Stick with Hassy or go Bronica?

This is a more thinking-out-loud post than a serious question- I just wanted
thoughts from those who might have more experience.

I have a Nikon 35mm outfit, and can see that being replaced by digital in
the next five years. I have access to a darkroom with large format enlarger
and black and white print processor, so I decided to explore black and white
medium format photography.

I got a good deal on a Hasselblad 500c/m- with 80mm T* and PM (45 degree)
prism, Accumat D screen, 16mm extension tube, proxar, 2x backs etc.

I started by spending 10% of the cost of the kit on a mirror foam
replacement by Hasselblad UK. Then the backs both had their light seals go,
so I bought new seal kits and new darkslides. I then had various jamming
problems (lens jam with extension tube, body jam, etc). I am in a love/hate
relationship with the machine. I don't feel like I can rely on it. But I
like its looks and it feels like it should last a while. However, when
Hasselblad UK looked at it for the mirror foam, they said it was 'running
dry' and needed a service (which would cost more than another secondhand
body).

I currently use medium format for still life, landscape and portraits. I
want to add a 40mm or 50mm lens to my outfit, for landscapes. However,
looking at the price of Zeiss glass has put me off- I can get a Bronica
SQ-AI outfit with 80 and 50/40mm lens, AE prism, speed grip, spare backs,
etc. for about the same price once I sell the Hasselblad kit I already have.

I tried out the SQ-AI (handled it, didn't shoot any film), and it seems
quite 'plasticky', but the lens felt much nicer to my 35mm-accustomed hands
than the stiff metal Hasselblad C lens. I don't think I would use AE all
that much, as it is unusable with mirror lock-up (which I use for 95% of
shots). I also would need at least one extension tube (and the Bronica ones
are very expensive).

I don't feel 100% happy with the reliability of the Hasselblad, but I am OK
with the time it takes to set up for still lives, etc. I love the bright
viewfinder image. I'm dreading a malfunction of the mechanics that results
in a dead lens and body- I feel electronics would need less servicing, and
love the shutter speeds down to 16 seconds on the Bronica.

What do people think are my best options? Keep the Hasselblad with just the
80mm and keep wideangle for 35mm? Keep it and buy an expensive 50mm CF lens?
Sell it and buy a Bronica outfit?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Ben

"Angry Angel" wrote in message
...
I have a Nikon 35mm outfit, and can see that being replaced by digital in
the next five years. I have access to a darkroom with large format
enlarger

What do people think are my best options? Keep the Hasselblad with just
the
80mm and keep wideangle for 35mm? Keep it and buy an expensive 50mm CF
lens?
Sell it and buy a Bronica outfit?
One advantage of the Bronica is that the focus orientation is the same as
Nikon.
Counterclockwise for far to near. I think it's opposite on the Hasselblad.
That alone
would drive me crazy.
Sorry but due to spam I shall not provide a valid e-mail address.
Please reply to group with questions or comments.

I won't disuade you from Hassy, because it's a fine product, but consider these
facts:
1) Hassy backs all need work eventually. In fact just about ANY camera with
removeable backs needs work on the backs. Hassy's just seem to need backs done
more than other areas. 2) A used Hassy might have lots of miles on it,
because so many Hassy's start life owned by a pro, whereas most Bronica's don't
start off in pro usage. There are areas which are predominantly filled with
pros using Hassy (Florida is one example), so Bronica's are pro caliber, don't
think otherwise! 3) Foam breaks down due to oxidation...that is natural. I
have speakers with foam surrounds around the 12" woofer cones, and they had to
be replaced after about 10 years! 4) Yes, electronically timed shutters do
tend to hold calibration over the years better than mechanical shutter timing
mechanisms, but even electronic shutters do break down on occasion. 5) 35mm
SLR's departed from metal bodies long ago, an no one thinks twice about buying
'plastic', so buying MF should be no different in that regard. A plastic
outside simply goes over a metal chassis in most 'plastic' cameras.

--Wilton

Angry Angel wrote:
What do people think are my best options? Keep the Hasselblad with
just the 80mm and keep wideangle for 35mm? Keep it and buy an
expensive 50mm CF lens? Sell it and buy a Bronica outfit?

