Canon A570IS, 200 shots on eneloop, 10 shots on Alkaline

I lent our A570IS to a relative for a cruise to Alaska. She didn't want
to take the NiMH batteries and charger, so I told her to bring plenty of
disposable AA Alkaline batteries, which she didn't, so she was buying AA
batteries on the ship (I cringe to think of the price that Princess must
charge for AA batteries). She came back today, complaining that the
camera would only take "a few" pictures on a set of AA batteries and
that she stopped using it rather than buying AA batteries on the ship.

I've never used Alkaline AA batteries in this camera, but an older A60
uses four AA alkaline batteries without any problems, giving about 150
shots per set. In the A570IS I always use either NiMH or lithium AA
cells as a back-up (though now that spare lithium AA batteries aren't
allowed in checked luggage, I only keep one emergency set with the
camera) and don't take along a couple of four packs). I wonder if this
is normal with AA alkaline batteries and this camera. Alkaline batteries
have very high internal resistance, and don't last as long in
high-current applications as NiMH, but surely they should be good for
more than 10 shots or so.

SMS wrote:
I lent our A570IS to a relative for a cruise to Alaska. She didn't want
to take the NiMH batteries and charger, so I told her to bring plenty of
disposable AA Alkaline batteries, which she didn't, so she was buying AA
batteries on the ship (I cringe to think of the price that Princess must
charge for AA batteries). She came back today, complaining that the
camera would only take "a few" pictures on a set of AA batteries and
that she stopped using it rather than buying AA batteries on the ship.

I've never used Alkaline AA batteries in this camera, but an older A60
uses four AA alkaline batteries without any problems, giving about 150
shots per set. In the A570IS I always use either NiMH or lithium AA
cells as a back-up (though now that spare lithium AA batteries aren't
allowed in checked luggage, I only keep one emergency set with the
camera) and don't take along a couple of four packs). I wonder if this
is normal with AA alkaline batteries and this camera. Alkaline batteries
have very high internal resistance, and don't last as long in
high-current applications as NiMH, but surely they should be good for
more than 10 shots or so.

I'm not familiar with the model quoted, but it must surely be more
economical on battery drain than my A95. I started to run a test a while
back to see how many shots I could get out of a set of alkalines. I gave
up and removed them at 150 shots to replace them with the then newly
purchased eneloops. I would always recommend the latter over alkalines,
but alkalines should work in a pinch.
Obviously results will vary with flash and display usage.
Dave Cohen

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 06:54:34 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote:

I lent our A570IS to a relative for a cruise to Alaska. She didn't want
to take the NiMH batteries and charger, so I told her to bring plenty of
disposable AA Alkaline batteries, which she didn't, so she was buying AA
batteries on the ship (I cringe to think of the price that Princess must
charge for AA batteries). She came back today, complaining that the
camera would only take "a few" pictures on a set of AA batteries and
that she stopped using it rather than buying AA batteries on the ship.
. . .
I wonder if this
is normal with AA alkaline batteries and this camera. Alkaline batteries
have very high internal resistance, and don't last as long in
high-current applications as NiMH, but surely they should be good for
more than 10 shots or so.

Thats what happens when you lend a camera to someone who makes no
effort to understand the camera fully. With flash? what was the
temperature, with IS on, autofocus, Lcd, alot of reviewing, and
someone who doesnt know how to use a camera, who knows. Someone who
thinks can use settings that dont drain batteries as fast. What brand
and age were the batteries, I recently bought old ones that were not
very good. Alkaline to me dont work well.

Expect only misleading answers from this self professed "battery
expert", whose main purpose in life seems to be to disparage AA
batteries at every opportunity. In normal conditions, Canon says
that the A570 IS is CIPA rated (1/2 shots use flash at full power)
at 120 images using alkaline AA batteries and 400 images using NiMH
batteries. If the viewfinder is used instead of the LCD monitor,
the number of shots goes up to 400 and 900 images, respectively,
when using a pair of alkaline and NiMH cells.

SMS has frequently talked about alkalines doing poorly in cold
weather (which Canon's manual also mentions), so it would be quite
odd if he didn't warn his princess on the Princess about what to
expect in Alaska. Of course his question is disingenuous. I'm sure
that he knows quite well that getting only 10 shots from alkaline
batteries is not normal, except in decidedly abnormal conditions.
It's a shame that he had to resort to making his relative look like
a dunce in order to make his bogus point about AA alkalines. If
cold weather was the contributing factor, the A570 IS's manual
offers a solution - warming the batteries in a pocket before use.

I also wonder about the validity of his claim that spare lithium
AA batteries aren't allowed to be packed in checked luggage. I've
heard about that being a requirement for rechargeable Li-Ion
batteries with baggage checked on airlines. Is this also true on
cruise ships for AA batteries? It should be noted that unlike
larger Li-Ion batteries, lithium AA cells are internally limited to
fairly low currents, so accidental short circuits shouldn't be as
potentially dangerous as shorted NiCad or NiMH cells.

ransley wrote:

You miss understand what I said, I in no way put down AA
rechargeables, all I use is AA, Sanyo Eneloop, or Energiser NiMh.
Depending on location in Alaska it could be 45f for a high around now.
I recently bought new what were outdated Alkaline cells that after one
month wont run a tv remote, but we have no idea how this person used
the camera or how much time they reviewed their shots with the Lcd. I
suspect poor battery performance was from a lack of the persons
understanding many issues on cameras, settings and batteries.

I'm sure the LCD was being used to frame the shot, not the viewfinder,
and that no effort was made to turn off the flash. However the time
spent reviewing the photos on the LCD was minimal. I guess that it's
possible that the batteries sold on the ship were old, but alkalines
have a very long shelf life.

The A60 used four AA batteries, the A570IS uses two, despite having a
larger LCD and other power-consuming features.

When I get the camera back I'm going to try it with alkalines, something
I never tried (I use lithium AAs as a backup, and they work fine).

I wish some reviews would include battery life for NiMH, Lithium, and
alkaline AAs. Now the typical review says something like "The alkalines
that come in the box will quickly find their way into the trash."

I don't mind AA rechargeables now that low-discharge NiMH batteries are
so widely available and so cheap, but I didn't expect alkalines to be as
bad as they are.

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:25:29 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote:

You miss understand what I said, I in no way put down AA
rechargeables, all I use is AA, Sanyo Eneloop, or Energiser NiMh.
Depending on location in Alaska it could be 45f for a high around now.
I recently bought new what were outdated Alkaline cells that after one
month wont run a tv remote, but we have no idea how this person used
the camera or how much time they reviewed their shots with the Lcd. I
suspect poor battery performance was from a lack of the persons
understanding many issues on cameras, settings and batteries.

No, you misunderstood what I wrote. It was critical of SMS's
post, not *your* reply. If you re-read what I wrote, I think you'll
see that I agreed with what you wrote. My point was that by trying
to reason with SMS you were wasting your time, since he is quite
aware of the points that you made, and HE, not YOU is the one that
looks for opportunities to disparage AA batteries.

Since lithium AA batteries not only offer provide much better life
than other AA types but also offer far better performance in cold
weather (better even than Li-Ion batteries), he could have slipped a
pair in the A570 IS. If he also preset the camera so the flash
wouldn't automatically go off when taking pictures in bright
daylight, the camera might have been able to take 600 or more shots
with those batteries. Putting another 4 lithium AA cells in a
small, inexpensive flashlight (torch) instead of packing loose
spares in checked baggage could have allowed his photo-noob female
relative to take up to a couple of thousand shots, without having to
bring along a charger or buy extra alkalines at inflated "Princess"
prices. I'll repeat, SMS knew much more than he let on in his
disingenuous post. It's just another of his typical trolls and for
all we know, could have been completely fabricated.

In article ,
SMS wrote:

I wish some reviews would include battery life for NiMH, Lithium, and
alkaline AAs. Now the typical review says something like "The alkalines
that come in the box will quickly find their way into the trash."

http://www.powerstream.com/AA-tests.htm is the only such test I've run
across so far.

I don't mind AA rechargeables now that low-discharge NiMH batteries are
so widely available and so cheap, but I didn't expect alkalines to be as
bad as they are.

They really aren't well-suited for high-current applications. The
discharge tests show that at an average current-consumption rate of 1
ampere, a typical AA alkaline cell seems to lose roughly 1/2 of its
rated capacity. At even higher current levels (e.g. average 2 amps)
the loss is even higher.

Good NiMH cells, on the other hand, lose relatively little of their
rated capacity even at a high (e.g. 1C) discharge rate.

I'd only use alkaline AAs in a digital camera as a last resort, under
"Oh futz, I'm entirely out of anything better" conditions. I've
settled on a combination of low-discharge NiMH for regular "keep the
camera handy around the house" use, and AA lithium disposables for
"overseas travel, weight is important and we don't want to bring along
a charger and wall-plug adapters" use.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

ransley wrote:
On Jul 7, 5:15 am, SMS wrote:
I lent our A570IS to a relative for a cruise to Alaska. She didn't want
to take the NiMH batteries and charger, so I told her to bring plenty of
disposable AA Alkaline batteries, which she didn't, so she was buying AA
batteries on the ship (I cringe to think of the price that Princess must
charge for AA batteries). She came back today, complaining that the
camera would only take "a few" pictures on a set of AA batteries and
that she stopped using it rather than buying AA batteries on the ship.

I've never used Alkaline AA batteries in this camera, but an older A60
uses four AA alkaline batteries without any problems, giving about 150
shots per set. In the A570IS I always use either NiMH or lithium AA
cells as a back-up (though now that spare lithium AA batteries aren't
allowed in checked luggage, I only keep one emergency set with the
camera) and don't take along a couple of four packs). I wonder if this
is normal with AA alkaline batteries and this camera. Alkaline batteries
have very high internal resistance, and don't last as long in
high-current applications as NiMH, but surely they should be good for
more than 10 shots or so.

