booting computers

Whisky-dave wrote:
On Apr 25, 12:57Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
Trevor wrote:
"Eric Stevens" wrote in message

Only a few have
required that I do it in the course of the day but I have long got
into the habit of shutting my machine down at night to get a clean
start in the morning.
Is electricity free over there? I shut down my computer every night, and
turn it off at the power point, to save electricity mostly. 1 minute to boot
up in the morning is hardly a great imposition when I can be doing something
else anyway.

How long does it take to get back to the same state in all
programs? Â*How much manual intervention does that need?

For me it;'s like kkk.

That's not the question. The point was, if you're writing a
document, editing photos, surfing a dozen websites etc. etc.
etc.: How long till you're back at exactly the same state.
Not just "Computer has booted".


I can walk away from my computer at any time and return at any
time and continue working, no matter what time it is. Â*That's worth
lots to me.

It is to me, but when I go to work I put my computer to sleep.
If I do suddently want to use it I have to take a bus and a tube and
walk, about 1 hours journey

I can connect to my computer from everywhere on the world.
So bus/tube/walk doesn't even apply.


We're not even talking about automatic backup and other automated
processes (indexing, for example), which are mostly set to run
at night so they don't interfere with the day's work.

That's another aspect and if I really wanted to save 12 seconds a day
I could set my Mac
to either startup at a specific time or wake/sleep.
I don;t think you can do that with PCs

Well, you don't think much ... BIOSes have startup at given
times for a decade now.

Of course, if electricity is so dear to you, you might try use
the computer less

or more efficiently would be best.

Less would be better.

-Wolfgang

On 2012-04-30 10:27 , Whisky-dave wrote:

Not for me.

If it's on and I'm not at home is that vusing it more or less
than me leaving it off when I'm not at home.
if I have to wait an extra 3 mins for it to starup from cold than from
sleep (3 seconds)
is tha me using it more in 3 seconds or less in 3 minutes as I'm
confused as to which you see
as being used less and would that be better.

Mix and match as you like (I used 10 cts/kWh [ 0.01 cts/Wh]).

Shut down case:
Shutting down 1 min @ 200 W = 3.2 Wh = 0.032 cents
Starting up 3 min @ 200 W = 10 Wh = 0.096 cents
total = 0.128 cents
Sleep case.
Sleeping all night: 8 h X 2 W = 16 Wh = 0.16 cents

That said, some computers might be @ 300 or more W during shutdown and
startup. Some might be at more when "sleeping".

--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

Whisky-dave wrote:
On Apr 28, 7:40Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
Whisky-dave wrote:
On Apr 25, 12:57Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
Trevor wrote:
"Eric Stevens" wrote in message
Only a few have
required that I do it in the course of the day but I have long got
into the habit of shutting my machine down at night to get a clean
start in the morning.
Is electricity free over there? I shut down my computer every night, and
turn it off at the power point, to save electricity mostly. 1 minute to boot
up in the morning is hardly a great imposition when I can be doing something
else anyway.
How long does it take to get back to the same state in all
programs? Â*How much manual intervention does that need?
For me it;'s like kkk.

That's not the question. Â*The point was, if you're writing a
document, editing photos, surfing a dozen websites etc. etc.
etc.: How long till you're back at exactly the same state.
Not just "Computer has booted".

That depends on how you work.

Lots of programs and windows open.

I can set every application to open at startup/login.

Doesn't return the application to the last state at all.

scripts can be written to do just about everything.

Sure, but I don't want to write and adapt scripts every time I
shut down the computer.

But I use sleep so it's not an issue. with SSD I might turn off
rather than sleep.

Try it. Turn off the computer, turn it back on and see how
long it takes for every program to be back at exactly the
state you left it at.

I can walk away from my computer at any time and return at any
time and continue working, no matter what time it is. Â*That's worth
lots to me.
It is to me, but when I go to work I put my computer to sleep.
If I do suddently want to use it I have to take a bus and a tube and
walk, about 1 hours journey

I can connect to my computer from everywhere on the world.
So bus/tube/walk doesn't even apply.

Me too, and using my ipad I can connect to home if I wanted to, but
only if my computer is on.
I can use the wake function for administartor access if I really need
to.
I don;t need my omputer bringing 100s of watts eveyday jusyt incase I
might need it.

Leaving lights burning costs way more than a few watt-hours.

We're not even talking about automatic backup and other automated
processes (indexing, for example), which are mostly set to run
at night so they don't interfere with the day's work.
That's another aspect and if I really wanted to save 12 seconds a day
I could set my Mac
to either startup at a specific time or wake/sleep.
I don;t think you can do that with PCs

Well, you don't think much ... BIOSes have startup at given
times for a decade now.

So you need to get into the BIOS exactly not exactly a user friendly
approach.