I have no experience with Hasselblads because I never owned one. Many
photographers seem to think of them as sort of a status symbol...gotta have
it and every known accessory or you're not a real pro.

I was a professional photographer for 50 years and my goal was to maximize
profit. Hasselblads are are just too damn expensive to justify IMO.
Especially considering that they seem to be a bit on the fussy side,
especially the magazines.

Never used that particular Bronica but did use Bronica ETRs for years and
never had a moments trouble.

--
dadiOH
_____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.0...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
____________________________

The famous lens-jam problem is mentioned in the manual. If you don't have
a manual, ask here and I can email you a PDF version.

"Angry Angel" wrote:

This is a more thinking-out-loud post than a serious question- I just
wanted
thoughts from those who might have more experience.

I owned a Hassy 500C for a long time: sold it to go back to grad school.

I got a good deal on a Hasselblad 500c/m- with 80mm T* and PM (45 degree)
prism, Accumat D screen, 16mm extension tube, proxar, 2x backs etc.

I started by spending 10% of the cost of the kit on a mirror foam
replacement by Hasselblad UK. Then the backs both had their light seals
go,
so I bought new seal kits and new darkslides. I then had various jamming
problems (lens jam with extension tube, body jam, etc).

The lens/tube/body jam problem is user error. You have to
assemble/disassemble things in the right way. RTFM. (It's not hard if you
understand how it works.)

I am in a love/hate
relationship with the machine. I don't feel like I can rely on it. But I
like its looks and it feels like it should last a while. However, when
Hasselblad UK looked at it for the mirror foam, they said it was 'running
dry' and needed a service (which would cost more than another secondhand
body).

The 80/2.8 Planar's a lovely lens. If you find yourself without it, you will
always be wondering how much you are missing. Get the thing serviced and
keep it. You'll regret it if you let it go. (Been there, done that.)

I currently use medium format for still life, landscape and portraits. I
want to add a 40mm or 50mm lens to my outfit, for landscapes. However,
looking at the price of Zeiss glass has put me off- I can get a Bronica
SQ-AI outfit with 80 and 50/40mm lens, AE prism, speed grip, spare backs,
etc. for about the same price once I sell the Hasselblad kit I already
have.

Yup. Lens prices is why I don't own Hassy. Kits are in the US$1,100 range,
quite reasonable. Cheaper than a Rolleiflex 2.8F!

I don't feel 100% happy with the reliability of the Hasselblad, but I am
OK
with the time it takes to set up for still lives, etc. I love the bright
viewfinder image. I'm dreading a malfunction of the mechanics that results
in a dead lens and body- I feel electronics would need less servicing, and
love the shutter speeds down to 16 seconds on the Bronica.

I think you are wrong about Hassy reliability. Tamron/Bronica are retreating
from MF as fast as they can run, and I'd be seriously worried about parts
and repairs. If you avoid silver lenses (and a couple of other minor
exceptions), that's not an issue with Hassy.

What do people think are my best options? Keep the Hasselblad with just
the
80mm and keep wideangle for 35mm? Keep it and buy an expensive 50mm CF
lens?
Sell it and buy a Bronica outfit?

You could forget other Hassy lenses, and do Pentax or Mamiya 645 for wide
(the 35mm lens is an amazing amount of fun on 645, and they're much cheaper
and much lighter than either the 40 or the 50mm Hassy lenses). Keep the
Hassy for 80mm work and closeups. The Mamiya 645 110/2.8 lens is a sweet
lens, but it's been discontinued, and I don't think there was ever a Pentax
equivalent. Most people use a 150mm lens for portaits anyway.

Also, I really liked the plastic focussing grip for the Hassy, if you find
focussing painful on the fingers. Others don't like it, so YMMV.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

Angry Angel wrote:


What do people think are my best options? Keep the Hasselblad with just
the 80mm and keep wideangle for 35mm? Keep it and buy an expensive 50mm CF
lens? Sell it and buy a Bronica outfit?


This is why I didn't buy a hassy. I just couldn't stomach the lens prices.
I'd need a 40mm and I know I'd never be able to aford one. If I am going to
be "stuck" with one lens, I'd use a rolleiflex or a fuji rangefinder.

