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Remember people who forced you to watch their slide shows?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 26th 12, 08:47 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Robert Coe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,901
Default Remember people who forced you to watch their slide shows?

On Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:56 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:
:
: "Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
: news : Trevor wrote:
: BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and storage space!
: :-)
:
: And that's bad because?
:
: I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage space. :-)
: (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
: storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)
:
: And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
: shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being
: saved which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said
: the only difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who
: taught photography, the least he could have done is mention that his
: option may suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he
: obviously had no idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant
: either, and his photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.

I can muster a bit of sympathy for what it must be like to be a newspaper
photographer, with the constant deadline pressure and crappy reproduction of
one's photos. When I shoot an event (always in RAW), the first thing I usually
have to do is convert a few images to JPEG and make them available to our
local newspapers. That can be a bit of a nuisance, especially if the event
ends late at night. But I cover an event every couple of weeks, on average,
which is nothing like doing several a day with even greater deadline pressure.
So I can understand the temptation of relegating everything to quick and dirty
procedures, eschewing such niceties as RAW mode and unsharp masks, as long as
the editor doesn't give me a hard time.

Come to think of it, do we have any newspaper photographers (active or
retired) in the group? I can't recall anyone mentioning having been one.

Bob
  #2  
Old May 26th 12, 09:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Remember people who forced you to watch their slide shows?

On 2012-05-26 12:47:00 -0700, Robert Coe said:

On Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:56 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:
:
: "Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
: news : Trevor wrote:
: BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and storage space!
: :-)
:
: And that's bad because?
:
: I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage space. :-)
: (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
: storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)
:
: And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
: shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being
: saved which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said
: the only difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who
: taught photography, the least he could have done is mention that his
: option may suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he
: obviously had no idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant
: either, and his photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.

I can muster a bit of sympathy for what it must be like to be a newspaper
photographer, with the constant deadline pressure and crappy reproduction of
one's photos. When I shoot an event (always in RAW), the first thing I usually
have to do is convert a few images to JPEG and make them available to our
local newspapers. That can be a bit of a nuisance, especially if the event
ends late at night. But I cover an event every couple of weeks, on average,
which is nothing like doing several a day with even greater deadline pressure.
So I can understand the temptation of relegating everything to quick and dirty
procedures, eschewing such niceties as RAW mode and unsharp masks, as long as
the editor doesn't give me a hard time.

Come to think of it, do we have any newspaper photographers (active or
retired) in the group? I can't recall anyone mentioning having been one.

Bob


Then why not shoot RAW + JPEG?
....and since you have the full RAW file it isn't even necessary to have
the JPEG at full size, or compression. A newspaper is going to be
printing halftones anyway, so image quality is not one of their great
priorities. As has been stated in this thread, shooting RAW+JPEG is not
too much of a penalty memory-wise.

For the few occasions I need to have immediate sharing access to images
for some folks (in your case newspapers), I intentionally change from
my usual RAW only to RAW+JPEG. With my D300s & its dual card slots, it
is simple to save the RAW files to the CF card and the JPEGS to the
SDHC card. Even with a single memory card system, memory is cheap.
With my G11, RAW+JPEG is my standard recording mode as that is the
camera the instant gratification snapshots are primarily sourced from
--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #3  
Old May 26th 12, 10:29 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Robert Coe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,901
Default Remember people who forced you to watch their slide shows?

On Sat, 26 May 2012 13:59:44 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
: On 2012-05-26 12:47:00 -0700, Robert Coe said:
:
: On Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:56 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:
: :
: : "Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
: : news : : Trevor wrote:
: : BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and storage space!
: : :-)
: :
: : And that's bad because?
: :
: : I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage space. :-)
: : (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
: : storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)
: :
: : And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
: : shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being
: : saved which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said
: : the only difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who
: : taught photography, the least he could have done is mention that his
: : option may suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he
: : obviously had no idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant
: : either, and his photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.
:
: I can muster a bit of sympathy for what it must be like to be a newspaper
: photographer, with the constant deadline pressure and crappy reproduction of
: one's photos. When I shoot an event (always in RAW), the first thing I usually
: have to do is convert a few images to JPEG and make them available to our
: local newspapers. That can be a bit of a nuisance, especially if the event
: ends late at night. But I cover an event every couple of weeks, on average,
: which is nothing like doing several a day with even greater deadline pressure.
: So I can understand the temptation of relegating everything to quick and dirty
: procedures, eschewing such niceties as RAW mode and unsharp masks, as long as
: the editor doesn't give me a hard time.
:
: Come to think of it, do we have any newspaper photographers (active or
: retired) in the group? I can't recall anyone mentioning having been one.
:
: Bob
:
: Then why not shoot RAW + JPEG?
: ...and since you have the full RAW file it isn't even necessary to have
: the JPEG at full size, or compression. A newspaper is going to be
: printing halftones anyway, so image quality is not one of their great
: priorities. As has been stated in this thread, shooting RAW+JPEG is not
: too much of a penalty memory-wise.

