booting computers

Whisky-dave wrote:
On May 2, 9:54Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
Whisky-dave wrote:

On May 2, 1:25Â*am, Wolfgang Weisselberg
So exactly how much time to you save a day by leaving yuor PC on
24/7 ?

Almost a week at times.

Wow amazing I'm glad my iMac does't take as long to get back to where
it was
from the last time I used it.

Imagine you being away for the week and your Mac not
answering ...

-Wolfgang

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

So exactly how much time to you save a day by leaving yuor PC on
24/7 ?

Almost a week at times.

Wow amazing I'm glad my iMac does't take as long to get back to where
it was from the last time I used it.

Imagine you being away for the week and your Mac not
answering ...

wake on demand, which works over the internet.

Whisky-dave wrote:
On May 2, 10:14Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
Whisky-dave wrote:
On May 1, 2:51Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
Whisky-dave wrote:

That depends on how you work.
Lots of programs and windows open.
So not very efficiently then.

I'm switching between tasks, as needed. Â*Very efficient.

I do the same but I don;t have every aplpication open atr the same
time as there's little point.

Neither do I. Just a lot.

In fact it can be a disratcing if you have more to choose from.

Virtual desktops.


I can set every application to open at startup/login.
Doesn't return the application to the last state at all.
Some do firefox did last night asking if I want to restore to last
session,
I didn't.

Firefox is *one* application out of hundreds I use that don't.

I don;t see the need to use 100 applications, do you use a differtn WP
for each letter you write ?

Apparently threre''s over 200,000 apps for my iPad I doubt I used more
than a dozen.

Apparently you use your computer only in a very few ways.
Fine, but don't think everyone does.


I also tend to save nmy work,m if I need every second accounted for I
can put any document as a startup item and can have any document
applcatioin/game
open at login rather than starup as that's more useful.

Fiddling with the startup is manual, and tends to cost more
time than it saves. Â*Such stuff needs to be fully automatic.

No it doesn't
if the file is open I right-click on it on the icon in the dock and I
can set open at login.

And that opens the file with the right program, at the right
place, with the same undo history and same cursor position?

maybe you need to use 3 or 4 aplications or edit the registary.
I admit I don't know how to do this in windows7

I don't use Windows for anything but some games.

Of course I could do what you suggested adn pay the electricity
company £250 a year
to have my aplpicatiojns readuy for me the second I get home.
But that's of little use in theb real world.

... for you.

for most it seems.

Yeah, a good model for servers.

I don;t know anyone else that leaves tehre computer on all day and
night
because it saves them time opening applications.

You haven't really understood my arguments, have you?

For most any software up[date especailly virus related always needs
the computer to be shutdown
and restarted.

Really? Funny, the only things for which the computer must be
shutdown and rebooted a
- new kernel with new data structures (most bugfixes,
including security fixes, don't change data structures and
thus don't *need* reboots
web.mit.edu/ksplice/doc/ksplice.pdf
)
Actually, the computer doesn't need to be switched off:
"kexec".
- corrupted hardware status (e.g. a graphics card set into a
non-responding status (program bug!) which needs a power reset
to clear), when the hardware cannot be power-cycled and
reattached without power-cycling the CPU & co.
- hardware that needs to be added, removed or replaced but
cannot be disconnected or connected without shutting down
the computer (or where the chance for damage due to
accidental electrical connections or short circuits is
deemed too high with a powered computer).


scripts can be written to do just about everything.
Sure, but I don't want to write and adapt scripts every time I
shut down the computer.
you don;t need to you have startup scripts and shutdown scripts.

But then I don't get the functionality.

Maybe that's because you're using a PC.
I'm prety sure even teh PCs runs things maybe they're still called BAT
files.

I'm not using Windows.


Â*But I use sleep so it's not an issue. with SSD I might turn off
rather than sleep.
Try it. Â*Turn off the computer, turn it back on and see how
long it takes for every program to be back at exactly the
state you left it at.
What would be the point of that ?

It would prove my point. Â*Which is why you won't do it.

You point is that you keep the computer on to save launch times isn't
it.

Nope. That's just one point. Others are it also being a server
(yes, that's bad form) and it also being available for remote
connections.


I'll say again using sleep it takes less than 3 seconds to get back to
where I was.
For me that;s not really significant in one day.
You claim to save a week, by leaving it on.
It would take me over 200,000 wake from sleeps at 3 seconds each
for it to be a week.

Comparing sweet water fish with solar power stations usually
gives strange results.


If I'[m going to write an email do I really need to startup photshop
and open every image on teh computer to save time.

If I really am going to write email, do I really need to
switch on the computer first?

Not if you leave it on I guess, but does that go for the monitor too.

