Cheapest E6 redux

Well, bite my tongue...

....in an earlier post I cited Gamma Photo Labs price of $2.30 to process an E6
sheet of 4X5.
Just stopped by there today to drop off one (1) 120 roll of E6 that was a test
for a job and was informed that there is now a $10 minimum on all orders.
Thus, if you don't have more than five sheets of 4X5 E6, think of an
alternative...
....not that it's worth putting my own personal E6 line together in my basement
to get around a $10 minimum.
I think that it's just a sign of the times that even commercial labs in major
cities are feeling the pinch of digital.

best

argon

Argon3 wrote:
Well, bite my tongue...

...in an earlier post I cited Gamma Photo Labs price of $2.30 to process an E6
sheet of 4X5.
Just stopped by there today to drop off one (1) 120 roll of E6 that was a test
for a job and was informed that there is now a $10 minimum on all orders.
Thus, if you don't have more than five sheets of 4X5 E6, think of an
alternative...
...not that it's worth putting my own personal E6 line together in my basement
to get around a $10 minimum.
I think that it's just a sign of the times that even commercial labs in major
cities are feeling the pinch of digital.

Really?

The last place I worked, increasing the minimum was done because we had
too much work; the strategy (which didn't work, because they had no
place else to go) was to drive the single customers to other shops and
concentrate on the more profitable (business-wide) larger customers.

If they were "feeling the pinch of digital" wouldn't it make more sense
to shave margins in pursuit of volume, than to drive small customers
away (possibly to their own darkrooms, never to return)?

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Argon3 wrote:
Well, bite my tongue...

...in an earlier post I cited Gamma Photo Labs price of $2.30 to process an E6
sheet of 4X5.
Just stopped by there today to drop off one (1) 120 roll of E6 that was a test
for a job and was informed that there is now a $10 minimum on all orders.
Thus, if you don't have more than five sheets of 4X5 E6, think of an
alternative...
...not that it's worth putting my own personal E6 line together in my basement
to get around a $10 minimum.
I think that it's just a sign of the times that even commercial labs in major
cities are feeling the pinch of digital.

Really?

The last place I worked, increasing the minimum was done because we had
too much work; the strategy (which didn't work, because they had no
place else to go) was to drive the single customers to other shops and
concentrate on the more profitable (business-wide) larger customers.

If they were "feeling the pinch of digital" wouldn't it make more sense
to shave margins in pursuit of volume, than to drive small customers
away (possibly to their own darkrooms, never to return)?

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Argon3 wrote:
: Well, bite my tongue...

: ...in an earlier post I cited Gamma Photo Labs price of $2.30 to process an E6
: sheet of 4X5.
: Just stopped by there today to drop off one (1) 120 roll of E6 that was a test
: for a job and was informed that there is now a $10 minimum on all orders.
: Thus, if you don't have more than five sheets of 4X5 E6, think of an
: alternative...
: ...not that it's worth putting my own personal E6 line together in my basement
: to get around a $10 minimum.
: I think that it's just a sign of the times that even commercial labs in major
: cities are feeling the pinch of digital.

You may want to take a look at Perfect Image in DesPlaines. The last time I was
there they were charging $2 a sheet. For E6 they have one hour turn around.
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

Frank Pittel wrote:

Argon3 wrote:
: Well, bite my tongue...

: ...in an earlier post I cited Gamma Photo Labs price of $2.30 to process an E6
: sheet of 4X5.
: Just stopped by there today to drop off one (1) 120 roll of E6 that was a test
: for a job and was informed that there is now a $10 minimum on all orders.
: Thus, if you don't have more than five sheets of 4X5 E6, think of an
: alternative...
: ...not that it's worth putting my own personal E6 line together in my basement
: to get around a $10 minimum.
: I think that it's just a sign of the times that even commercial labs in major
: cities are feeling the pinch of digital.

You may want to take a look at Perfect Image in DesPlaines. The last time I was
there they were charging $2 a sheet. For E6 they have one hour turn around.


Reed Photo Imaging. Bob Reed does E6 for some of the most
well known chrome photographers in the west. His process is
always in control.

http://www.reedphoto.com/

Really?

The last place I worked, increasing the minimum was done because we had
too much work; the strategy (which didn't work, because they had no
place else to go) was to drive the single customers to other shops and
concentrate on the more profitable (business-wide) larger customers.

