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B&W only sensors, when?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 15th 08, 04:45 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
RichA[_3_]
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Posts: 336
Default B&W only sensors, when?

Lack of modularity with the pro DSLRs is the culprit. Medium format cameras
(I think) offer this as an option. No Bayer filter backs. I know they
offer no AA filter backs. So is the market for B&W shooters so small they
can't offer them this option? After all, Fuji made an IR-only DSLR, how
large is that market?


  #2  
Old December 15th 08, 04:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Steven Wandy
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Posts: 36
Default B&W only sensors, when?

Probably neither is very big. The reason for an IR-only DSLR is that
you really cannot duplicate a true IR look in post processing
software, while there are many ways to convert a color image file to
B&W. And some of these give you tremendous options for how the
conversion is done and how it finally looks.


Lack of modularity with the pro DSLRs is the culprit. Medium format cameras
(I think) offer this as an option. No Bayer filter backs. I know they
offer no AA filter backs. So is the market for B&W shooters so small they
can't offer them this option? After all, Fuji made an IR-only DSLR, how
large is that market?

  #3  
Old December 15th 08, 09:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
[email protected]
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Posts: 21
Default B&W only sensors, when?


"Steven Wandy" wrote in message
...
Probably neither is very big. The reason for an IR-only DSLR is that
you really cannot duplicate a true IR look in post processing
software, while there are many ways to convert a color image file to
B&W. And some of these give you tremendous options for how the
conversion is done and how it finally looks.


Lack of modularity with the pro DSLRs is the culprit. Medium format
cameras
(I think) offer this as an option. No Bayer filter backs. I know they
offer no AA filter backs. So is the market for B&W shooters so small they
can't offer them this option? After all, Fuji made an IR-only DSLR, how
large is that market?

The Fuji cameras (3 models) like their S3 Pro UV IR were really designed for
the scientific and forensic end-user. As you can't fake the revealing
photography that UV/IR gives with PhotoShop.



  #4  
Old December 15th 08, 10:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default B&W only sensors, when?

RichA wrote:
Lack of modularity with the pro DSLRs is the culprit. Medium format
cameras (I think) offer this as an option. No Bayer filter backs. I
know they offer no AA filter backs. So is the market for B&W
shooters so small they can't offer them this option? After all, Fuji
made an IR-only DSLR, how large is that market?


RGB camera images are routinely converted to fine B&W images, so why
give up the capability to do both?

I'm no expert in color to B&W conversions, but isn't it a matter of
luminance in each channel appropriately balanced with green for resolution?

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
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  #5  
Old December 15th 08, 11:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Paul Furman
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Posts: 7,367
Default B&W only sensors, when?

Alan Browne wrote:
RichA wrote:
Lack of modularity with the pro DSLRs is the culprit. Medium format
cameras (I think) offer this as an option. No Bayer filter backs. I
know they offer no AA filter backs. So is the market for B&W
shooters so small they can't offer them this option? After all, Fuji
made an IR-only DSLR, how large is that market?


RGB camera images are routinely converted to fine B&W images, so why
give up the capability to do both?

I'm no expert in color to B&W conversions, but isn't it a matter of
luminance in each channel appropriately balanced with green for resolution?


With a true monochrome sensor you'd have better high ISO/dynamic range,
just like true B&W film though you'd have to put filters on the front
which cuts down on light some and bayer doesn't lose hardly any
luminance detail.



--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
  #6  
Old December 16th 08, 01:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default B&W only sensors, when?

In article , RichA
wrote:

So is the market for B&W shooters so small they
can't offer them this option?


basically, yes.

After all, Fuji made an IR-only DSLR, how
large is that market?


it's not very large, but what else were they going to do with the
leftover s3 bodies?
  #7  
Old December 16th 08, 01:56 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default B&W only sensors, when?

Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
RichA wrote:
Lack of modularity with the pro DSLRs is the culprit. Medium format
cameras (I think) offer this as an option. No Bayer filter backs. I
know they offer no AA filter backs. So is the market for B&W
shooters so small they can't offer them this option? After all, Fuji
made an IR-only DSLR, how large is that market?


RGB camera images are routinely converted to fine B&W images, so why
give up the capability to do both?

I'm no expert in color to B&W conversions, but isn't it a matter of
luminance in each channel appropriately balanced with green for
resolution?


With a true monochrome sensor you'd have better high ISO/dynamic range,
just like true B&W film though you'd have to put filters on the front
which cuts down on light some and bayer doesn't lose hardly any
luminance detail.


Then I don't see the real advantage. And neither it seems do the camera
co's.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.
  #8  
Old December 16th 08, 02:51 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Paul Furman
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Posts: 7,367
Default B&W only sensors, when?

Alan Browne wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
RichA wrote:
Lack of modularity with the pro DSLRs is the culprit. Medium format
cameras (I think) offer this as an option. No Bayer filter backs. I
know they offer no AA filter backs. So is the market for B&W
shooters so small they can't offer them this option? After all, Fuji
made an IR-only DSLR, how large is that market?

RGB camera images are routinely converted to fine B&W images, so why
give up the capability to do both?

I'm no expert in color to B&W conversions, but isn't it a matter of
luminance in each channel appropriately balanced with green for
resolution?


With a true monochrome sensor you'd have better high ISO/dynamic
range, just like true B&W film though you'd have to put filters on the
front which cuts down on light some and bayer doesn't lose hardly any
luminance detail.


Then I don't see the real advantage. And neither it seems do the camera
co's.


I once thought it would be a neat idea but am wondering.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
  #9  
Old December 16th 08, 03:17 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J. Littleboy
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Posts: 2,618
Default B&W only sensors, when?


"Paul Furman" wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:
With a true monochrome sensor you'd have better high ISO/dynamic range,
just like true B&W film though you'd have to put filters on the front
which cuts down on light some and bayer doesn't lose hardly any
luminance detail.


Then I don't see the real advantage. And neither it seems do the camera
co's.


I once thought it would be a neat idea but am wondering.


Ditto. I was surprised at how much detail there is in the red channel in
demosaiced Bayer images; I was expecting 1/4 resolution, whereas one gets
pretty much the same detail in the red channel as in a balanced monochrome
conversion.

--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


  #10  
Old December 16th 08, 03:22 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default B&W only sensors, when?

Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:


With a true monochrome sensor you'd have better high ISO/dynamic
range, just like true B&W film though you'd have to put filters on
the front which cuts down on light some and bayer doesn't lose hardly
any luminance detail.


Then I don't see the real advantage. And neither it seems do the
camera co's.


I once thought it would be a neat idea but am wondering.


It just ocured to me (well, I was looking at the wiki article on RGB...)
that if one had a luminance (white only) sensor system then he could
take 3 separate photographs with R then G then B optical filters over
the lens and then combine them after and get 36 to 42-bit deep color in
every pixel... that would make for great landscape images... in effect
that's how the first color photos were made back in the 1800's...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_col...el#Photography

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.
 




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