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Kodak to stop making digital cameras



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 11th 12, 01:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 2012-02-10 18:30 , Mxsmanic wrote:
Alan Browne writes:

Can creditors make claims on the patents and sell them (?).


If they are owned by the corporation, yes. I'm not sure if that's true for
patents owned by individuals, I think it depends on the jurisdiction.

Disposable shaving blade model.


The problem is that there are strong competitors already using that model, and
there's no reason at all why Kodak would have any special chance of outrunning
them.


Old news, unfortunately.

To be fair Kodak did try to change the model by putting more value in
the printer and less in the ink. In principle the printers are more
expensive and the cost per printed sheet a lot less (v. hp, Epson,
Canon, etc.). I have no idea if that's how it works out in the real world.

--
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
Douglas Adams - (Could have been a GPS engineer).
  #12  
Old February 11th 12, 02:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
PeterN
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Posts: 3,039
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 2/9/2012 7:19 PM, RichA wrote:
On Feb 9, 6:05 pm, Alan
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/...uters-kodak.ht...
or -http://tinyurl.com/7fc5nzs

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...out-digital-ca...
or -http://tinyurl.com/88kq392

Trying to sell patents...
Trying to license its brand...

Will focus on printers (they are 6th in the market ... what did Jack
Welch used to say...).


They are in serious trouble if they think printers are a going
concern.


Kodak made a big mistake when they didn't hire you as a consultant.

--
Peter
  #13  
Old February 11th 12, 02:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo
PeterN
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Posts: 3,039
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 2/10/2012 4:55 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2012-02-10 11:40 , Bruce wrote:
wrote:
On 10/02/2012 9:05 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
Will focus on printers (they are 6th in the market ... what did Jack
Welch used to say...).

I suppose they're still selling large sensors to Hasselblad and perhaps
others.


Re-inventing the wheel has never been a brilliant business plan.



I see Alan Browne is showing (yet again) his near-total ignorance of
the photo industry. I suppose it matches his ignorance across a broad
range of topics related to photography, so it is to be expected.

For those who are interested in the facts, rather than the usual
Browne BS, Kodak sold its sensor design and manufacturing business to
Platinum Equity in early November 2011. It was widely reported across
the photo web sites and in printed media and discussed on Usenet photo
newsgroups:


Really "Bruce", do you lay in wait for my slightest error to make an ad
hominem attack? Pathetic is too light a word for your ... condition.

With that in mind however, let me refer to some facts since you seem so
fond of them:

QUOTE
But I must be fair to the 75-150mm f/4 Zuiko; it made me money,
because the results were good enough for several picture
editors. One of my shots taken with this lens was on the cover
of "Paris Match" in the late 1970s. The two most "profitable"
lenses I owned were this and the 24mm f/2.8 Zuiko, which is a
fine lens and every bit the equal of the Nikkor.

..
Tony Polson, North Yorkshire, UK
UNQUOTE

ref:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/uk.r...w/uyb4AdyG_x4J

What editor Tony?
What edition of Paris Match Tony?

C'mon Tony. Show us your "prowess".

Or should these photographic "facts" taken by you suffice to demonstrate
your actual abilities?

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000a.jpg
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000b.jpg
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000c.jpg
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000d.jpg



Do you expect consistency from Brucie?

--
Peter
  #14  
Old February 11th 12, 03:09 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

In article , PeterN
wrote:

On 2/9/2012 7:19 PM, RichA wrote:
They are in serious trouble if they think printers are a going
concern.


Kodak made a big mistake when they didn't hire you as a consultant.


yes they did. it would have kept him busy and he wouldn't have time to
post here.
  #15  
Old February 11th 12, 04:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,640
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

[re-posted - I don't see the post on my newsreader]

On 2012-02-10 11:23 , Chloe wrote:
On 10/02/2012 9:05 AM, Alan Browne wrote:

Will focus on printers (they are 6th in the market ... what did Jack
Welch used to say...).

I suppose they're still selling large sensors to Hasselblad and perhaps
others.


Re-inventing the wheel has never been a brilliant business plan.
Especially when your rivals already lead the field with innovative
products.


I believe Kodak had a brilliant chance to lead, but they took several
missteps. The rest ...

Concentrating on printers makes perfectly good sense for a company who's
history has always been about selling stuff to make pictures with.

I remember way back when my mother (May she forever lie in peace) took
me to town to buy me a darkroom kit for my 12th birthday. For many years
after that I always bought from the Kodak shop. Paper, Chemicals dishes
and various darkroom tools.


My first exp. in a darkroom was with a friend who's parents helped him
get started.

For my 15th Birthday she once again went to the Kodak shop. This time to
buy me a Kodak Retinette 1A camera. My first 35mm camera. In all the
film I shot with this camera were some of my most memorable photographs.
Family history of long gone, cherished relatives. My first of many
things recorded forever on Kodak film. Printed on Kodak paper and
developed in Kodak chemicals.

The camera was far from being a shining example of greatness. The
Voiglander I bought when I started work as a cub photographer was so
superior to the Kodak in every way, I often wondered why Kodak ever
bothered making cameras.


Their largest film markets were in selling family memories, not catering
to photographers. So the cameras had to be both cheap and simple. Good
enough for the market buying the film.

How ironic that a lifetime later, making cameras has sunk the company.


Over reliance on the printer market did that.

Now it they just get the cost of their wide format paper and packaged
photo paper under control and actually concentrate on being competitive
in the market place, They might just survive.


Hopefully.

BTW... Is there any valid reason for cross posting to similar groups
when everyone reads those groups too? Looks more like newsgroup spam
than legitimate news... As if there is anything newsworthy in the stuff
that get posted in these cross posted messages. More like plagiarism in
to eyes.