Do you really need 6X6? I too like it but added a mamiya 645 to my kiev
collection and like it so far, used older models are super cheap, I paid
$150 for a M645 body from KEH in excellent condition. Also I can use all
the P-6 lenses (and others with hacked mounts) using adapters, which opens
up all sorts of options using CZJ lenses, arsat shift etc. I can relate to
the "love/hate" thing when a machine isn't trustworthy. I finally have some
kiev bodies I trust but I went through several to get there! :-)

--

Stacey

Thanks for all the replies.

My current thinking is that I am going to buy a SQ-Ai outfit and see how I
like it before selling the Hasselblad.

I think I may be able to use the expensive extension tubes to justify a auto
bellows- not really fun to use without a TTL meter (as on my Hasselblad), so
the SQ-Ai should make close-ups easier.

Could someone tell me if the Bronica Auto Bellows S requires a double cable
release, or does it maintain electrical conenctions?

in article , David J. Littleboy at
wrote on 22/6/04 3:31 am:

The lens/tube/body jam problem is user error. You have to
assemble/disassemble things in the right way. RTFM. (It's not hard if you
understand how it works.)

The first lens/extension tube jam I had was indeed user error- I tried to
remove the extension tube and the lens together. This jam was very tricky to
correct (not the usual body re-cocking), but I admit it has not happened
since. However, every time I take off my extension tube (alone) it fires its
miniature mechanism, jamming it on. I have to put a finger on the cocking
mechanism of the tube to stop this. I know this can probably be fixed, but
it is probably cheaper to buy another tube that have it repaired.

The body jam occurred when the body got stuck mid-release-cycle, not sure
how it happened. The body showed it was uncocked, but could not be recocked
in the normal way. The lens had not fired, and the lens couldn't be removed.
I took the camera out of the case in that state-maybe the release had be
pushed? I don't know. It took a while fiddling with the internal body
re-cocking screw. Again, this would probably be fixed if I forked out much
more than I paid for the body to have it repaired.

The 80/2.8 Planar's a lovely lens. If you find yourself without it, you will
always be wondering how much you are missing. Get the thing serviced and
keep it. You'll regret it if you let it go. (Been there, done that.)
I think you are wrong about Hassy reliability. Tamron/Bronica are retreating
from MF as fast as they can run, and I'd be seriously worried about parts
and repairs. If you avoid silver lenses (and a couple of other minor
exceptions), that's not an issue with Hassy.

Unfortunately, it is a C T* black lens- with Compur shutter for which there
are no parts made, so it cannot be serviced by Hasselblad (although some
repairers will scavenge parts from old lenses).

Also, I really liked the plastic focussing grip for the Hassy, if you find
focussing painful on the fingers. Others don't like it, so YMMV.

I loved the idea of it- bought one and within 30 seconds of receiving it, I
broke it by over-tightening the screw (it didn't appear to be getting any
harder to turn the screw, then the ring cracked).


David J. Littleboy

Thanks for your comments David,

Ben

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:19:15 +0100, Ben Micklem
wrote:



Could someone tell me if the Bronica Auto Bellows S requires a double cable
release, or does it maintain electrical conenctions?

It retains the electrical connections to run the shutter but the flash
sync is on the front standard of the bellows and is not connected back
to the camera, so on an SQAi you could not use a TTL flash connected
by the TTL port, it won't fire the flash. I rigged a workaround by
mounting an 18mm extension tube between the bellows and body to make
some clearance from the camera body and use a Metz male to male pc
connector from the body pc plug to the front standard pc plug and
everything worked fine. If you are using the SQA which the bellows was
originally designed for then theres no problems other than exposure
calculations you would normally be dealing with using a flash.

I currently use medium format for still life, landscape and portraits. I
want to add a 40mm or 50mm lens to my outfit, for landscapes.

Have you considered a Mamiya C330 TLR with a 55mm? You could get it for
around $300 or even less, and the 55mm is really, really good. It could be a
very affordable solution for your problem. Even cheapr, a C220 would be
perfect for landscapes: it lacks parrallax correction, but it is not a
problem with long distances, and it is much lighter (but as solidly built)
and more convenient to carry around. Just keep the Hassy and the 80, as the
Mamiya's 80 is not that good.

Regards,
--
Vincent Becker
Photographie et appareils anciens - Photography and classic cameras
URL:http://www.lumieresenboite.com
Merci de passer par mon site pour les réponses par courriel