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First time owner of a 35mm Camera



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 17th 12, 01:08 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
William Hamblen
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Default First time owner of a 35mm Camera

On 2012-03-15, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

There's much more difference than that; vertical shutters are metal
blades, whereas horizontal ones are cloth curtains.


Or titanium foil curtains.

Completely
different designs. I don't think the angle issues you're raising have
any relevance at all to why different shutters are chosen for various
cameras.


I suspect Nikon believed the horizontally running shutters in their F series
were more durable than the vertically running shutters in their compact
bodies.

Bud
  #22  
Old March 17th 12, 04:18 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Pete A
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On 2012-03-17 00:08:14 +0000, William Hamblen said:

On 2012-03-15, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

There's much more difference than that; vertical shutters are metal
blades, whereas horizontal ones are cloth curtains.


Or titanium foil curtains.

Completely
different designs. I don't think the angle issues you're raising have
any relevance at all to why different shutters are chosen for various
cameras.


I suspect Nikon believed the horizontally running shutters in their F series
were more durable than the vertically running shutters in their compact
bodies.


I was under the impression that Nikon switched from titanium shutter
curtains to aluminum because the production of titanium is
environmentally unfriendly. I have a vague recollection of being
dismayed shortly after because another manufacturer decided to adorn
their products with a titanium finish just because it looked pretty.
Does anyone remember this or is my memory playing up as it often does?

  #23  
Old March 17th 12, 04:33 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
William Hamblen
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Default First time owner of a 35mm Camera

On 2012-03-17, Pete A wrote:
On 2012-03-17 00:08:14 +0000, William Hamblen said:

On 2012-03-15, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

There's much more difference than that; vertical shutters are metal
blades, whereas horizontal ones are cloth curtains.


Or titanium foil curtains.

Completely
different designs. I don't think the angle issues you're raising have
any relevance at all to why different shutters are chosen for various
cameras.


I suspect Nikon believed the horizontally running shutters in their F series
were more durable than the vertically running shutters in their compact
bodies.


I was under the impression that Nikon switched from titanium shutter
curtains to aluminum because the production of titanium is
environmentally unfriendly. I have a vague recollection of being
dismayed shortly after because another manufacturer decided to adorn
their products with a titanium finish just because it looked pretty.
Does anyone remember this or is my memory playing up as it often does?


The shutter on the FM2 changed from titanium to aluminum during its production
run. These were not "curtains" as in the F/F2/F3, however.

Bud
  #24  
Old March 17th 12, 05:30 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Noons
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Default First time owner of a 35mm Camera

Ian wrote,on my timestamp of 17/03/2012 4:46 AM:

I used both types of shutter and found that the vertical shutter was less
liable to shake at slow shutter speeds than the horizontal one.
I think (it was a long time ago) that I compared the Canon A1 (horizontal
shutter) and T90 (vertical shutter). Using a 50mm lens, the slowest
shakefree speed with the horizontal shutter was 1/30 or 1/60 and the slowest
shakefree speed with the vertical shutter was 1/8 or 1/15.


Ah well, that's what you get when you compare a camera 10 years younger than
another. It's got nothing to do with the direction of the shutter and all to do
with a more modern design with better dampening. Besides, the A1 was notoriously
under-dampened in the mirror box and that had a major impact. The only way to
accurately compare those two for shutter vibration is to use each with the
mirror up.

Try using a Konica Hexar or ZI RF with vertical shutter and a Leica with
horizontal and then you'll clearly see the difference.
  #25  
Old March 17th 12, 05:33 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Noons
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David Dyer-Bennet wrote,on my timestamp of 17/03/2012 1:42 AM:


(And now I'm not sure about the F, either; I only owned one of those
briefly, and only when it was quite old technology. Horizontal, I'm
sure, but material I'm not.

Okay, if I'm reading this right, this says Nikon switched the F to
titanium curtains early in its life.http://imaging.nikon.com/history/legendary/rhnc12ti-e/index.htm


Looking at my F's shutter, it looks like a thin metal of some sort, so I guess
titaniun is a good punt.
  #26  
Old March 19th 12, 03:19 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
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Default First time owner of a 35mm Camera

(Edward A. Falk) writes:

In article ,
Robert Coe wrote:

All of my film Nikons had a horizontal shutter, but the shutter on my wife's
Nikkormat was vertical.


BTW, for the original poster: although horizontal vs vertical is an
interesting topic, it's not actually important for a beginner to care
about this. I own three Nikons right now, and although I *think* they
all have vertical shutters, I'm not positive.


Yes, I agree completely. This is esoteric trivia. I'm enjoying that,
but it's NOT of any basic importance. (It may be of importance for
planning some very specific photos, in theory. If you're actively
looking for focal plane distortions for example, which way the shutter
goes makes a huge difference to how the result looks.)

It's really not something you care about unless you're doing high-speed
photography of action scenes, and usually not even then. It can also
affect flash sync speeds, but that's another advanced topic.


Exactly.

