[SI] Even more comments!

So I spend a couple of hours, I think, typing these all up,
spellcheck them, look 'em over again, then log onto the group and find
Matt's ahead of me by only minutes ;-)

There's no race, of course, but the 'attack' of commentary posts is
unintentional.

Anyway, as always, these are only my views, but of course that
doesn't make them wrong ;-). Thanks to everyone for contributing, one of
these days I'll hold a party for you all at my place.

The images in question are at http://www.pbase.com/shootin/hidden


Bret Douglas - While the apparent subject of the hole marker jumps out at
the viewer, the 'hidden' subject becomes readily apparent, partially
because of the framing, partially because it's really the only black thing
in the image. Assisted, of course, by that nice contrasty white spot.
Subtly, the leaning of the sign and the pointing fingers of the, uh, cacti
(?) also serve to direct attention to the cat's little hidey-hole. So it
works, but doesn't produce a surprise as well as it could have. The colors
of this shot seem odd, somehow. I suspect overcast or deep haze lighting,
but something else contributes to it. F**king prompt (as Bret would put it)
being the first one in, but that means he's the first to get smacked for an
archive shot...

Jim Kramer - Nicely framed, and I like the angle of the butterfly assisted
by the grasses, and with some balance from the fly. Vivid, and sharp where
it needs to be - exposure on the butterfly is also excellent. But the poop
is just a hair too subtle - I know that was the idea, but it doesn't seem
to say, "Poop," like I think it should. The nice thing about it, though, is
that the flies indicate it, if the viewer is thinking, and knowing that
it's intended for this mandate should be enough. Suffers just a wee bit
from compression artifacts, probably hard to avoid at this size.

Brian Fane - A nice piece of social commentary, instead of trying to show
something in the photo itself that's hidden. Brian took the time to go for
some good framing, having the road and the wires leading down to that
crucial "T" sign, and even got the crossroad itself. And over it all, the
huge Stop sign, framed in a way to say that it should be impossible to
miss. Good job! Looks slightly dark to me though, giving a stormier
impression than the day seems to warrant, and maybe this was a good
candidate for some filters to bring out sky contrast. I also can't help
wondering how much more "impact" it would have had if the T-sign had been
leaning crazily ;-) But overall quite well done.

Al Denelsbeck - How come this has the lowest hit count?!?! My buddy the
Green Anole here never appears to spend too much time on the plants he
matches best, but happily posed when I was out looking specifically for
shots of this type. And since he appears only occasionally, I was happy to
use him. I paused long enough for him to bring his head inside the leaf
outline, which helped, but ultimately I think his black spot, as well as
the dead leaves underneath him, helped make him too obvious. On a much
lower key, he's an inverted shape from the leaves he's on, reversing the
highlight pattern. Ah well.

Bowser - I was missing the implication of this until Bowser explained it,
which irks me slightly. I spent a lot of time looking for something else -
footprints? Something in the water? Do the channels make letters? (This
isn't a joke; it was something I actually considered). But alas, just tidal
flats, normally invisible beneath the water. Thankfully Bowse kept things
off-center a bit, avoiding what might have been too-direct geometry, but
the lines direct attention without a purpose, and the 'spongy' textures are
a little too distant to carry the image themselves. I'm put in mind of
farming furrows, flooded unexpectedly. Bowser already told me he knew it
wasn't strong, so I'm only agreeing with him ;-). Seem a little purplish to
anyone else?

Ken Nadvornick - This one's interesting. The subject isn't really hidden,
isn't even subtle, so I can't give many points for that at all. But in
other regards, it has some interesting implications. He's the only person
whatsoever in the image, seemingly for miles, and he's in a position to
pointedly ignore the rest of the city - back turned, arms closed tightly,
hiding in a hollow. I know this is a lot to read into it, but the body
english almost gives a story of its own - where did everyone else go, and
did he escape the same fate by 'hiding' this way? I've read Ken's
explanations as to framing and focal length, and largely agree - the lines
and distances are pretty good for this. But I think I would have favored
cramming the subject even tighter into a corner, perhaps assisting the
self-protective position he has.