In my case, the answer is that I'm not that good. The pictures I produce
always seem to need cropping, white balance adjustment, brightness tuning,
etc. And I can make those fixes more effectively in RAW than in JPEG.

I'm not particularly concerned about memory. I work for our Information
Technology Department. I can get as big a computer, and as much disk space on
our servers, as I need. In my cameras I use 16GB CF cards, and I can't
remember the last time I had to change cards during a shoot. (At events I
almost always use two cameras, so I have a capacity of about 1000 shots.)

Bob
  #4  
Old May 26th 12, 11:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Remember people who forced you to watch their slide shows?

On 2012-05-26 14:29:41 -0700, Robert Coe said:

On Sat, 26 May 2012 13:59:44 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
: On 2012-05-26 12:47:00 -0700, Robert Coe said:
:
: On Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:56 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:
: :
: : "Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
: : news : : Trevor wrote:
: : BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and
storage space!
: : :-)
: :
: : And that's bad because?
: :
: : I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage
space. :-)
: : (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
: : storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)
: :
: : And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
: : shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being
: : saved which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said
: : the only difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who
: : taught photography, the least he could have done is mention that his
: : option may suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he
: : obviously had no idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant
: : either, and his photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.
:
: I can muster a bit of sympathy for what it must be like to be a newspaper
: photographer, with the constant deadline pressure and crappy
reproduction of
: one's photos. When I shoot an event (always in RAW), the first
thing I usually
: have to do is convert a few images to JPEG and make them available to our
: local newspapers. That can be a bit of a nuisance, especially if the event
: ends late at night. But I cover an event every couple of weeks, on average,
: which is nothing like doing several a day with even greater
deadline pressure.
: So I can understand the temptation of relegating everything to
quick and dirty
: procedures, eschewing such niceties as RAW mode and unsharp masks,
as long as
: the editor doesn't give me a hard time.
:
: Come to think of it, do we have any newspaper photographers (active or
: retired) in the group? I can't recall anyone mentioning having been one.
:
: Bob
:
: Then why not shoot RAW + JPEG?
: ...and since you have the full RAW file it isn't even necessary to have
: the JPEG at full size, or compression. A newspaper is going to be
: printing halftones anyway, so image quality is not one of their great
: priorities. As has been stated in this thread, shooting RAW+JPEG is not
: too much of a penalty memory-wise.

In my case, the answer is that I'm not that good. The pictures I produce
always seem to need cropping, white balance adjustment, brightness tuning,
etc. And I can make those fixes more effectively in RAW than in JPEG.


So? Neither am I.
Shoot WB auto, don't bother with cropping other than to standard sizes
required by the newspaper. If the brightness/contrast isn't to your
liking out of the camera, just hit it with "auto contrast" & "Auto
tone". In most cases you shouldn't even have to bother with that. Your
standard of perfection isn't required in a World where newspapers are
happy to use unprocessed camera phone images.

Shooting for yourself and /or a client who cares about image quality
and composition is one thing, one where tweaking a RAW file is
preferred. That is my usual practice. However submitting a jpeg capture
to a newspaper, where the photo editor is probably going to make
his/her crops to fit, is a quick and dirty affair not worth exerting
the same post effort as you would for your RAW files. (see note on
camera phone images)

Newspaper images are not client PR, or magazine shots, or fine art.
Hell! For the most part they aren't even worthy of online publication.


I'm not particularly concerned about memory.


Good!

I work for our Information
Technology Department. I can get as big a computer, and as much disk space on
our servers, as I need. In my cameras I use 16GB CF cards, and I can't
remember the last time I had to change cards during a shoot. (At events I
almost always use two cameras, so I have a capacity of about 1000 shots.)

