Phenidon-base paper developer

Recently I was told that i would get richer blacks if I used a Phenidon-Base
developer when printing on Ilford MG. I use Polymax developer with list
phenol-sulfate. Is Polymax T paper develop Phenidon-Based? And does it really
give me the riches blacks? What about Dextol with respect to cold rich blacks?

Alan Tippett

"ATIPPETT" wrote in message
...
Recently I was told that i would get richer blacks if I
used a Phenidon-Base
developer when printing on Ilford MG. I use Polymax
developer with list
phenol-sulfate. Is Polymax T paper develop
Phenidon-Based? And does it really
give me the riches blacks? What about Dextol with respect
to cold rich blacks?

Alan Tippett

Polymax is liquid Dektol. It contains metol and
hydroquinone.
Ilford Bromophen is a Phenidone and hydroquinone
developer with applications similar to Dektol
In comparison Bromophen produces slightly colder blacks
with most papers, perhaps because of the Benzotraiazole in
it. Phenidone will give you no deper blacks blacks than
Metol, only, perhaps, slightly different color.
Agfa Neutol Plus is a Phenidone and ascorbic acid paper
developer, I think the only one on the market for paper.
Here is the formula for Ilford ID-62, which is essentially
identical to Bromophen.

Ilford ID-62

Developer for Films Plates and Paper

Stock Solution

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml

Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous 50.0 grams

Hydroquinone 12.0 grams

Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 60.0 grams

Phenidone 0.5 grams

Potassium Bromide 2.0 grams

Benzotriazole 0.2 grams

Water to make 1.0 liter

Dilute 1:1 to 1:3

Similar to Ilford Bromophen



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Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"ATIPPETT" wrote in message
...
Recently I was told that i would get richer blacks if I
used a Phenidon-Base
developer when printing on Ilford MG. I use Polymax
developer with list
phenol-sulfate. Is Polymax T paper develop
Phenidon-Based? And does it really
give me the riches blacks? What about Dextol with respect
to cold rich blacks?

Alan Tippett

Polymax is liquid Dektol. It contains metol and
hydroquinone.
Ilford Bromophen is a Phenidone and hydroquinone
developer with applications similar to Dektol
In comparison Bromophen produces slightly colder blacks
with most papers, perhaps because of the Benzotraiazole in
it. Phenidone will give you no deper blacks blacks than
Metol, only, perhaps, slightly different color.
Agfa Neutol Plus is a Phenidone and ascorbic acid paper
developer, I think the only one on the market for paper.
Here is the formula for Ilford ID-62, which is essentially
identical to Bromophen.

Ilford ID-62

Developer for Films Plates and Paper

Stock Solution

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml

Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous 50.0 grams

Hydroquinone 12.0 grams

Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 60.0 grams

Phenidone 0.5 grams

Potassium Bromide 2.0 grams

Benzotriazole 0.2 grams

Water to make 1.0 liter

Dilute 1:1 to 1:3

Similar to Ilford Bromophen



--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Richard Knoppow" wrote in message
...

Polymax is liquid Dektol. It contains metol and
hydroquinone.

Sure enough. I had thought that, like its predecessor Ektaflo, it contained
Dimezone, but I've just checked the MSDS. Why did they switch?

Ilford Bromophen is a Phenidone and hydroquinone
developer with applications similar to Dektol
In comparison Bromophen produces slightly colder blacks
with most papers, perhaps because of the Benzotraiazole in
it. Phenidone will give you no deper blacks blacks than
Metol, only, perhaps, slightly different color.
Agfa Neutol Plus is a Phenidone and ascorbic acid paper
developer, I think the only one on the market for paper.
Here is the formula for Ilford ID-62, which is essentially
identical to Bromophen.

Ilford ID-62

Developer for Films Plates and Paper

Stock Solution

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml

Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous 50.0 grams

Hydroquinone 12.0 grams

Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 60.0 grams

Phenidone 0.5 grams

Potassium Bromide 2.0 grams

Benzotriazole 0.2 grams

Water to make 1.0 liter

Dilute 1:1 to 1:3

Similar to Ilford Bromophen



--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Richard Knoppow" wrote in message
...

Polymax is liquid Dektol. It contains metol and
hydroquinone.

Sure enough. I had thought that, like its predecessor Ektaflo, it contained
Dimezone, but I've just checked the MSDS. Why did they switch?

Ilford Bromophen is a Phenidone and hydroquinone
developer with applications similar to Dektol
In comparison Bromophen produces slightly colder blacks
with most papers, perhaps because of the Benzotraiazole in
it. Phenidone will give you no deper blacks blacks than
Metol, only, perhaps, slightly different color.
Agfa Neutol Plus is a Phenidone and ascorbic acid paper
developer, I think the only one on the market for paper.
Here is the formula for Ilford ID-62, which is essentially
identical to Bromophen.