Wrong.

you can;t do it on the fly then for anytime of the day of the week.
So why not use it.
I get home about 6:40pm =/- 30 mins.
I coulkd set my computer to wake or starup at say 6:45pm
but I find little poiint as I leave it in sleep mode.
I can set it to shown down at a particular time and date and restart,
I can set it up to restart after a power failure too.

In effect I don;t need to leave it on for 24/7 just incase I want to
use it.

But in effect you're doing just that.

I klnow you do with PCS as I work in a PC lab and we have to leave
them on here.

Because your PC lab has an inferior solution everyone has to
adapt that solution?

Of course, if electricity is so dear to you, you might try use
the computer less
or more efficiently would be best.

Less would be better.

Not for me.

Don't use it when drunk or use a spell checker.

If it's on and I'm not at home is that vusing it more or less
than me leaving it off when I'm not at home.
if I have to wait an extra 3 mins for it to starup from cold than from
sleep (3 seconds)
is tha me using it more in 3 seconds or less in 3 minutes as I'm
confused as to which you see
as being used less and would that be better.

Leave it sleeping whenever you are drunk. Leave it sleeping
whenever you have no arguments. Leave it sleeping if you don't
feel like superficial spellchecking. Saves a lot of energy.

-Wolfgang

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

But I use sleep so it's not an issue. with SSD I might turn off
rather than sleep.

Try it. Turn off the computer, turn it back on and see how
long it takes for every program to be back at exactly the
state you left it at.

it's longer than sleep/wake (which is instant) but with ssd it's
actually relatively quick for os x lion to boot and resume all apps to
their previous state.

nospam wrote:
In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

But I use sleep so it's not an issue. with SSD I might turn off
rather than sleep.

Try it. Turn off the computer, turn it back on and see how
long it takes for every program to be back at exactly the
state you left it at.

it's longer than sleep/wake (which is instant) but with ssd it's
actually relatively quick for os x lion to boot and resume all apps to
their previous state.

Not hibernate. Reboot.

-Wolfgang

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

But I use sleep so it's not an issue. with SSD I might turn off
rather than sleep.

Try it. Turn off the computer, turn it back on and see how
long it takes for every program to be back at exactly the
state you left it at.

it's longer than sleep/wake (which is instant) but with ssd it's
actually relatively quick for os x lion to boot and resume all apps to
their previous state.

Not hibernate. Reboot.

i didn't say hibernate.

Whisky-dave wrote:
On May 2, 1:25Â*am, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:
Â*But I use sleep so it's not an issue. with SSD I might turn off
rather than sleep.
Try it. Â*Turn off the computer, turn it back on and see how
long it takes for every program to be back at exactly the
state you left it at.
it's longer than sleep/wake (which is instant) but with ssd it's
actually relatively quick for os x lion to boot and resume all apps to
their previous state.

Not hibernate. Â*Reboot.

Why re-bbot i.e switch off and them on again.

Because.

maybe you'd prefer screwing the stats by saying you have to build the
computer from scratch first.

Maybe you should start using a spell checker, instead of
inventing insane arguments.


Maybe it takes a few hours for your PC to get back to the state it was
in when you switch off
bt my Mac From sleep takes about 3-5 seconds. if I don;t have password
protection,
other wiase it takes me a few seconds longer to type my password.

So exactly how much time to you save a day by leaving yuor PC on
24/7 ?

Almost a week at times.

-Wolfgang

Whisky-dave wrote:
On May 1, 2:51Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
Whisky-dave wrote:
On Apr 28, 7:40Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
Whisky-dave wrote:
On Apr 25, 12:57Â*pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
Trevor wrote:
"Eric Stevens" wrote in message
Only a few have
required that I do it in the course of the day but I have long got
into the habit of shutting my machine down at night to get a clean
start in the morning.
Is electricity free over there? I shut down my computer every night, and
turn it off at the power point, to save electricity mostly. 1 minute to boot
up in the morning is hardly a great imposition when I can be doing something
else anyway.
How long does it take to get back to the same state in all
programs? Â*How much manual intervention does that need?
For me it;'s like kkk.
That's not the question. Â*The point was, if you're writing a
document, editing photos, surfing a dozen websites etc. etc.
etc.: How long till you're back at exactly the same state.
Not just "Computer has booted".
That depends on how you work.

Lots of programs and windows open.

So not very efficiently then.

I'm switching between tasks, as needed. Very efficient.


I can set every application to open at startup/login.

Doesn't return the application to the last state at all.

Some do firefox did last night asking if I want to restore to last
session,
I didn't.

Firefox is *one* application out of hundreds I use that don't.


I also tend to save nmy work,m if I need every second accounted for I
can put any document as a startup item and can have any document
applcatioin/game
open at login rather than starup as that's more useful.

Fiddling with the startup is manual, and tends to cost more
time than it saves. Such stuff needs to be fully automatic.


Of course I could do what you suggested adn pay the electricity
company £250 a year
to have my aplpicatiojns readuy for me the second I get home.
But that's of little use in theb real world.

.... for you.


scripts can be written to do just about everything.

