[SI] Street - The Duck Comments - The Newman Edition

SI Mandate: http://www.pbase.com/shootin/street_photography

‘Duck comments:
It would have been nice to have a few more contributors for “Street
Photography� considering the extra time permitted. I must confess to
having left things to the last minute myself.

Bowser:
First I am going to address each of your shots and then a general
observation regarding your particular process.

Street-01:
Nice capture of a clean up on the plaza, with the sweeper dealing with
what must be a New England chill with his turned-up collar.
Street-02:
Loading up at the market. All involved seem to be oblivious of your
camera, as it should be for good street photography.
Street-03:
Good street shot, but I can’t help but suspect your subject’s reaction
or vocalization was due to the camera in your hands aimed at him.

Now, regarding my feelings regarding your post processing. Your attempt
to demonstrate, or create a B&W film grain effect was just terrible.
What you succeeded in doing was introducing color noise, which to my
eye is not a B&W film emulation. The color noise becomes a distraction
to what would otherwise be good and thoughtful street photographs.
I know that you are using software which might attack the effect
differently to the way others here, myself included might go about
adding grain. I just feel that this time your technique failed.

Rob:
Street-01:
Nice capture of a street artisan at work. He is engaged in his task
oblivious to all around him. Well done.
Street-02:
Not quite what I think of as typical street photography, but a
fascinating pattern of parked bikes none the less.
Street-03:
This I like. Great shot even though his improvised “no photography�
sign might indicate your subject wouldn’t be too happy to find you
behind him. Your toning work in post has also produced an interesting
effect appropriate to this image.

Savageduck (yours truly):
I almost didn’t get fresh shots for this mandate, so I dragged myself
out on Saturday morning to see who else was out and about.
Street-01:
A Western gent at a Paso Robles farmers market oozing an elegance and
aloofness I just had to capture.
Street-02:
In San Luis Obispo we find the other side of the coin. This unfortunate
hardly had the energy to lift his begging cup to passers-by. One can
only wish him well for the New Year.
Street-03:
I came across this seated juggler as I walked back to where I had
parked my car. He was sitting alone on that bench with no apparent
audience, just lost in his juggling.

Tony Cooper:
Street-01:
Nice one! Watching the artist work. Subtle and understated observation.
Street-02:
A break in the Sun. Nice, with a good B&W conversion.
Street-03:
Great shot! Apathetic resignation personified.


DanP:
Street-01:
Young ladies out on some sort of spree. Nice work


Bob Coe:
Street-01:
A touch of the exotic in New England. Indian street food as the subject
of street photography. Nice!
Street-02:
OK! Confess. You just pulled this from a project at work. Certainly a
shot of what one day might be a street, but not what I would expect as
typical “street� photography.
Street-03:
I’ll give you this one. Good use of available light. I have one
question. Who was he saving the parking space for?


Peter Newman:
…and here is my addendum:

Street-01:
OK! I guess you had to use a “street� to get to the beach. I would call
this more “eye-candy candid� than street. That is not to say I don’t
enjoy the anticipation to the hormone level changes I might experience
due to the promise of this capture. .
Street-02:
Nice capture! Now while your introduction of grain is better executed
than Bowser’s attempt, it seems a little less than subtle to me. I
would have preferred a lighter hand in that area. Though I suspect the
problem might have been the ISO 25,600 you used. Somehow I think that
was you pushing your new D800 to an extreme uncalled for at that
particular location.
Street-03:
Much better, but still a little noisy in the face. I like this shot.
I know you have this thing for high ISO, but just because your camera
is capable of capturing images at those high ISO levels doesn’t mean
you should push it all the time. The two B&W images you submitted would
have, in my opinion, been far better at a lower ISO.


Thanks to all who found the time to play.
Let’s just hope the new mandate will bring in many more contributors
next time around.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 05:27:48 -0800, Savageduck,
news:2013010805274837335-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom expounded this
theory:

Thanks to all who found the time to play.
Let¢s just hope the new mandate will bring in many more contributors
next time around.

Depending on what the new mandate is I might chuck my hat in the
ring. Shame I didn't spot this last street one.

--
Graham
Comments and criticism welcome
http://www.lodeway.com

On 2013-01-08 06:29:12 -0800, Graham said:

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 05:27:48 -0800, Savageduck,
news:2013010805274837335-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom expounded this
theory:

Thanks to all who found the time to play.
Let’s just hope the new mandate will bring in many more contributors
next time around.

Depending on what the new mandate is I might chuck my hat in the
ring. Shame I didn't spot this last street one.