Bob


Yup! I use 16GB CF cards and 8GB SDHC cards. I usually shoot RAW only
with overflow going to the SCHD card. If shooting RAW+JPEG RAW is
recorded on CF, JPEG on SCHD. I carry extra memory.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #5  
Old May 27th 12, 10:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Robert Coe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,901
Default Remember people who forced you to watch their slide shows?

On Sat, 26 May 2012 15:09:52 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
: On 2012-05-26 14:29:41 -0700, Robert Coe said:
:
: On Sat, 26 May 2012 13:59:44 -0700, Savageduck
: wrote:
: : On 2012-05-26 12:47:00 -0700, Robert Coe said:
: :
: : On Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:56 +1000, "Trevor" wrote:
: : :
: : : "Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
: : : news : : : Trevor wrote:
: : : BTW he always shoots in jpg only on a 5D2 to save time and
: storage space!
: : : :-)
: : :
: : : And that's bad because?
: : :
: : : I wondered if he threw away his negatives as well to save storage
: space. :-)
: : : (I told him there was a RAW + JPG option if he needed to save time, and
: : : storage space was rather a non issue for most people these days)
: : :
: : : And it's really bad because he told the audience there was no point in
: : : shooting RAW, and he didn't understand the loss of dynamic range being
: : : saved which gives no chance to make satisfactory changes later. He said
: : : the only difference was a very small loss in detail. For someone who
: : : taught photography, the least he could have done is mention that his
: : : option may suit newspaper photo's, but not art photography. But he
: : : obviously had no idea. Of course he had no idea what "unsharp mask" meant
: : : either, and his photo's proved the real extent of his other limitations.
: :
: : I can muster a bit of sympathy for what it must be like to be a newspaper
: : photographer, with the constant deadline pressure and crappy
: reproduction of
: : one's photos. When I shoot an event (always in RAW), the first
: thing I usually
: : have to do is convert a few images to JPEG and make them available to our
: : local newspapers. That can be a bit of a nuisance, especially if the event
: : ends late at night. But I cover an event every couple of weeks, on average,
: : which is nothing like doing several a day with even greater
: deadline pressure.
: : So I can understand the temptation of relegating everything to
: quick and dirty
: : procedures, eschewing such niceties as RAW mode and unsharp masks,
: as long as
: : the editor doesn't give me a hard time.
: :
: : Come to think of it, do we have any newspaper photographers (active or
: : retired) in the group? I can't recall anyone mentioning having been one.
: :
: : Bob
: :
: : Then why not shoot RAW + JPEG?
: : ...and since you have the full RAW file it isn't even necessary to have
: : the JPEG at full size, or compression. A newspaper is going to be
: : printing halftones anyway, so image quality is not one of their great
: : priorities. As has been stated in this thread, shooting RAW+JPEG is not
: : too much of a penalty memory-wise.
:
: In my case, the answer is that I'm not that good. The pictures I produce
: always seem to need cropping, white balance adjustment, brightness tuning,
: etc. And I can make those fixes more effectively in RAW than in JPEG.
:
: So? Neither am I.
: Shoot WB auto, don't bother with cropping other than to standard sizes
: required by the newspaper. If the brightness/contrast isn't to your
: liking out of the camera, just hit it with "auto contrast" & "Auto
: tone". In most cases you shouldn't even have to bother with that. Your
: standard of perfection isn't required in a World where newspapers are
: happy to use unprocessed camera phone images.
:
: Shooting for yourself and /or a client who cares about image quality
: and composition is one thing, one where tweaking a RAW file is
: preferred. That is my usual practice. However submitting a jpeg capture
: to a newspaper, where the photo editor is probably going to make
: his/her crops to fit, is a quick and dirty affair not worth exerting
: the same post effort as you would for your RAW files. (see note on
: camera phone images)
:
: Newspaper images are not client PR, or magazine shots, or fine art.
: Hell! For the most part they aren't even worthy of online publication.

I see your point, and there's a lot of evidence to support what you say. But I
have the good fortune to find myself, as much by dumb luck as by demonstrated
skill, in a situation where photography is a significant part of my day job.
If I screw it up, it isn't going to be because I ever deliberately produced
less than my best work.

Bob
  #6  
Old May 28th 12, 03:36 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital
Trevor[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 874
Default Remember people who forced you to watch their slide shows?


"Robert Coe" wrote in message
...
In my cameras I use 16GB CF cards, and I can't
remember the last time I had to change cards during a shoot.


I can, it was back when 1GB CF cards were still considered big, and
expensive :-(
Besides multiple cards I had a hard drive backup device I no longer use.

Trevor.


 




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