Monitors sleep automatically and wake automatically.


Well my make takes about 15 seconds to open PS it takes me longer to
fill teh kettle
which is pretty much teh first thing I do when I get home from work.
well actuqally I hit teh spacebar which wakes my mac.
Within a few second most things are where they were when I put my mac
to sllep 8 hours earlier.
All I've saved is 8 hours of electricity Â*which in reality is less
than a pint of beer,
and perhaps increased the life span of my HD at least.

Your HD lives better without constant stopping and starting.
It is only designed for a limited number of starts and stops.

Total and utter rubbish you haven;t a clue

http://storageguru.org/archives/2011...liability.html

Reliability

Disk Drive manufactures measure reliability as the Mean Time between
Failure (MBTF) measured in hours. The MBTF for a drive is based on a
testing sample of drives and calculating the frequency of how often
failures occur.

Nothing to do with how many times it's switched on or off.

So why does SMART report things like Spin-Up Time (pre-failure),
Start / Stop Count, Spin-Up Retry Count (pre-failure), Power
Cycle Count, Head Retract Cycle Count and Load / Unload Cycle,
when that's no problem at all?


Also when my computers asleep it's unlikely to get hacked or be used
to spam anyone.

Really.

yes really.

Embedding an axe in the mainboard gives even more protection.


I guess you even think software can be installed when there;s no power
to the computer.

I guess you're drunk or maleficient.


I can walk away from my computer at any time and return at any
time and continue working, no matter what time it is. Â*That's worth
lots to me.
It is to me, but when I go to work I put my computer to sleep.
If I do suddently want to use it I have to take a bus and a tube and
walk, about 1 hours journey
I can connect to my computer from everywhere on the world.
So bus/tube/walk doesn't even apply.
Me too, and using my ipad I can connect to home if I wanted to, but
only if my computer is on.
I can use the wake function for administartor access if I really need
to.
I don;t need my omputer bringing 100s of watts eveyday jusyt incase I
might need it.
Leaving lights burning costs way more than a few watt-hours.
I don;t do that either, I don;t leave my kettle on, I don;t leave my
TV on.
I'm betting you don;t even know what power your computer uses when on,
idle, sleeping
or playing a high end game or other processor intensive app.

I don't really care for computers that are not fed from
batteries.

Which is even stranger you think leaving battery powered compters on
all the time extends their life ?

Let me rephrase that: How much power a computer uses does not
interest me unless it's running on batteries.

I know my mac mini uses an extra 10 watts when burnung a DVD.

Irrelevant.

More relavant for laptops or as you call them battery computers.

You can run lots of non-laptop computers on batteries. You have
heard of uninterruptible power supplies?


With my old tower leaving that on for an hour used similar power to 11
CFL lights
I haven't got 11 lights in the flats !!!

Time to buy a laptop.

Why so I can get less performace per £ or $

Because they use less power!


We're not even talking about automatic backup and other automated
processes (indexing, for example), which are mostly set to run
at night so they don't interfere with the day's work.
That's another aspect and if I really wanted to save 12 seconds a day
I could set my Mac
to either startup at a specific time or wake/sleep.
I don;t think you can do that with PCs
Well, you don't think much ... BIOSes have startup at given
times for a decade now.
So you need to get into the BIOS exactly not exactly a user friendly
approach.
Wrong.
So what keys do you need to presss on startup ?

I don't even remember, it's been too long.

So you don;t need to change the BIOS that often then,
but its user friendly enough for you to forget which keycombs you need
to get to it.

You're barking up the wrong tree. I can set start times in
the BIOS without entering the BIOS.


Mosyt computers users don;t ........

I've heard the human brain can quiet easily work out such things
especailly in English.

Vrey, vrey qtueily, tgouhh. You tned to mlpiessl ltos of wrods.


I klnow you do with PCS as I work in a PC lab and we have to leave
them on here.
Because your PC lab has an inferior solution everyone has to
adapt that solution?
We leave our PCs on because we use an inferior solution and you do teh
same by the sound of it.

No. Â*I leave the server on because it's a server.

So you use a server PC as a home general purpose PC.
Servers should be left on and backed up and possbley have UPS backup.

And this server you're using is it a battery computer ?

I'm using a computer as a server and as my workstation. The
server functions are just for my use.


Leave it sleeping whenever you are drunk.
Why ?

Your spelling degenerates badly then.

Better than using a battery computer as a server.

You're misunderstanding.


Â*Leave it sleeping
whenever you have no arguments. Â*Leave it sleeping if you don't
feel like superficial spellchecking. Â*Saves a lot of energy.
I leave it sleeping when I'm not using it, why do you find that so
difficult to grasp ?

