A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » Digital Photography » Digital Photography
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old May 11th 17, 11:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,854
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 17:24:40 UTC+1, android wrote:
In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

On 2017-05-10 15:28:14 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 14:03:23 UTC+1, peterN wrote:
On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN
said:
On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android said:

In article ,
nap wrote:

In article ,
PeterN wrote:
[ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much higher
shutter
speed, than my FF. [ ... ]

1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec.

I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS...

I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have 11fps
for
Ch.


The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps.

If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you will
have to
buy a D4S or D5.

There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate. With
the
D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file size.

Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card over
the CF
card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in the
D800 is slower than the CF interface.

Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would think
that
that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select the
medium
which performed best. Even then the difference between the two
isn't
going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it is
still
going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to clear.
The
4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a big
issue
in a studio, or for landscapes.


There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame rate
sport
shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The
D800/D810
while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the
buffer
just
chokes on those fat NEF files.

The question I have is, just how important is a very high frame
rate for
you?

If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher frame
rate
gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the right
position.

Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent
miracle
shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors
involved,
incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking.

I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals & birds.

I found that where the target is passing through a practical
capture, or composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport
event
for
example a 5
to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I
typically
end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a
single
frame, or perhaps two to work on.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg

When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists making a
slow
climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is just
fine, 8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg

There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars.

Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters?

Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions on
the planes and cares do not change.

However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to
change
quite often.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg


I like the first and fourth, best.

I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmqUpJMVBWY


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0


The above still applies! This is why organizations like the Goog should
be forced into accountability and to take more responsibility on that
what they publish:


yes they should stick to doing this to more recent polititions....
I;d find it difficulyt to not want to take a shot at Trump, Boris, Osborne
and perhaps Farage.


You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four
innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...assination%20S
cene%20%5BThe%20Salton%20Sea%5D%20RINNSTEINPROPHET %20RINNSTEINPROPHET%20.
jpg
--
teleportation kills

--
teleportation kills
  #52  
Old May 11th 17, 12:00 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,854
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

On Thursday, 11 May 2017 11:41:43 UTC+1, android wrote:
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 17:24:40 UTC+1, android wrote:
In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

On 2017-05-10 15:28:14 +0000, Whisky-dave
said:

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 14:03:23 UTC+1, peterN wrote:
On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN
said:
On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN
said:
On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN
said:
On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android
said:

In article ,
nap wrote:

In article ,
PeterN wrote:
[ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much
higher
shutter
speed, than my FF. [ ... ]

1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec.

I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS...

I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have
11fps
for
Ch.


The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps.

If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you
will
have to
buy a D4S or D5.

There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate.
With
the
D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file
size.

Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card
over
the CF
card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in
the
D800 is slower than the CF interface.

Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would
think
that
that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select
the
medium
which performed best. Even then the difference between the two
isn't
going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it
is
still
going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to
clear.
The
4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a
big
issue
in a studio, or for landscapes.


There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame
rate
sport
shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The
D800/D810
while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the
buffer
just
chokes on those fat NEF files.

The question I have is, just how important is a very high
frame
rate for
you?

If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher
frame
rate
gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the
right
position.

Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent
miracle
shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors
involved,
incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking.

I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals &
birds.

I found that where the target is passing through a practical
capture, or composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport
event
for
example a 5
to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I
typically
end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a
single
frame, or perhaps two to work on.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg

When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists
making a
slow
climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is
just
fine, 8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg

There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars.

Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters?

Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions
on
the planes and cares do not change.

However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to
change
quite often.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg


I like the first and fourth, best.

I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmqUpJMVBWY


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed
to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea
to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

The above still applies! This is why organizations like the Goog should
be forced into accountability and to take more responsibility on that
what they publish:

yes they should stick to doing this to more recent polititions....
I;d find it difficulyt to not want to take a shot at Trump, Boris,
Osborne
and perhaps Farage.


You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four
innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp


Yes unauthorized, so was JFK's authorized ?


