switching from hotter to colder (-5°C)
can make the emulsion reticulate.

If this rewashing doesn't help, you can try gently wiping the negs (after
another washing session + soaking in demin. water & wetting agent) with a
_clean_ (new) chamois leather. This _can_ (allmost certainly) give scratches
on the film, but when it solves your problem, I mean: when your 'bubbles'
are gone, you can at least assume that my diagnosis comes close to the truth
and you'll be able to prevent it in the future with the above procedure.

Jan

"winddancing" schreef in bericht
...
| When someone flushes the toilet often the shower goes cold and you jump,
| similarly when film gets the cold shower effect it reacts. Even more so
| when the wash goes very hot compared to the previous bath or wash.
|
|
Do you suspect Stefano's films of reticulation, 'winddancing'? I'm rather
dubious that's the problem; reticulation shows cracks that make the print
look like a landscape where a burning sun has dried the mud. And I don't
believe you can actually _feel_ reticulation (no experience, never succeeded
in reticulating a film ;-)).

I notice those 'bubbles' print lighter than their surroundings, so they must
have a dark or opaque appearance on the negative. As you can feel them,
Stefano, they can be deposits from the wash water or dust settling down when
the film hangs drying (I bet on the first).

As your negatives look - sorry for my hard verdict - rather lost, you can
try this experiment: rewash the film (or a single band of negs for a
careful test); after washing, soak in deminaralised water with wetting
agent, hang to dry in a _dust free_ room at room temparature (bathrooms are
mostly the least dusted places in our homes). Hang the film, tip toe away
and gently close the door until next morning. Carefully control the
temperature of the wash water and demin. water! To cold doesn't wash well,
to hot makes the emulsion very week, switching from hotter to colder (-5°C)
can make the emulsion reticulate.

If this rewashing doesn't help, you can try gently wiping the negs (after
another washing session + soaking in demin. water & wetting agent) with a
_clean_ (new) chamois leather. This _can_ (allmost certainly) give scratches
on the film, but when it solves your problem, I mean: when your 'bubbles'
are gone, you can at least assume that my diagnosis comes close to the truth
and you'll be able to prevent it in the future with the above procedure.

Jan

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:28:38 -0700, "winddancing"
wrote:

When someone flushes the toilet often the shower goes cold and you jump,
similarly when film gets the cold shower effect it reacts. Even more so
when the wash goes very hot compared to the previous bath or wash.

The degree of effect is dependant upon the film though. TMX
and TMY are hardened and don't reticulate as easily as other "old
tech" films.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:46:48 +0200, "Jan T"
wrote:

Do you suspect Stefano's films of reticulation, 'winddancing'? I'm rather
dubious that's the problem; reticulation shows cracks that make the print
look like a landscape where a burning sun has dried the mud. And I don't
believe you can actually _feel_ reticulation (no experience, never succeeded
in reticulating a film ;-)).

If the film is _severely_ reticulated, the emulsion will be
wrinkled. I believe that this extreme can be felt.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:46:48 +0200, "Jan T"
wrote:

Do you suspect Stefano's films of reticulation, 'winddancing'? I'm rather
dubious that's the problem; reticulation shows cracks that make the print
look like a landscape where a burning sun has dried the mud. And I don't
believe you can actually _feel_ reticulation (no experience, never succeeded
in reticulating a film ;-)).

If the film is _severely_ reticulated, the emulsion will be
wrinkled. I believe that this extreme can be felt.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:53:29 GMT, stefano bramato
wrote:

Hallo.
this week another error or strange effect on a negative. This time is
very very difficult to understand.

Negative was Neopan 400
developed in Microphen 1+1 7'30" @ 20°C
stop in water
fix with Ilford RapidFix 8'
washed for 10'
Once

The negative has perfect contrast, density and so forth.
+Once dryed so the negative looks quite good
but the real problem is the emulsion side surface.
Usually this surface is quite smoot, not glossy like the other side, but
smooth.
This time i feel the surface like satin, with some noise when touching.
Like touching a very fine sand.
First time in 12 years, again.
under strong magnification under my Durst "sandy surface" it seems like
bubbles, everywhere in hilights and in low lights indifferently.

Once printed here are some results.

http://www.bramatobros.com/posts/24092004/


Pics are quite heavy and large to allow a good vision of the problem.


I need some serious help because this error in a batch of 4 roll it
happens everytime in different intensity. But it happens and pratically
my films are useless...

Are this lot of film defective?

Perhaps

Are this films burned by something in developing?

Doubtful.
No acid stop and
normal fixing time was used.

I saw something like this in a demo by an old hand lab technician. He
was debunking the standard idea that this only came from high
Carbonate developers with an acid stop. He used some other kind of
developer and a very strong fix. There were bubbles and pinholes
galore. Something like this eems to fit your problem negs.

Try a test with Microphen again, and use an acid stop.

Another consideration, beside the method and timing of the water bath,
which may have been too short, is the strength of the rapid fix. I
wonder if the length of time used for this step may be too long.

Anyone?
In the meantime i'm testing another kind of batch of strips of this film
to test with Ilfosol and ID-11 as my usual developers...

HELP!!

Robert Vervoordt, MFA

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:53:29 GMT, stefano bramato
wrote:

Hallo.
this week another error or strange effect on a negative. This time is
very very difficult to understand.

Negative was Neopan 400
developed in Microphen 1+1 7'30" @ 20°C
stop in water
fix with Ilford RapidFix 8'
washed for 10'
Once

The negative has perfect contrast, density and so forth.
+Once dryed so the negative looks quite good
but the real problem is the emulsion side surface.
Usually this surface is quite smoot, not glossy like the other side, but
smooth.
This time i feel the surface like satin, with some noise when touching.
Like touching a very fine sand.
First time in 12 years, again.
under strong magnification under my Durst "sandy surface" it seems like
bubbles, everywhere in hilights and in low lights indifferently.

Once printed here are some results.

http://www.bramatobros.com/posts/24092004/


Pics are quite heavy and large to allow a good vision of the problem.


I need some serious help because this error in a batch of 4 roll it
happens everytime in different intensity. But it happens and pratically
my films are useless...

Are this lot of film defective?

Perhaps

Are this films burned by something in developing?

Doubtful.
No acid stop and
normal fixing time was used.

I saw something like this in a demo by an old hand lab technician. He
was debunking the standard idea that this only came from high
Carbonate developers with an acid stop. He used some other kind of
developer and a very strong fix. There were bubbles and pinholes
galore. Something like this eems to fit your problem negs.

Try a test with Microphen again, and use an acid stop.

Another consideration, beside the method and timing of the water bath,
which may have been too short, is the strength of the rapid fix. I
wonder if the length of time used for this step may be too long.

Anyone?
In the meantime i'm testing another kind of batch of strips of this film
to test with Ilfosol and ID-11 as my usual developers...

HELP!!

Robert Vervoordt, MFA