You shouldn't use it at some times when you do.

But you're also saying I should use it whenh I don't such as when I'm
asleep

Nope.

then it's more efficint for teh computer to be awake to check spelling
is that it ?

From a false assumption follows what?


-Wolfgang

On Thu, 3 May 2012 20:56:58 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:

Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 2 May 2012 23:14:11 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:

If I really am going to write email, do I really need to
switch on the computer first?

I find it works much better if you do.

Not if it's already on.

Then you have already switched the computer on.

Regards,

Eric Stevens

nospam wrote:
In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

So exactly how much time to you save a day by leaving yuor PC on
24/7 ?

Almost a week at times.

Wow amazing I'm glad my iMac does't take as long to get back to where
it was from the last time I used it.

Imagine you being away for the week and your Mac not
answering ...

wake on demand, which works over the internet.

Not in all circumstances. Nor do I want J Random Packet from the
internet to wake the computer. To implement some safe method
to wake the computer I'd need a running computer waiting for
connections and validating them ...

-Wolfgang

Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 3 May 2012 20:56:58 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 2 May 2012 23:14:11 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg

If I really am going to write email, do I really need to
switch on the computer first?

I find it works much better if you do.

Not if it's already on.

Then you have already switched the computer on.

.... some months or years ago.

-Wolfgang

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

So exactly how much time to you save a day by leaving yuor PC on
24/7 ?

Almost a week at times.

Wow amazing I'm glad my iMac does't take as long to get back to where
it was from the last time I used it.

Imagine you being away for the week and your Mac not
answering ...

wake on demand, which works over the internet.

Not in all circumstances. Nor do I want J Random Packet from the
internet to wake the computer. To implement some safe method
to wake the computer I'd need a running computer waiting for
connections and validating them ...

no you don't. you only need a router that implements wake on demand,
which apple airport routers do.

as for locking it down, that is a separate issue and presumably if you
can access your computers from the outside, you have good security in
place.

nospam wrote:
Weisselberg wrote:

So exactly how much time to you save a day by leaving yuor PC on
24/7 ?

Almost a week at times.

Wow amazing I'm glad my iMac does't take as long to get back to where
it was from the last time I used it.

Imagine you being away for the week and your Mac not
answering ...

wake on demand, which works over the internet.

Not in all circumstances. Nor do I want J Random Packet from the
internet to wake the computer. To implement some safe method
to wake the computer I'd need a running computer waiting for
connections and validating them ...

no you don't. you only need a router that implements wake on demand,
which apple airport routers do.

Big news: Scientists have found that routers are, indeed,
computers.

as for locking it down, that is a separate issue and presumably if you
can access your computers from the outside, you have good security in
place.

Could you *try* to read what I wrote? Your paragraph is
completely irrelevant to the problem.

-Wolfgang

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

Imagine you being away for the week and your Mac not
answering ...

wake on demand, which works over the internet.

Not in all circumstances. Nor do I want J Random Packet from the
internet to wake the computer. To implement some safe method
to wake the computer I'd need a running computer waiting for
connections and validating them ...

no you don't. you only need a router that implements wake on demand,
which apple airport routers do.

Big news: Scientists have found that routers are, indeed,
computers.

you know quite well what is meant by 'computer'.

as for locking it down, that is a separate issue and presumably if you
can access your computers from the outside, you have good security in
place.

Could you *try* to read what I wrote? Your paragraph is
completely irrelevant to the problem.

how is it irrelevant? you said you don't want j random packet to wake
your computer. with the proper security, that won't happen.

nospam wrote:
Weisselberg wrote:

Imagine you being away for the week and your Mac not
answering ...

wake on demand, which works over the internet.

Not in all circumstances. Nor do I want J Random Packet from the
internet to wake the computer. To implement some safe method
to wake the computer I'd need a running computer waiting for
connections and validating them ...

no you don't. you only need a router that implements wake on demand,
which apple airport routers do.

Big news: Scientists have found that routers are, indeed,
computers.

you know quite well what is meant by 'computer'.

I don't know what you mean by 'computer'. I know quite well
what I mean by it. And a router, CPU, RAM, permanent storage,
IO and all is one.


as for locking it down, that is a separate issue and presumably if you
can access your computers from the outside, you have good security in
place.

Could you *try* to read what I wrote? Your paragraph is
completely irrelevant to the problem.

how is it irrelevant? you said you don't want j random packet to wake
your computer. with the proper security, that won't happen.

So how would you implement that security? It cannot be implemented
in the computer, since it's sleeping. It has to be implemented
in another computer.

Additionally, tasks running automatically (especially backups)
need the computer to be awake at the times when the tasks are to
be performed.

-Wolfgang