Ilford ID-62

Developer for Films Plates and Paper

Stock Solution

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml

Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous 50.0 grams

Hydroquinone 12.0 grams

Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 60.0 grams

Phenidone 0.5 grams

Potassium Bromide 2.0 grams

Benzotriazole 0.2 grams

Water to make 1.0 liter

Dilute 1:1 to 1:3

Similar to Ilford Bromophen



--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

ojunk (ATIPPETT) wrote in message ...
Recently I was told that i would get richer blacks if I used a Phenidon-Base
developer when printing on Ilford MG. I use Polymax developer with list
phenol-sulfate. Is Polymax T paper develop Phenidon-Based? And does it really
give me the riches blacks? What about Dextol with respect to cold rich blacks?

Alan Tippett

Phenidone and Amidol are both highly resistant to supresion by bromide
release. This means that in very dark areas, they will continue to
develop when metol and other developing agents cease working.

ojunk (ATIPPETT) wrote in message ...
Recently I was told that i would get richer blacks if I used a Phenidon-Base
developer when printing on Ilford MG. I use Polymax developer with list
phenol-sulfate. Is Polymax T paper develop Phenidon-Based? And does it really
give me the riches blacks? What about Dextol with respect to cold rich blacks?

Alan Tippett

Phenidone and Amidol are both highly resistant to supresion by bromide
release. This means that in very dark areas, they will continue to
develop when metol and other developing agents cease working.

Richard Koppow is correct. Phenidone-based developers will give a
slightly colder tone because they use Benzotriazole as an anti-foggant
rather than bromide. You can also use Benzotriazole in a Metol/HQ
developer like D-72 or Ansco 120 (similar to Dektol) and get a colder
tone than you will if you use the bromide. The coldness or warmth of
the tone, however, is not the same question about the depth of the
blacks (D-Max). They're related, but not the same. Generally, warmtone
papers (chlorobromide as opposed to bromide) will give deeper, richer
blacks, though not cold-toned blacks. Using a warmtone paper like
Ilford MG Warmtone with a colder-toned developer gives interesting
results. The blacks are rich, but cooler in tone.

ATIPPETT wrote:

Recently I was told that i would get richer blacks if I used a Phenidon-Base
developer when printing on Ilford MG. I use Polymax developer with list
phenol-sulfate. Is Polymax T paper develop Phenidon-Based? And does it really
give me the riches blacks? What about Dextol with respect to cold rich blacks?

Alan Tippett

Richard Koppow is correct. Phenidone-based developers will give a
slightly colder tone because they use Benzotriazole as an anti-foggant
rather than bromide. You can also use Benzotriazole in a Metol/HQ
developer like D-72 or Ansco 120 (similar to Dektol) and get a colder
tone than you will if you use the bromide. The coldness or warmth of
the tone, however, is not the same question about the depth of the
blacks (D-Max). They're related, but not the same. Generally, warmtone
papers (chlorobromide as opposed to bromide) will give deeper, richer
blacks, though not cold-toned blacks. Using a warmtone paper like
Ilford MG Warmtone with a colder-toned developer gives interesting
results. The blacks are rich, but cooler in tone.

ATIPPETT wrote:

Recently I was told that i would get richer blacks if I used a Phenidon-Base
developer when printing on Ilford MG. I use Polymax developer with list
phenol-sulfate. Is Polymax T paper develop Phenidon-Based? And does it really
give me the riches blacks? What about Dextol with respect to cold rich blacks?

Alan Tippett

"Uranium Committee" wrote in
message
om...
ojunk (ATIPPETT) wrote in message
...
Recently I was told that i would get richer blacks if I
used a Phenidon-Base
developer when printing on Ilford MG. I use Polymax
developer with list
phenol-sulfate. Is Polymax T paper develop
Phenidon-Based? And does it really
give me the riches blacks? What about Dextol with
respect to cold rich blacks?

Alan Tippett

Phenidone and Amidol are both highly resistant to
supresion by bromide
release. This means that in very dark areas, they will
continue to
develop when metol and other developing agents cease
working.

Actually, Metol is not very sensitive to bromide either.
Hydroquinone is. The reaction products from Hydroquinone are
powerful developing agents themselves. The effect of local
generation of bromide in development with M-H developers is
slight.
In fact, comparison of M-H with Amidol shows no
difference in Dmax or paper curve.
There can be a difference in image color but a little
Benzotriazole in Dektol will make it as neutral or cold tone
as Bromophen or Amidol.
The key to good blacks is having a good negative.
Exposure for most paper should result in full development in
from one to three minutes. Fast enlarging paper generally is
completed in 1 to 1.5 minutes, slower papers take two to
three minutes. Longer development tends to produce fog.
If you have weak blacks and are exposing correctly the
problem may be the negative or choice of paper contrast.
Almost any paper and developer can produce densities too
great for use in a reflection print. You can prove this by
illuminating the print by _transmitted_ light. Generally
there will be detail visible in shadow areas that look blank
black by reflection.


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Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA