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CF dying?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 22nd 09, 03:48 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ron Hunter
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Posts: 4,064
Default CF dying?

Jürgen Exner wrote:
"David J Taylor"
wrote:
David J. Littleboy wrote:
"Alfred Molon" wrote:

Seems more and more DSLR manufacturers are switching to SD cards...

SD has been winning for the last several years, David. I get the
impression that CF is now a niche product - restricted to higher end,
so-called "professional" DSLRs.


On the other hand the SD consortium made some other very foolish design
decisions. Remember that SD is limited to 2GB and SDHC to 32GB.
As card capacity is quickly approaching that limit we are in for another
round of "HELP, my card reader can't read my SD card", just 4 years
after the previous war of confusion.

The brand new SDXC finally has some leeway with 2TB (maybe they got
smart finally?), but by spec it uses the proprietary exFAT, which means
you need to run a new Windows if you want to read what your camera
wrote. Maybe there will be a new exFAT drivers for Windows XP, maybe
ther won't. Mac users will probably be fine, too, because for sure Apple
is going to licence exFAT. But users of older OS's or free OS's will be
left in the dark unless someone manages to illegally reverse engineer
the exFAT format.

CF didn't and doesn't have those problems. It is 6 years older than SD
(CF was introduced in 1994) and was designed for 137GB capacity right
from the start, so the original design will be good for maybe another
3-5 years for a total live span of 20 years.

Compare that with SD, which had to be updated with a non-compatible
design change twice already after an average of just 4 years. I wonder
who is running the SD consortium. Must be marketing and sales, because
no engineer could possibly design a specification with a live limit of 4
years.

Other limitiations of SD like proprietary interface affects mostly
system designers (embedded systems, card reader manufacturers, ...) and
much less the photographing public.

jue

I don't see this as a problem. First, most photographers have no use
for SD cards larger than 2GB, let alone 32GB. SEcond, those that do can
probably afford the new cards, readers, and computers to support new
standards. I believe my camera currently has a 512 meg card, which can
store about 400 pictures. I can't even imagine needing more than the
1600 or so pictures I could put on the 2GB card my camera will support,
and my card reader will read. Certainly I wouldn't put that may images
on a single media of any type. Those with huge cameras that make huge
files can usually afford to keep up with current technology.
  #12  
Old May 22nd 09, 04:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Jürgen Exner
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Posts: 1,579
Default CF dying?

Ron Hunter wrote:
Jürgen Exner wrote:
I don't see this as a problem. First, most photographers have no use
for SD cards larger than 2GB, let alone 32GB. SEcond, those that do can
probably afford the new cards, readers, and computers to support new
standards. I believe my camera currently has a 512 meg card, which can
store about 400 pictures. I can't even imagine needing more than the
1600 or so pictures I could put on the 2GB card my camera will support,
and my card reader will read.


"Nobody will ever need more than 640k RAM"

Certainly today's capacities are more than enough for today's cameras
and camera technology.
But I cannot and will not predict what the future might bring. But who
would have imagined 10 years ago that people would use hard drives to
store feature-length and high-quality movies? Maybe in 3 years you won't
rent a cumbersome VHS tape (oh, wait, that's DVD nowadays) at
Blockbuster but instead plug your personal memory card into a machine at
your grocery store and download the latest movie while paying for your
bread and butter.

jue
  #13  
Old May 22nd 09, 04:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ray
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Posts: 2,278
Default CF dying?

On Fri, 22 May 2009 00:17:34 +0200, Alfred Molon wrote:

Seems more and more DSLR manufacturers are switching to SD cards...


As I recall, Mark Twain once wrote: "the reports of my death have been
greatly exaggerated."
  #14  
Old May 22nd 09, 04:30 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
l v
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Posts: 182
Default CF dying?

Ron Hunter wrote:
[snip]
I don't see this as a problem. First, most photographers have no use
for SD cards larger than 2GB, let alone 32GB. SEcond, those that do can
probably afford the new cards, readers, and computers to support new
standards. I believe my camera currently has a 512 meg card, which can
store about 400 pictures. I can't even imagine needing more than the
1600 or so pictures I could put on the 2GB card my camera will support,
and my card reader will read. Certainly I wouldn't put that may images
on a single media of any type. Those with huge cameras that make huge
files can usually afford to keep up with current technology.


YMMV. A 512mb card holds approx 34 - 50 shots on my camera. It's 10MB
camera and the sizes of the RAW images vary in size. A 2gb cards holds
about 136 images.

A huge camera does not necessary mean an expensive DSLR camera where the
owner has deep pockets. 10MB pxl count is no longer a huge camera.

--

Len
  #15  
Old May 22nd 09, 05:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Jürgen Exner
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Posts: 1,579
Default CF dying?