I was surprised not to see any of your masterful Cambridge & London
street shots this time around.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 06:53:41 -0800, Savageduck,
news:2013010806534177006-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom expounded this
theory:

Depending on what the new mandate is I might chuck my hat in the
ring. Shame I didn't spot this last street one.

I was surprised not to see any of your masterful Cambridge & London
street shots this time around.

I've had commitments over the last few weeks that prevented me from
getting any fresh street stuff. Things are easing off now so I'll be
out and about soon. I'm also getting together a gallery of nothing
but my street stuff.

PS: I agree with your comment about the noise. Grain on digital needs
to be very subtle. I use three different programs for b/w conversion,
one of the programs will always work better with a particular image
that the others. Silver Efex Pro, LR4 and DxO FilmPack 3. My most
used b/w film "simulation" is Kodak TRI-X 400 Pro in SFX Pro or DxO
but I always knock the "grain per pixel" back a fair amount.

--
Graham
Comments and criticism welcome
http://www.lodeway.com

On 1/8/2013 8:27 AM, Savageduck wrote: SI Mandate:
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/street_photography

Peter Newman:
…and here is my addendum:

Street-01:
OK! I guess you had to use a “street� to get to the beach. I would call
this more “eye-candy candid� than street. That is not to say I don’t
enjoy the anticipation to the hormone level changes I might experience
due to the promise of this capture. .

South Beach can be seen from the street. :-)

Street-02:
Nice capture! Now while your introduction of grain is better executed
than Bowser’s attempt, it seems a little less than subtle to me. I would
have preferred a lighter hand in that area. Though I suspect the problem
might have been the ISO 25,600 you used. Somehow I think that was you
pushing your new D800 to an extreme uncalled for at that particular
location.


Your suspicion is entirely correct. I was pushing it, however, the
lighting conditions required the high ISO. Look at my aperture and
shutter speed and you will see what I mean. Also, in keeping with the
mandate I did no post processing, except for some minor exposure
corrections. I preferred to err on the side of graininess. Yes, I
probably could have run some noise reduction but preferred not to.


Street-03:
Much better, but still a little noisy in the face. I like this shot.
I know you have this thing for high ISO, but just because your camera is
capable of capturing images at those high ISO levels doesn’t mean you
should push it all the time. The two B&W images you submitted would
have, in my opinion, been far better at a lower ISO.


See above, and you will notice that I could not have run a much lower ISO.

Besides, it has always been in my nature to push the limits.

-- PeterN


--
PeterN

On 2013-01-08 11:29:06 -0800, Peter said:

On 1/8/2013 8:27 AM, Savageduck wrote: SI Mandate:
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/street_photography

Peter Newman:
…and here is my addendum:

Street-01:
OK! I guess you had to use a “street� to get to the beach. I would call
this more “eye-candy candid� than street. That is not to say I don’t
enjoy the anticipation to the hormone level changes I might experience
due to the promise of this capture. .

South Beach can be seen from the street. :-)

Street-02:
Nice capture! Now while your introduction of grain is better executed
than Bowser’s attempt, it seems a little less than subtle to me. I would
have preferred a lighter hand in that area. Though I suspect the problem
might have been the ISO 25,600 you used. Somehow I think that was you
pushing your new D800 to an extreme uncalled for at that particular
location.


Your suspicion is entirely correct. I was pushing it, however, the
lighting conditions required the high ISO. Look at my aperture and
shutter speed and you will see what I mean. Also, in keeping with the
mandate I did no post processing, except for some minor exposure
corrections. I preferred to err on the side of graininess. Yes, I
probably could have run some noise reduction but preferred not to.


Street-03:
Much better, but still a little noisy in the face. I like this shot.
I know you have this thing for high ISO, but just because your camera is
capable of capturing images at those high ISO levels doesn’t mean you
should push it all the time. The two B&W images you submitted would
have, in my opinion, been far better at a lower ISO.


See above, and you will notice that I could not have run a much lower ISO.

You are just going with a rationalization there. I am sure that you
would have been able to get away with a less noisy image at a lower
ISO. Dare I say it, some might have done just fine at ISO 800 or 1600

Anyway they are your images, and my opinion not quite matching.

Besides, it has always been in my nature to push the limits.

-- PeterN

Oh! How did we ever cope in the days of marginal performance at ISO 1600?

Pushing at ISO 25,600 was just you scratching an itch to test the
limits of the D800. Admittedly I was not there, but I suspect that you
could have done pretty well in that available light at ISO 800, or 1600
with your old D300.

I hold that the noise/grain has been applied with a too heavy hand, and
that pushing your D800 to the limit was not necessary.
You just can't resist playing with those BIG ISO numbers. ;-)

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 05:27:48 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

SI Mandate: http://www.pbase.com/shootin/street_photography

‘Duck comments:
It would have been nice to have a few more contributors for “Street
Photography” considering the extra time permitted. I must confess to
having left things to the last minute myself.

Bowser:
First I am going to address each of your shots and then a general
observation regarding your particular process.

Street-01:
Nice capture of a clean up on the plaza, with the sweeper dealing with
what must be a New England chill with his turned-up collar.
Street-02:
Loading up at the market. All involved seem to be oblivious of your
camera, as it should be for good street photography.
Street-03:
Good street shot, but I can’t help but suspect your subject’s reaction
or vocalization was due to the camera in your hands aimed at him.

Agreed, it sure does look like that, but it was not. He was
pontificating about the end of the world, and a WIDE variety of other
subjects and I shot him while walking past. He was very entertaining,
but I didn't invite him for dinner. :-)

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 05:27:48 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:
: SI Mandate: http://www.pbase.com/shootin/street_photography
:
: ‘Duck comments:
: It would have been nice to have a few more contributors for “Street
: Photography” considering the extra time permitted. I must confess to
: having left things to the last minute myself.
:
: Bowser:
: First I am going to address each of your shots and then a general
: observation regarding your particular process.
:
: Street-01:
: Nice capture of a clean up on the plaza, with the sweeper dealing with
: what must be a New England chill with his turned-up collar.
: Street-02:
: Loading up at the market. All involved seem to be oblivious of your
: camera, as it should be for good street photography.
: Street-03:
: Good street shot, but I can’t help but suspect your subject’s reaction
: or vocalization was due to the camera in your hands aimed at him.
:
: Now, regarding my feelings regarding your post processing. Your attempt
: to demonstrate, or create a B&W film grain effect was just terrible.
: What you succeeded in doing was introducing color noise, which to my
: eye is not a B&W film emulation. The color noise becomes a distraction
: to what would otherwise be good and thoughtful street photographs.
: I know that you are using software which might attack the effect
: differently to the way others here, myself included might go about
: adding grain. I just feel that this time your technique failed.

My recollection of the film days is that we didn't see grain as a good thing.
You had to tolerate some level of it in low-light shots; but if you had a
choice between grain and blur, you might well opt for the latter. Indeed, I
thought we used faster film not because it was grainier, but because it
wasn't, the alternative being to overdevelop a slower film, which could make
the picture even more grainy. In any case, I can't conceive of a situation in
which I'd deliberately make a picture grainier.

: Rob:
: Street-01:
: Nice capture of a street artisan at work. He is engaged in his task
: oblivious to all around him. Well done.
: Street-02:
: Not quite what I think of as typical street photography, but a
: fascinating pattern of parked bikes none the less.
: Street-03:
: This I like. Great shot even though his improvised “no photography”
: sign might indicate your subject wouldn’t be too happy to find you
: behind him. Your toning work in post has also produced an interesting
: effect appropriate to this image.
:
: Savageduck (yours truly):
: I almost didn’t get fresh shots for this mandate, so I dragged myself
: out on Saturday morning to see who else was out and about.
: Street-01:
: A Western gent at a Paso Robles farmers market oozing an elegance and
: aloofness I just had to capture.
: Street-02:
: In San Luis Obispo we find the other side of the coin. This unfortunate
: hardly had the energy to lift his begging cup to passers-by. One can
: only wish him well for the New Year.
: Street-03:
: I came across this seated juggler as I walked back to where I had
: parked my car. He was sitting alone on that bench with no apparent
: audience, just lost in his juggling.
:
: Tony Cooper:
: Street-01:
: Nice one! Watching the artist work. Subtle and understated observation.
: Street-02:
: A break in the Sun. Nice, with a good B&W conversion.
: Street-03:
: Great shot! Apathetic resignation personified.

I think it's a mistake to read too much into the third subject's feelings; we
don't see enough of his face to make that call. But I certainly agree that
Tony's pictures are very nicely done. I don't think we have anyone else who
understands street photography as well as he does.

: DanP:
: Street-01:
: Young ladies out on some sort of spree. Nice work
:
:
: Bob Coe:
: Street-01:
: A touch of the exotic in New England. Indian street food as the subject
: of street photography. Nice!

Thanks! I took that picture (in Central Square, Cambridge) during the ad hoc
photo walk that Bowser and I took in October.