I've been a member of these and other photo NG's for well over 10 years.
I'm not a prolific x-poster, but I do x-post where I believe there
will be interest in it.

Chloe, I hope you participate in the current shoot-in, due this Sunday.
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/letter_u

Cheers,
Alan

--
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
Douglas Adams - (Could have been a GPS engineer).
  #16  
Old February 11th 12, 04:16 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
John Woolworth
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Posts: 1
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 2012-02-10 21:55:16 +0000, Alan Browne said:

On 2012-02-10 11:40 , Bruce wrote:
wrote:
On 10/02/2012 9:05 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
Will focus on printers (they are 6th in the market ... what did Jack
Welch used to say...).

I suppose they're still selling large sensors to Hasselblad and perhaps
others.


Re-inventing the wheel has never been a brilliant business plan.



I see Alan Browne is showing (yet again) his near-total ignorance of
the photo industry. I suppose it matches his ignorance across a broad
range of topics related to photography, so it is to be expected.

For those who are interested in the facts, rather than the usual
Browne BS, Kodak sold its sensor design and manufacturing business to
Platinum Equity in early November 2011. It was widely reported across
the photo web sites and in printed media and discussed on Usenet photo
newsgroups:


Really "Bruce", do you lay in wait for my slightest error to make an ad
hominem attack? Pathetic is too light a word for your ... condition.

With that in mind however, let me refer to some facts since you seem so
fond of them:

QUOTE
But I must be fair to the 75-150mm f/4 Zuiko; it made me money,
because the results were good enough for several picture
editors. One of my shots taken with this lens was on the cover
of "Paris Match" in the late 1970s. The two most "profitable"
lenses I owned were this and the 24mm f/2.8 Zuiko, which is a
fine lens and every bit the equal of the Nikkor.

..
Tony Polson, North Yorkshire, UK
UNQUOTE

ref: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/uk.r...w/uyb4AdyG_x4J

What editor Tony?
What edition of Paris Match Tony?

C'mon Tony. Show us your "prowess".

Or should these photographic "facts" taken by you suffice to
demonstrate your actual abilities?

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000a.jpg
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000b.jpg
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000c.jpg
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cg...-98/d9000d.jpg


Ouch.

  #17  
Old February 11th 12, 06:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Joe Kotroczo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 170
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 10/02/2012 00:05, Alan Browne wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/...l?ref=business
or - http://tinyurl.com/7fc5nzs

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...ankruptcy.html
or - http://tinyurl.com/88kq392

Trying to sell patents...
Trying to license its brand...

Will focus on printers (they are 6th in the market ... what did Jack
Welch used to say...).

I suppose they're still selling large sensors to Hasselblad and perhaps
others.


Nope, they sold their image sensor business to Platinum Equity back in
November

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204190704577024464175394328.html


--
Illegitimi non carborundum
  #18  
Old February 11th 12, 08:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,640
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 2012-02-11 12:16 , Joe Kotroczo wrote:
On 10/02/2012 00:05, Alan Browne wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/...l?ref=business

or - http://tinyurl.com/7fc5nzs

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...ankruptcy.html

or - http://tinyurl.com/88kq392

Trying to sell patents...
Trying to license its brand...

Will focus on printers (they are 6th in the market ... what did Jack
Welch used to say...).

I suppose they're still selling large sensors to Hasselblad and perhaps
others.


Nope, they sold their image sensor business to Platinum Equity back in
November


So I've been told...


--
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
Douglas Adams - (Could have been a GPS engineer).
  #19  
Old February 11th 12, 08:48 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Pete A
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 204
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 2012-02-10 22:04:20 +0000, Alan Browne said:

On 2012-02-09 19:56 , Mxsmanic wrote:
Alan Browne writes:

Trying to sell patents...


What will happen after all the patents are sold?

The idea behind patents is to be able to manufacture new inventions without
competition for a brief period. Just selling patents is a dead end.


Not selling them while the company disappears robs shareholders of
their value. OTOH, at the rate they're disappearing (equity wise) I'm
not sure there will be any cash left over after creditors take their
bites. Can creditors make claims on the patents and sell them (?).


I'd been wondering about the patents issue. Sorry this is long-winded,
but it suggests to me that it depends on the outcome of the ruling on
bankruptcy protection:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16625725

[...]


  #20  
Old February 11th 12, 09:06 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,640
Default Kodak to stop making digital cameras

On 2012-02-11 14:48 , Pete A wrote:
On 2012-02-10 22:04:20 +0000, Alan Browne said:

On 2012-02-09 19:56 , Mxsmanic wrote:
Alan Browne writes:

Trying to sell patents...

What will happen after all the patents are sold?

The idea behind patents is to be able to manufacture new inventions
without
competition for a brief period. Just selling patents is a dead end.


Not selling them while the company disappears robs shareholders of
their value. OTOH, at the rate they're disappearing (equity wise) I'm
not sure there will be any cash left over after creditors take their
bites. Can creditors make claims on the patents and sell them (?).


I'd been wondering about the patents issue. Sorry this is long-winded,
but it suggests to me that it depends on the outcome of the ruling on
bankruptcy protection:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16625725


Seen other similar articles. (NYT/Bberg/ etc.)

I really don't get why Citigroup has given them a $1B LOC - do they have
first dibs on patent sale revenue?

As usual, shareholders are the ones who get the least - in this case
activist sh's are trying to get organized:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards...ge_id=71623871

As to the patents, there does not seem to be a long line of people
lining up. Valuations vary between 2.4 and $2.75B - though Kodak
believe it has "higher strategic value" to the right suitor (whoever the
hell that is - eg: wishful).

--
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
Douglas Adams - (Could have been a GPS engineer).
 




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