"Bertram Paul" wrote:
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
m...
Seems more and more DSLR manufacturers are switching to SD cards...


I hope they'll keep doing that. CF cards are very bad with connections.


In my opinion it's pretty much a tossup.

The pins on CF readers (they are on the reader, not the card) are
fragile, they can bent and break. On the other hand the contacts on the
card are well protected in their little wells and the pins are hidden
deep inside of the CF card slot, so that normally you can't touch them.
And that slot should(!) align the card properly, such that the card
wouldn't be able to bend any pins, either. The real problem is dirt or
foreign objects in the little connectors on the card.

The open contact surfaces on an SD card are robust and virtually
undestructable. But on the other hand they are completely open and
because of the small size of the cards you pretty much cannot avoid
touching and thus contaminating them. And while you can clean the
contacts on the card there is no way telling how much of the dirt rubs
up onto the contacts in the reader and those you cannot clean.

Therefore I think neither is the perfect solution.

jue
  #16  
Old May 22nd 09, 05:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mike S.
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Posts: 36
Default CF dying?


In article ,
Jürgen Exner wrote:
"David J Taylor"
wrote:
David J. Littleboy wrote:
"Alfred Molon" wrote:

Seems more and more DSLR manufacturers are switching to SD cards...


SD has been winning for the last several years, David. I get the
impression that CF is now a niche product - restricted to higher end,
so-called "professional" DSLRs.


On the other hand the SD consortium made some other very foolish design
decisions. Remember that SD is limited to 2GB and SDHC to 32GB.
As card capacity is quickly approaching that limit we are in for another
round of "HELP, my card reader can't read my SD card", just 4 years
after the previous war of confusion.

The brand new SDXC finally has some leeway with 2TB (maybe they got
smart finally?), but by spec it uses the proprietary exFAT, which means
you need to run a new Windows if you want to read what your camera
wrote. Maybe there will be a new exFAT drivers for Windows XP, maybe
ther won't. Mac users will probably be fine, too, because for sure Apple
is going to licence exFAT. But users of older OS's or free OS's will be
left in the dark unless someone manages to illegally reverse engineer
the exFAT format.


exFAT drivers for XP were relased in January as MS hotfix KB955704.



  #17  
Old May 22nd 09, 06:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil Harrington[_3_]
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Posts: 663
Default CF dying?


"Bertram Paul" wrote in message
...
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
Seems more and more DSLR manufacturers are switching to SD cards...
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site


I hope they'll keep doing that. CF cards are very bad with connections. I
had two readers of which a few pins were broken: toss and throw away.


I've seen this complaint before, but for the life of me I don't understand
how that can happen. The CF card should be precisely guided by the slot onto
the pins, and I don't see how you could make it do otherwise even if you
deliberately tried to. Unless those card readers just weren't designed or
made properly.

I still have several cameras that use CF cards (just recently bought a brand
new D200 in fact), and I've never had any problem with any of them.


  #18  
Old May 22nd 09, 06:35 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Gary Edstrom
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Posts: 136
Default CF dying?

On Fri, 22 May 2009 11:00:48 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
wrote:


"Alfred Molon" wrote:

Seems more and more DSLR manufacturers are switching to SD cards...


My first dcams were Sony (S85 and F707) which use the far superior memory
stick; I've always thought the pins that CF uses are a disaster asking to
happen. A bit of dust on the connector, and your camera needs a trip to the
mfr. I've seen lots of bent pins in that sort of connector in the past.

So maybe this is good news.

(Our CEO just bought a portable DVD player, and it has an SD card slot, so
it does seem that SD is winning.)


Bent or broken pins was also my initial worry about CF cards. However,
I am now on my 4th digital camera that uses CF cards and I have NEVER
had a broken or bent pin in 10 years with all those cameras.

Gary
  #19  
Old May 22nd 09, 08:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
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Posts: 2,591
Default CF dying?

In article , Thomas T. Veldhouse
says...

I have been using the same reader for several years without ANY problem and
with two different cameras [Nikon D70 and Nikon D200]. I have never had a
problem with pins in the camera or in the reader and never had a problem with
the cards other than filling them up. If you have a good reader, a good
camera, and take good care [common sense care, not out of the way hassle type
care] you won't have any problem with using CF cards. Certainly, I have never
read of the likes of Art Wolfe complaining.


One of my readers does not take CF anymore because of bent pins.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #20  
Old May 22nd 09, 08:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,591
Default CF dying?

In article , Thomas T. Veldhouse
says...

That's because you shoot JPEG images. Start shooting RAW which most SLRs are
capable of and you will quickly find the limitations of a low capacity card.


Still, even if you shoot RAW it's not wise to keep thousands of shots on
a single card. If something happens to that card you might lose
thousands of shots.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
 




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