And you just need to know what the flash sync speed for your camera
*is*; you don't need to know why (and it's marked on the shutter speed
dial on the old cameras that have such a primitive device).
--
David Dyer-Bennet,
; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #27  
Old March 21st 12, 02:20 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Robert Coe
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On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:23:25 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes:
:
: David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
:
:
: I believe all the Nikkormats had vertical shutters. The Ft, which was
: quite early, is described as having a vertical shutter and 1/125 sec
: flash sync in multiple online sources, for example. I remember the FTN
: as having 1/125 sync as well, and I believe that was always a sign of
: a vertical shutter.
:
: Yes. I think the Ft was the first. It's predecssor was the Nikkorex F, which
: was made by Mamiya for Nikon. I believe the shutter was made by Copal.
:
: The Nikkormat Ftn, was an Ft with center weighted metering. This matched the
: metering of the Photomic Ftn finder on the F.
:
: The same shutter was used in all the Nikkormats (Ft, FTn, Ft2, Ft3) and an
: electronicaly timed version was used in the EL and EL2.
:
: If not the same, very similar shutters were used in the FM and FE.
:
: They did move faster; sync at 1/200 and then 1/250th.
:
: The cameras with curtain shutters (F/F2/F3) had a top flash sync of 1/90th.
:
: The F at least was 1/60, which was the common standard on all the
: horizontal cloth-curtain bodies I've owned (Miranda Sensorex, Leica M3,
: Pentax Spotmatic) and many I've read up on or examined.
:
: The F3 had 1/80 sync speed according to multiple online references (I
: never owned one).
:
: I think the F2 initiated the 1/80 sync speed, but I never owned one of
: those, either, and online references aren't quite as clear to my eyes
: (photos of F3 shutter speed dials are pretty clear).

I had an F2 (still do, I guess, but I'd have to dig it out of the closet), and
1/80 doesn't sound right to me. It may have been 1/120; but if I were a
betting man, I'd say 1/60. Before the F2, I had an S2 (1/30) and an SP
(possibly 1/60).

Bob
  #28  
Old March 21st 12, 08:48 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Pete A
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Posts: 204
Default First time owner of a 35mm Camera

On 2012-03-21 01:20:12 +0000, Robert Coe said:

On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:23:25 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" writes:
:
: David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
:
:
: I believe all the Nikkormats had vertical shutters. The Ft, which was
: quite early, is described as having a vertical shutter and 1/125 sec
: flash sync in multiple online sources, for example. I remember the FTN
: as having 1/125 sync as well, and I believe that was always a sign of
: a vertical shutter.
:
: Yes. I think the Ft was the first. It's predecssor was the Nikkorex
F, which
: was made by Mamiya for Nikon. I believe the shutter was made by Copal.
:
: The Nikkormat Ftn, was an Ft with center weighted metering. This
matched the
: metering of the Photomic Ftn finder on the F.
:
: The same shutter was used in all the Nikkormats (Ft, FTn, Ft2, Ft3) and an
: electronicaly timed version was used in the EL and EL2.
:
: If not the same, very similar shutters were used in the FM and FE.
:
: They did move faster; sync at 1/200 and then 1/250th.
:
: The cameras with curtain shutters (F/F2/F3) had a top flash sync of 1/90th.
:
: The F at least was 1/60, which was the common standard on all the
: horizontal cloth-curtain bodies I've owned (Miranda Sensorex, Leica M3,
: Pentax Spotmatic) and many I've read up on or examined.
:
: The F3 had 1/80 sync speed according to multiple online references (I
: never owned one).
:
: I think the F2 initiated the 1/80 sync speed, but I never owned one of
: those, either, and online references aren't quite as clear to my eyes
: (photos of F3 shutter speed dials are pretty clear).

I had an F2 (still do, I guess, but I'd have to dig it out of the closet), and
1/80 doesn't sound right to me. It may have been 1/120; but if I were a
betting man, I'd say 1/60. Before the F2, I had an S2 (1/30) and an SP
(possibly 1/60).



The F2 X-sync of 1/80 s was indicated by a red line on the dial:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf2/htmls/index2.htm


  #29  
Old March 21st 12, 09:57 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Eric Stevens
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Default First time owner of a 35mm Camera

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:21:45 +0000, Pete A
wrote:

Any half-decent painter does HDR without even realizing yet the
temporal aspect of nature usually escapes them. Get real, painting a
sunset takes longer than it takes the sun to set!


Yet, I've got a photograph of a sunset which over a period of time
turned into a sunrise.

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #30  
Old March 22nd 12, 12:21 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Pete A
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Default First time owner of a 35mm Camera

On 2012-03-21 20:57:19 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:21:45 +0000, Pete A wrote:

Any half-decent painter does HDR without even realizing yet the
temporal aspect of nature usually escapes them. Get real, painting a
sunset takes longer than it takes the sun to set!


Yet, I've got a photograph of a sunset which over a period of time
turned into a sunrise.


Being at a latitude of about 52 degrees, I hope I only encounter that
by falling asleep during the shoot.

 




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