Thats what happens when you lend a camera to someone who makes no
effort to understand the camera fully. With flash? what was the
temperature, with IS on, autofocus, Lcd, alot of reviewing, and
someone who doesnt know how to use a camera, who knows. Someone who
thinks can use settings that dont drain batteries as fast. What brand
and age were the batteries, I recently bought old ones that were not
very good. Alkaline to me dont work well.

When I bought my first digital p&s camera (Olympus 3030) a few years
back, I didn't have rechargeables with me and wanted to try it out.
I put in 4 alkalines (fresh) and started taking pictures while my wife
continued shopping. Fifteen (15) shots and they were dead. Different
cameras seem to have different drain characteristics. A Nikon Coolpix
that uses 2 AA batteries delivers about 1/2 the shots of rechargables
when powered via alkaline.

Clair

Clair Johnston wrote:

When I bought my first digital p&s camera (Olympus 3030) a few years
back, I didn't have rechargeables with me and wanted to try it out.
I put in 4 alkalines (fresh) and started taking pictures while my wife
continued shopping. Fifteen (15) shots and they were dead. Different
cameras seem to have different drain characteristics. A Nikon Coolpix
that uses 2 AA batteries delivers about 1/2 the shots of rechargables
when powered via alkaline.

Yes, I think that the A570 IS probably has the typical digital camera
profile of demanding high current for brief periods of time, something
that alkalines are particularly bad at providing. Canon shouldn't even
provide alkalines in the box, they should just tell the user to use NiMH
or Lithium AAs.

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:25:28 -0700, SMS wrote:

I wish some reviews would include battery life for NiMH, Lithium, and
alkaline AAs. Now the typical review says something like "The alkalines
that come in the box will quickly find their way into the trash."

I don't mind AA rechargeables now that low-discharge NiMH batteries are
so widely available and so cheap, but I didn't expect alkalines to be as
bad as they are.

They aren't. There have been many cameras, including several
other Canon Powershots, that for several years have been able to
take from many hundreds to over a thousand shots per set of AA
batteries. As the camera was yours, all you needed to do was look
in your A570 IS's manual to see what kind of battery life alkaline
AA cells provide. As a self-professed battery expert that even has
a website dedicated to praising Li-Ion batteries and finding fault
wherever possible with AA batteries, your professed ignorance of
your own camera's battery performance doesn't ring true. A
reputable researcher, upon discovering such unbelievable results,
would do a quick test to verify them, before brazenly announcing to
the world in his message's subject line :

Canon A570IS, 200 shots on eneloop, 10 shots on Alkaline

but for you, this is nothing new. According to Canon's tests, it
would be more like 400 shots on their 2,500mAh NiMH cells, 120 shots
using alkalines, and 320 shots using Eneloops, taking into account
their smaller (2,000mAh) capacity. It's interesting that your
figures represent a mixture of your experience using Eneloops, and
your female relative's anecdotal account of only getting 10 shots
from alkalines. You obviously shoot the same way that your relative
does, where "no effort was made to turn off the flash".

I'm pleased to know that you can't claim that your filters
prevented you from seeing my reply, since it was quoted in its
entirety in ransley's post, which you did read. Don't disappear,
hear? The more frequently you return, the more people will see
reasons why you can't and shouldn't be trusted.

SMS wrote:
ransley wrote:

You miss understand what I said, I in no way put down AA
rechargeables, all I use is AA, Sanyo Eneloop, or Energiser NiMh.
Depending on location in Alaska it could be 45f for a high around now.
I recently bought new what were outdated Alkaline cells that after one
month wont run a tv remote, but we have no idea how this person used
the camera or how much time they reviewed their shots with the Lcd. I
suspect poor battery performance was from a lack of the persons
understanding many issues on cameras, settings and batteries.

I'm sure the LCD was being used to frame the shot, not the viewfinder,
and that no effort was made to turn off the flash. However the time
spent reviewing the photos on the LCD was minimal. I guess that it's
possible that the batteries sold on the ship were old, but alkalines
have a very long shelf life.

The A60 used four AA batteries, the A570IS uses two, despite having a
larger LCD and other power-consuming features.

When I get the camera back I'm going to try it with alkalines, something
I never tried (I use lithium AAs as a backup, and they work fine).

I wish some reviews would include battery life for NiMH, Lithium, and
alkaline AAs. Now the typical review says something like "The alkalines
that come in the box will quickly find their way into the trash."

I don't mind AA rechargeables now that low-discharge NiMH batteries are
so widely available and so cheap, but I didn't expect alkalines to be as
bad as they are.

In my Canon Powershot AA-using A300 I only get about a dozen shots on
a cold day. But after putting the batteries in a warm pocket for five
minutes I'll get several more. And so on. If I'm shooting in the cold
I'll usually keep rotating three sets through the camera and a warm
pocket to keep the thing going.

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]