If they were "feeling the pinch of digital" wouldn't it make more sense
to shave margins in pursuit of volume, than to drive small customers
away (possibly to their own darkrooms, never to return)?
BRBR

How long ago did you work at that place and was it a photo lab...or any other
business that's been affected by computerization or digital photography?

I knew a guy who had a very successful typesetting business before desktop
publishing and Adobe put him out of business. Big difference between a
business that feels that it has to beat customers off with a stick and one
where the entire investment becomes virtually worthless in a very short time
period.

It has always been my impression that places like Gamma run on commercial
business...LARGE accounts, not the guys who drop off a couple of rolls every
month. I can easily see how those larger accounts could shift over to digital
for any one of a number of reasons...saving money, quicker turnover, clients
who insist on the cutting edge because they like to say that they're working
with cutting edge technology...

I will also note that Gamma has moved from its prominent first floor location
to the fourth floor of the building...the first floor has been taken over by a
chi-chi restaurant with valet parking. It's my impression that they've
"downsized" somewhat. If that's what the business demands, then that's it...at
least they're still there.

I don't know what the exact statistics are concerning how much commercial work
is being done digitally as opposed to traditionally...obviously Kodak is
putting most, if not all, of its eggs in the digital basket, so I guess that it
may now constitute the majority of commercial work. This is the "paradigm
shift" that occurs every so often and that's the way that things evolve. I
would love to know what the numbers are just for my own academic curiousity.

I guess that I'm just hoping that a resource that has always been dependable
for me isn't being slowly put out of business. They're probably very good at
trimming their margins and running a tight ship but there does have to be a
limit to what expenses can be trimmed. Usually I run more film than one roll,
so the minimum is something that I doubt that I'll have to worry about but I
thought that I'd mention it in the spirit of full disclosure.

best

argon

You may want to take a look at Perfect Image in DesPlaines. The last time I
was
there they were charging $2 a sheet. For E6 they have one hour turn around.
-- BRBR

I appreciate that, but Des Plaines is a lot farther out of my way than Chicago
Near North. I guess everyone has their local lab...mine just happens to be
Gamma.

best

argon

You may want to take a look at Perfect Image in DesPlaines. The last time I
was
there they were charging $2 a sheet. For E6 they have one hour turn around.
-- BRBR

I appreciate that, but Des Plaines is a lot farther out of my way than Chicago
Near North. I guess everyone has their local lab...mine just happens to be
Gamma.

best

argon

Argon3 wrote:
Really?

The last place I worked, increasing the minimum was done because we had
too much work; the strategy (which didn't work, because they had no
place else to go) was to drive the single customers to other shops and
concentrate on the more profitable (business-wide) larger customers.

If they were "feeling the pinch of digital" wouldn't it make more sense
to shave margins in pursuit of volume, than to drive small customers
away (possibly to their own darkrooms, never to return)?
BRBR

How long ago did you work at that place and was it a photo lab...or any other
business that's been affected by computerization or digital photography?

I left that job just a few weeks ago; the rate/minimum increase I'm
talking about was six months ago. And no, it wasn't a business in
danger of being destroyed by digital, but that seems irrelevant; raising
prices is something you do when demand exceeds supply.

The only way it makes sense for a business that's being forced to
downsize is that it might allow them to deeply trim staff -- where I
worked, it was an alternative to hiring a second person for my job. For
E-6, where virtually all the labor (in a commercial setting) is in
loading the film and cutting/mounting the slides for 35 mm or
cutting/sleeving the strips in medium format, one person should be able
to handle all the traffic for at least one processor, perhaps two (I'm
not up on how long commercial E-6 takes to process, but once the first
rolls start coming out of the machine, it's a matter of how long to feed
in a roll, not how long the roll will be inside the machinery). It's
hard to picture how a business like that will trim staff from a
reasonably lean starting state. If they started a bunch of
non-productive employees, then they shouldn't need to raise prices and
"fire customers" (to use my old boss's term) in order to trim staff and
increase productivity.

It has always been my impression that places like Gamma run on commercial
business...LARGE accounts, not the guys who drop off a couple of rolls every
month. I can easily see how those larger accounts could shift over to digital
for any one of a number of reasons...saving money, quicker turnover, clients
who insist on the cutting edge because they like to say that they're working
with cutting edge technology...