Matt Clara - I know Matt was really trying to sneak one over on us, and the
true subject is the mink in the background ;-). But in all seriousness, I
have to go against the crowd with this one, I think. It could be stronger,
on both the mandate and the quality. The contrast and shape of the subject,
prominently against a smooth pattern, make it stand out boldly no matter
how you look at it. From an apparent size issue, it may have been much
subtler. Or maybe I'm biased because I look for this kind of stuff all the
time ;-). The angle and the framing are pretty good, and the DOF isolates
it well, with that admitted problem with the focus. But not really hidden.
Matt, I have on occasion propped my camera on my left hand or fist for
ground level shots, or sought out rocks.

Eric Quesnel-Williams - What's interesting about this is, Eric framed this
to bring attention right smack to the ruins, and it *still* almost creeps
by. Without that window, it might have effectively gone unnoticed. The
image has three layers, each with different tones to them, which is a nice
bonus, and the dip in the foreground plants and background trees complement
perfectly, nicely done! The very deep shadow gives an even spookier feel to
the ruins, and their position on the hill is a bit forbidding. Neat
subject, well executed. It would have taken little effort to make it
subtler, but for this kind of subject, I think the idea of the 'find' works
well.

Steve McCartney - Welcome aboard! This is a relatively simple composition,
and it relies on the angle Steve chose to bring it together, so it works
fairly well in this context. Nice work with the matching lines of sign and,
uh, lines, as well as using the open space to frame the signs. I keep
wanting to see a humorous hook, for some reason (much like Jim said), but
still, it fits into the mandate and is pretty well executed. The creative
part of me wonders if a nighttime shot, perhaps with the help of some
strobes, would work too.

R. Schenck - Another new one this week, welcome. Get yourself a drink. I
find myself slightly at a loss with this one, primarily because it's so
bold in the frame - I know the story behind it now, but the approach
doesn't seem to have captured the hidden/ignored aspect of it in any way.
The building behind it sets the locale, more or less, and prevents it from
being so abstract it was confusing - it seems clear this is a sculpture,
though scale is up for grabs. Needs a different approach, I think, to bring
the idea home.

Mike Henley - Here's the interesting thing: While I've read the extensive
caption info, I get a bit of a different feel from this. The subjects are
overwhelmingly prominent in the frame, standing well apart from the crowd
in distance and size and of course, dead center. So I can't feel the
'hidden' aspect works at all. The attention directly to the photographer is
good, and sparks that sudden realization idea, but this is masked a little
by his companion, who takes no notice, and the tinted glasses which makes
it slightly unsure that the subject does indeed notice the photographer.
But the overall feeling I get is how far apart these people actually stand,
even though they seem unaware of it and frankly, no one else notices. I
think this one could have been approached differently, but it just doesn't
seem to fit.

Vic Mason - Rats and double rats. Missed the idea about this entirely until
someone else pointed it out. I was looking all over this image too.
Ignoring the antenna for the time being (sigh), there are some interesting
elements in this pic, most noticeably the prominent telephone poles
blocking us which nevertheless mimic the anorexic palms in the background,
which themselves have a uniformity to them that mimics telephone poles.
It's easy to guess where the road is. The crowd of cars looks like a scene
from the oil embargo days, even though they're not really lined up at the
pumps. Just a curious shot overall. The pic seems a little scattered, but I
have to give Vic full credit for completely leaving me behind. Scum. ;-)

Brian Baird - I didn't offer commentary last mandate where you first
appeared, so I'll welcome you now. But opening with two archives, tsk! A
double slap! Anyway, this was an approach much like Matt's, of looking to
see the interest or patterns in the smaller world we often pass by, and
this one was done reasonably well. While not showing any surprises like
many of the other shots, this one has a faintly Escher-like quality to the
way the leaves intertwine, enhanced by the monochrome. The short depth-of-
field keeps things from getting too muddied, and the contrast of the water
droplets helps a lot. It's a little hard to know where to look, but that
one 'spear' slightly left of center draws my attention. Nicely artistic
shot, and while I know that the colors were changing, I still wonder what
it would look like in the solid greens or reds of either phase.