I could tell you but...
--
teleportation kills
  #53  
Old May 11th 17, 05:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

On 2017-05-11 10:41:39 +0000, android said:


You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four
innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp


It could have been very different:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqwfxucmvua6qks/Farside93091.jpg


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #54  
Old May 11th 17, 06:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,854
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

In article 2017051109254489551-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

On 2017-05-11 10:41:39 +0000, android said:


You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four
innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp


It could have been very different:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqwfxucmvua6qks/Farside93091.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
--
teleportation kills
  #55  
Old May 12th 17, 12:23 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

On Thu, 11 May 2017 03:54:13 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 11 May 2017 11:41:43 UTC+1, android wrote:
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 17:24:40 UTC+1, android wrote:
In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

On 2017-05-10 15:28:14 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 14:03:23 UTC+1, peterN wrote:
On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN said:
On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN
said:
On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android said:

In article ,
nap wrote:

In article ,
PeterN wrote:
[ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much higher
shutter
speed, than my FF. [ ... ]

1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec.

I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS...

I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have 11fps
for
Ch.


The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps.

If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you will
have to
buy a D4S or D5.

There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate. With
the
D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file size.

Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card over
the CF
card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in the
D800 is slower than the CF interface.

Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would think
that
that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select the
medium
which performed best. Even then the difference between the two
isn't
going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it is
still
going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to clear.
The
4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a big
issue
in a studio, or for landscapes.


There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame rate
sport
shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The
D800/D810
while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the
buffer
just
chokes on those fat NEF files.

The question I have is, just how important is a very high frame
rate for
you?

If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher frame
rate
gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the right
position.

Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent
miracle
shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors
involved,
incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking.

I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals & birds.

I found that where the target is passing through a practical
capture, or composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport
event
for
example a 5
to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I
typically
end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a
single
frame, or perhaps two to work on.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg

When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists making a
slow
climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is just
fine, 8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg

There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars.

Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters?

Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions on
the planes and cares do not change.

However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to
change
quite often.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg


I like the first and fourth, best.

I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmqUpJMVBWY


I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to
really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera.

If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat
disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to
a different level.
Bird lovers should not watch.
https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0

The above still applies! This is why organizations like the Goog should
be forced into accountability and to take more responsibility on that
what they publish:

yes they should stick to doing this to more recent polititions....
I;d find it difficulyt to not want to take a shot at Trump, Boris, Osborne
and perhaps Farage.


You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four
innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp


Yes unauthorized, so was JFK's authorized ?


Undoubtedly: by somebody.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #56  
Old May 12th 17, 10:56 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,854
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four
innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp

Yes unauthorized, so was JFK's authorized ?


Undoubtedly: by somebody.


Yep isn't that the differnce between murder and a medal ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8
--
teleportation kills
  #57  
Old May 12th 17, 10:47 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

Wally,

I've been on Canon crop bodies for quite awhile ... latest are a 7D
and a 7Dmk2. Was originally contemplating the 5Dmk2 in lieu of
the 7D for a housed underwater system, but passed on it due to
my parallel interest in Autofocus performance for critters, and the
scond generation 5D used the same AF as the first generation, which
had received criticism. Given how pricy the bits are for an UW system,
the 7Dmk2 hasn't yet merited replacing the 7D as the primary for that use,
although for land use long telephoto shots, it clearly is better. I was tempted
some when the 6D came out, but it's AF performance didn't appear to be as
good (reportedly) as the 7Dmk2, so that was the trade.

In any case, this UW use case merited buying an EF-S wide angle (10-22mm),
so I'm not really hurting for a Full Frame for going wide (although I do get
tempted, just because). Ditto for UW macro with a 60mm prime...overall, I'm
not really all that concerned with the prospects of adding a "single purpose" EF-S
lens here or there, as these tend to be good values, even if they're not ever going
to be sold as (or quite as good as) white "L" glass: I typically save up my money for
using it to get L glass on telephotos...currently a 70-200 f2.8 and 400 f/4 ... the latter
will stack with a 7D and 1.4x to be a handhold-able 900mm equivalent @ f/5.6....