I will also note that Gamma has moved from its prominent first floor location
to the fourth floor of the building...the first floor has been taken over by a
chi-chi restaurant with valet parking. It's my impression that they've
"downsized" somewhat. If that's what the business demands, then that's it...at
least they're still there.

Okay, but if they're losing their high end business, how much sense does
it make to stop handling the small jobs? That would be like Boeing
losing all its military contracts and having United, Delta, and TWA
shift to Airbus, and then raising their minimum order to 3 jets to get
rid of the feeders and charter lines -- it makes no sense to throw the
heels of the loaf down the disposer just because you've run out of
center slices.

I guess that I'm just hoping that a resource that has always been dependable
for me isn't being slowly put out of business. They're probably very good at
trimming their margins and running a tight ship but there does have to be a
limit to what expenses can be trimmed. Usually I run more film than one roll,
so the minimum is something that I doubt that I'll have to worry about but I
thought that I'd mention it in the spirit of full disclosure.

I guess you could ask them -- "Say, I see you've changed your price
structure. Is it a case of the paperwork costing too much relative to
the profits on small orders, or are you just too busy to handle the
small stuff? And if it's paperwork costs, can we figure out a way I can
help reduce your cost on small orders so I don't have to shoot two rolls
in order to get one processed?"

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Argon3 wrote:
Really?

The last place I worked, increasing the minimum was done because we had
too much work; the strategy (which didn't work, because they had no
place else to go) was to drive the single customers to other shops and
concentrate on the more profitable (business-wide) larger customers.

If they were "feeling the pinch of digital" wouldn't it make more sense
to shave margins in pursuit of volume, than to drive small customers
away (possibly to their own darkrooms, never to return)?
BRBR

How long ago did you work at that place and was it a photo lab...or any other
business that's been affected by computerization or digital photography?

I left that job just a few weeks ago; the rate/minimum increase I'm
talking about was six months ago. And no, it wasn't a business in
danger of being destroyed by digital, but that seems irrelevant; raising
prices is something you do when demand exceeds supply.

The only way it makes sense for a business that's being forced to
downsize is that it might allow them to deeply trim staff -- where I
worked, it was an alternative to hiring a second person for my job. For
E-6, where virtually all the labor (in a commercial setting) is in
loading the film and cutting/mounting the slides for 35 mm or
cutting/sleeving the strips in medium format, one person should be able
to handle all the traffic for at least one processor, perhaps two (I'm
not up on how long commercial E-6 takes to process, but once the first
rolls start coming out of the machine, it's a matter of how long to feed
in a roll, not how long the roll will be inside the machinery). It's
hard to picture how a business like that will trim staff from a
reasonably lean starting state. If they started a bunch of
non-productive employees, then they shouldn't need to raise prices and
"fire customers" (to use my old boss's term) in order to trim staff and
increase productivity.

It has always been my impression that places like Gamma run on commercial
business...LARGE accounts, not the guys who drop off a couple of rolls every
month. I can easily see how those larger accounts could shift over to digital
for any one of a number of reasons...saving money, quicker turnover, clients
who insist on the cutting edge because they like to say that they're working
with cutting edge technology...

I will also note that Gamma has moved from its prominent first floor location
to the fourth floor of the building...the first floor has been taken over by a
chi-chi restaurant with valet parking. It's my impression that they've
"downsized" somewhat. If that's what the business demands, then that's it...at
least they're still there.

Okay, but if they're losing their high end business, how much sense does
it make to stop handling the small jobs? That would be like Boeing
losing all its military contracts and having United, Delta, and TWA
shift to Airbus, and then raising their minimum order to 3 jets to get
rid of the feeders and charter lines -- it makes no sense to throw the
heels of the loaf down the disposer just because you've run out of
center slices.

I guess that I'm just hoping that a resource that has always been dependable
for me isn't being slowly put out of business. They're probably very good at
trimming their margins and running a tight ship but there does have to be a
limit to what expenses can be trimmed. Usually I run more film than one roll,
so the minimum is something that I doubt that I'll have to worry about but I
thought that I'd mention it in the spirit of full disclosure.

I guess you could ask them -- "Say, I see you've changed your price
structure. Is it a case of the paperwork costing too much relative to
the profits on small orders, or are you just too busy to handle the
small stuff? And if it's paperwork costs, can we figure out a way I can
help reduce your cost on small orders so I don't have to shoot two rolls
in order to get one processed?"

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.