That would appear to be it. We hope you enjoy your stay, and thank
you for flying with us!


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net

From: Al Denelsbeck

Bret Douglas - While the apparent subject of the hole marker jumps out at
the viewer, the 'hidden' subject becomes readily apparent, partially
because of the framing, partially because it's really the only black thing
in the image. Assisted, of course, by that nice contrasty white spot.
Subtly, the leaning of the sign and the pointing fingers of the, uh, cacti
(?) also serve to direct attention to the cat's little hidey-hole. So it
works, but doesn't produce a surprise as well as it could have. The colors
of this shot seem odd, somehow. I suspect overcast or deep haze lighting,
but something else contributes to it. F**king prompt (as Bret would put it)
being the first one in, but that means he's the first to get smacked for an
archive shot...

Thanks for your comments.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the reason I took the pic in the first
place.
I found something particularly ironic when I saw this little black cat hiding
under the tee sign on Lanai.
Not that black cats are rare in Hawaii, I'm sure there are plenty of them. But
what struck me was why this one chose the 13th hole.

Not being superstitious, I parred the sumbitch.

"Annika1980" wrote in message
...
From: Al Denelsbeck

Bret Douglas - While the apparent subject of the hole marker jumps out at
the viewer, the 'hidden' subject becomes readily apparent, partially
because of the framing, partially because it's really the only black
thing
in the image. Assisted, of course, by that nice contrasty white spot.
Subtly, the leaning of the sign and the pointing fingers of the, uh,
cacti
(?) also serve to direct attention to the cat's little hidey-hole. So it
works, but doesn't produce a surprise as well as it could have. The
colors
of this shot seem odd, somehow. I suspect overcast or deep haze lighting,
but something else contributes to it. F**king prompt (as Bret would put
it)
being the first one in, but that means he's the first to get smacked for
an
archive shot...

Thanks for your comments.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the reason I took the pic in the first
place.
I found something particularly ironic when I saw this little black cat
hiding
under the tee sign on Lanai.
Not that black cats are rare in Hawaii, I'm sure there are plenty of them.
But
what struck me was why this one chose the 13th hole.

Not being superstitious, I parred the sumbitch.


What, you didn't like my comments?

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message
. 8...

So I spend a couple of hours, I think, typing these all up,
spellcheck them, look 'em over again, then log onto the group and find
Matt's ahead of me by only minutes ;-)

There's no race, of course, but the 'attack' of commentary posts is
unintentional.

Anyway, as always, these are only my views, but of course that
doesn't make them wrong ;-). Thanks to everyone for contributing, one of
these days I'll hold a party for you all at my place.

The images in question are at http://www.pbase.com/shootin/hidden


Matt Clara - I know Matt was really trying to sneak one over on us, and
the
true subject is the mink in the background ;-). But in all seriousness, I
have to go against the crowd with this one, I think. It could be stronger,
on both the mandate and the quality. The contrast and shape of the
subject,
prominently against a smooth pattern, make it stand out boldly no matter
how you look at it. From an apparent size issue, it may have been much
subtler. Or maybe I'm biased because I look for this kind of stuff all the
time ;-). The angle and the framing are pretty good, and the DOF isolates
it well, with that admitted problem with the focus. But not really hidden.
Matt, I have on occasion propped my camera on my left hand or fist for
ground level shots, or sought out rocks.


Thanks for your comments, Al! Just for the record, and perhaps I should
have been clearer earlier, the downspout I used in my example wasn't hidden,
either.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

In article ,
says...
But opening with two archives, tsk! A double slap!