Sure, but I don't want to write and adapt scripts every time I
shut down the computer.

you don;t need to you have startup scripts and shutdown scripts.

But then I don't get the functionality.


Â*But I use sleep so it's not an issue. with SSD I might turn off
rather than sleep.

Try it. Â*Turn off the computer, turn it back on and see how
long it takes for every program to be back at exactly the
state you left it at.

What would be the point of that ?

It would prove my point. Which is why you won't do it.


If I'[m going to write an email do I really need to startup photshop
and open every image on teh computer to save time.

If I really am going to write email, do I really need to
switch on the computer first?

Well my make takes about 15 seconds to open PS it takes me longer to
fill teh kettle
which is pretty much teh first thing I do when I get home from work.
well actuqally I hit teh spacebar which wakes my mac.
Within a few second most things are where they were when I put my mac
to sllep 8 hours earlier.
All I've saved is 8 hours of electricity which in reality is less
than a pint of beer,
and perhaps increased the life span of my HD at least.

Your HD lives better without constant stopping and starting.
It is only designed for a limited number of starts and stops.


Also when my computers asleep it's unlikely to get hacked or be used
to spam anyone.

Really.


I can walk away from my computer at any time and return at any
time and continue working, no matter what time it is. Â*That's worth
lots to me.
It is to me, but when I go to work I put my computer to sleep.
If I do suddently want to use it I have to take a bus and a tube and
walk, about 1 hours journey
I can connect to my computer from everywhere on the world.
So bus/tube/walk doesn't even apply.
Me too, and using my ipad I can connect to home if I wanted to, but
only if my computer is on.
I can use the wake function for administartor access if I really need
to.
I don;t need my omputer bringing 100s of watts eveyday jusyt incase I
might need it.

Leaving lights burning costs way more than a few watt-hours.

I don;t do that either, I don;t leave my kettle on, I don;t leave my
TV on.
I'm betting you don;t even know what power your computer uses when on,
idle, sleeping
or playing a high end game or other processor intensive app.

I don't really care for computers that are not fed from
batteries.

I know my mac mini uses an extra 10 watts when burnung a DVD.

Irrelevant.

With my old tower leaving that on for an hour used similar power to 11
CFL lights
I haven't got 11 lights in the flats !!!

Time to buy a laptop.


We're not even talking about automatic backup and other automated
processes (indexing, for example), which are mostly set to run
at night so they don't interfere with the day's work.
That's another aspect and if I really wanted to save 12 seconds a day
I could set my Mac
to either startup at a specific time or wake/sleep.
I don;t think you can do that with PCs
Well, you don't think much ... BIOSes have startup at given
times for a decade now.
So you need to get into the BIOS exactly not exactly a user friendly
approach.

Wrong.

So what keys do you need to presss on startup ?

I don't even remember, it's been too long.

Mosyt computers uses don;t even know a BIOS exists let alone how to
edit it.

Computers??


you can;t do it on the fly then for anytime of the day of the week.
So why not use it.
I get home about 6:40pm =/- 30 mins.
I coulkd set my computer to wake or starup at say 6:45pm
but I find little poiint as I leave it in sleep mode.
I can set it to shown down at a particular time and date and restart,
I can set it up to restart after a power failure too.
In effect I don;t need to leave it on for 24/7 just incase I want to
use it.

But in effect you're doing just that.

except the big diffenrce is saving elecricity and possibly extending
the
effective lifetime of the product.

If you think so ... feel free.

I klnow you do with PCS as I work in a PC lab and we have to leave
them on here.

Because your PC lab has an inferior solution everyone has to
adapt that solution?

We leave our PCs on because we use an inferior solution and you do teh
same by the sound of it.

No. I leave the server on because it's a server.


Of course, if electricity is so dear to you, you might try use
the computer less
or more efficiently would be best.
Less would be better.
Not for me.

Don't use it when drunk or use a spell checker.

If it's on and I'm not at home is that vusing it more or less
than me leaving it off when I'm not at home.
if I have to wait an extra 3 mins for it to starup from cold than from
sleep (3 seconds)
is tha me using it more in 3 seconds or less in 3 minutes as I'm
confused as to which you see
as being used less and would that be better.

Leave it sleeping whenever you are drunk.

Why ?

Your spelling degenerates badly then.


Â*Leave it sleeping
whenever you have no arguments. Â*Leave it sleeping if you don't
feel like superficial spellchecking. Â*Saves a lot of energy.

I leave it sleeping when I'm not using it, why do you find that so
difficult to grasp ?

You shouldn't use it at some times when you do.


-Wolfgang

On Wed, 2 May 2012 23:14:11 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:

If I really am going to write email, do I really need to
switch on the computer first?

I find it works much better if you do.

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 2 May 2012 23:14:11 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:

If I really am going to write email, do I really need to
switch on the computer first?

I find it works much better if you do.

Not if it's already on.

-Wolfgang