: Street-02:
: OK! Confess. You just pulled this from a project at work.

Yeah, guilty as charged. But I thought it fit the mandate.

: Certainly a shot of what one day might be a street, but not what I
: would expect as typical “street” photography.

Well, there are streets there. The site occupies the eastern quadrant of the
intersection of North Point Boulevard and Education Street (q.v.) in
Cambridge.

On the broader question of whether the photograph meets one's expectations of
street photography: Like it or not, buskers, panhandlers, and other people
down on their luck have been a reliable street photography cliché for quite a
while, and I deliberately tried to avoid that pigeonhole. My thought was that
construction workers were sufficiently different from the norm to allow me to
make my point. Somebody observed that the scene is messy. Well, construction
sites, especially in their early stages, often are. But if I had it to do over
again, I'd try to find a more interesting picture. I had intended to use one
of the pictures I took at Thanksgiving of some famously garish Christmas
decorations near my daughter's house in Pennsylvania. But I didn't have time
to set up a tripod, and I concluded that they all came out too blurry.

: Street-03:
: I’ll give you this one. Good use of available light. I have one
: question. Who was he saving the parking space for?

Me.

Actually, he's an example of a weird Massachusetts law that requires police
officers to be on scene in situations where almost any other jurisdiction in
the world would be satisfied to have a lackey with a flag. But he helped
contribute to the mood of the photo, and I believe the electric company, not
the taxpayers, had to pay for him to be there.

: Peter Newman:
: …and here is my addendum:
:
: Street-01:
: OK! I guess you had to use a “street” to get to the beach. I would call
: this more “eye-candy candid” than street. That is not to say I don’t
: enjoy the anticipation to the hormone level changes I might experience
: due to the promise of this capture. .
: Street-02:
: Nice capture! Now while your introduction of grain is better executed
: than Bowser’s attempt, it seems a little less than subtle to me. I
: would have preferred a lighter hand in that area. Though I suspect the
: problem might have been the ISO 25,600 you used. Somehow I think that
: was you pushing your new D800 to an extreme uncalled for at that
: particular location.
: Street-03:
: Much better, but still a little noisy in the face. I like this shot.
: I know you have this thing for high ISO, but just because your camera
: is capable of capturing images at those high ISO levels doesn’t mean
: you should push it all the time. The two B&W images you submitted would
: have, in my opinion, been far better at a lower ISO.
:
:
: Thanks to all who found the time to play.
: Let’s just hope the new mandate will bring in many more contributors
: next time around.

Martha regrets her failure to contribute this time. She had intended to, but
points out that the streets are usually pretty boring out here in the 'burbs.

Bob

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:49:27 -0500, Robert Coe wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 05:27:48 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:
: SI Mandate: http://www.pbase.com/shootin/street_photography
:
: ‘Duck comments:
: It would have been nice to have a few more contributors for “Street
: Photography” considering the extra time permitted. I must confess to
: having left things to the last minute myself.
:
: Bowser:
: First I am going to address each of your shots and then a general
: observation regarding your particular process.
:
: Street-01:
: Nice capture of a clean up on the plaza, with the sweeper dealing with
: what must be a New England chill with his turned-up collar.
: Street-02:
: Loading up at the market. All involved seem to be oblivious of your
: camera, as it should be for good street photography.
: Street-03:
: Good street shot, but I can’t help but suspect your subject’s reaction
: or vocalization was due to the camera in your hands aimed at him.
:
: Now, regarding my feelings regarding your post processing. Your attempt
: to demonstrate, or create a B&W film grain effect was just terrible.
: What you succeeded in doing was introducing color noise, which to my
: eye is not a B&W film emulation. The color noise becomes a distraction
: to what would otherwise be good and thoughtful street photographs.
: I know that you are using software which might attack the effect
: differently to the way others here, myself included might go about
: adding grain. I just feel that this time your technique failed.

My recollection of the film days is that we didn't see grain as a good thing.
You had to tolerate some level of it in low-light shots; but if you had a
choice between grain and blur, you might well opt for the latter. Indeed, I
thought we used faster film not because it was grainier, but because it
wasn't, the alternative being to overdevelop a slower film, which could make
the picture even more grainy. In any case, I can't conceive of a situation in
which I'd deliberately make a picture grainier.

I did shoot some films for the grainy look, and did actually push
Tri-X in order to achieve that look. Used properly, it can add a
"look" to a photo that might be pretty dull, otherwise. All a matter
of taste, of course. As the paragraph preceding your aptly
demonstrates. Maybe I'll do better on the next mandate, which is
coming soon (today).