I know! I know!

My first submission was done within the mandate time frame, but I
considered it a archive shot because I didn't shoot it for the mandate.

This last mandate had me all bugaboo. I promise a new shot for the next
one - and not just because I don't have any qualifying shots in my
archive!

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated.

In article , annika1980
@aol.com says...
Not that black cats are rare in Hawaii, I'm sure there are plenty of them. But
what struck me was why this one chose the 13th hole.

I never put those two together, not being particularly superstitious
myself.

Not being superstitious, I parred the sumbitch.

Take that, fate!

In article , annika1980
@aol.com says...
Not that black cats are rare in Hawaii, I'm sure there are plenty of them. But
what struck me was why this one chose the 13th hole.

I never put those two together, not being particularly superstitious
myself.

Not being superstitious, I parred the sumbitch.

Take that, fate!

In article ,
says...
Hell, most of mine aren't shot for the mandate, just shot within the period
of the mandate...

Well, I'll keep that in mind next time!

(Annika1980) wrote in
:

From: Al Denelsbeck

Bret Douglas - While the apparent subject of the hole marker jumps out
at the viewer, the 'hidden' subject becomes readily apparent,
partially because of the framing, partially because it's really the
only black thing in the image. Assisted, of course, by that nice
contrasty white spot. Subtly, the leaning of the sign and the pointing
fingers of the, uh, cacti (?) also serve to direct attention to the
cat's little hidey-hole. So it works, but doesn't produce a surprise
as well as it could have. The colors of this shot seem odd, somehow. I
suspect overcast or deep haze lighting, but something else contributes
to it. F**king prompt (as Bret would put it) being the first one in,
but that means he's the first to get smacked for an archive shot...

Thanks for your comments.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the reason I took the pic in the
first place.
I found something particularly ironic when I saw this little black cat
hiding under the tee sign on Lanai.
Not that black cats are rare in Hawaii, I'm sure there are plenty of
them. But what struck me was why this one chose the 13th hole.

You know, I caught the 13 bit and pondered a comment, but felt it was
unrelated to anything, totally and completely missing the connection with a
black cat. I hate when I do that. Nice hook (or is it slice?) to the image
now, I herewith increase my appreciation of it.


Not being superstitious, I parred the sumbitch.

Ah, but from which tee? ;-)

Not being a golfer (and finding it boring if there's no windmill), I
looked at that sign for a bit and hoped that the large blue patches did not
actually indicate a sadistic water hazard...



- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net

"Matt Clara" wrote in
:

"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message
. 8...

Matt Clara - I know Matt was really trying to sneak one over on us,
and
the
true subject is the mink in the background ;-). But in all
seriousness, I have to go against the crowd with this one, I think.
It could be stronger, on both the mandate and the quality. The
contrast and shape of the
subject,
prominently against a smooth pattern, make it stand out boldly no
matter how you look at it. From an apparent size issue, it may have
been much subtler. Or maybe I'm biased because I look for this kind
of stuff all the time ;-). The angle and the framing are pretty good,
and the DOF isolates it well, with that admitted problem with the
focus. But not really hidden. Matt, I have on occasion propped my
camera on my left hand or fist for ground level shots, or sought out
rocks.


Thanks for your comments, Al! Just for the record, and perhaps I
should have been clearer earlier, the downspout I used in my example
wasn't hidden, either.

I think we just look at it differently, due to preferred subject
matter - I see mushrooms all the time, and they stand out very vividly to
me. But I often don't recognize faces ;-)

I admit that I approached the mandate more from a standpoint of
'camouflage', both in my own approach and in my commentary. I think I tend
to favor finding the isolated patterns or 'interests' when I'm out chasing
photos, and it's kind of a requirement when after many forms of wildlife
anyway, so I believe what you're describing is more my typical habit in
most cases.


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net