-hh

  #58  
Old May 13th 17, 01:47 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

On 5/12/2017 5:47 PM, -hh wrote:
Wally,

I've been on Canon crop bodies for quite awhile ... latest are a 7D
and a 7Dmk2. Was originally contemplating the 5Dmk2 in lieu of
the 7D for a housed underwater system, but passed on it due to
my parallel interest in Autofocus performance for critters, and the
scond generation 5D used the same AF as the first generation, which
had received criticism. Given how pricy the bits are for an UW system,
the 7Dmk2 hasn't yet merited replacing the 7D as the primary for that use,
although for land use long telephoto shots, it clearly is better. I was tempted
some when the 6D came out, but it's AF performance didn't appear to be as
good (reportedly) as the 7Dmk2, so that was the trade.

In any case, this UW use case merited buying an EF-S wide angle (10-22mm),
so I'm not really hurting for a Full Frame for going wide (although I do get
tempted, just because). Ditto for UW macro with a 60mm prime...overall, I'm
not really all that concerned with the prospects of adding a "single purpose" EF-S
lens here or there, as these tend to be good values, even if they're not ever going
to be sold as (or quite as good as) white "L" glass: I typically save up my money for
using it to get L glass on telephotos...currently a 70-200 f2.8 and 400 f/4 ... the latter
will stack with a 7D and 1.4x to be a handhold-able 900mm equivalent @ f/5.6....


In my diving days, I used a Nikkormat in a housing with a 20mm lens, and
a housed strobe. I guess that was FF, and I had a lot of fun. For all
practical purposes there is a very little chance that I will get wet
again. I do miss that blue Ecktachrome look.


--
PeterN
  #59  
Old May 13th 17, 06:36 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Wally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

On Fri, 12 May 2017 14:47:06 -0700 (PDT), -hh
wrote:

Wally,

I've been on Canon crop bodies for quite awhile ... latest are a 7D
and a 7Dmk2. Was originally contemplating the 5Dmk2 in lieu of
the 7D for a housed underwater system, but passed on it due to
my parallel interest in Autofocus performance for critters, and the
scond generation 5D used the same AF as the first generation, which
had received criticism. Given how pricy the bits are for an UW system,
the 7Dmk2 hasn't yet merited replacing the 7D as the primary for that use,
although for land use long telephoto shots, it clearly is better. I was tempted
some when the 6D came out, but it's AF performance didn't appear to be as
good (reportedly) as the 7Dmk2, so that was the trade.

In any case, this UW use case merited buying an EF-S wide angle (10-22mm),
so I'm not really hurting for a Full Frame for going wide (although I do get
tempted, just because). Ditto for UW macro with a 60mm prime...overall, I'm
not really all that concerned with the prospects of adding a "single purpose" EF-S
lens here or there, as these tend to be good values, even if they're not ever going
to be sold as (or quite as good as) white "L" glass: I typically save up my money for
using it to get L glass on telephotos...currently a 70-200 f2.8 and 400 f/4 ... the latter
will stack with a 7D and 1.4x to be a handhold-able 900mm equivalent @ f/5.6....


-hh


Ah yes, very good.

L means nothing to me. Everybody wants L glass, because L is the best,
cannot be surpassed. If you know nothing about lenses, just go into
the store and tell them you want an L lens.

The 24-105mm L lenses are crap. But the MPE-65mm and 400 DO II are not
L, and are very fine lenses.
  #60  
Old May 13th 17, 01:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?

PeterN wrote:
In my diving days, I used a Nikkormat in a housing with a 20mm lens, and

a housed strobe.

IIRC, the Nikonos V was circa 1977 (40th anniversary this year?), so stuff
earlier than that is really quite ... vintage!

I guess that was FF, and I had a lot of fun. For all

practical purposes there is a very little chance that I will get wet
again. I do miss that blue Ecktachrome look.

Yes, 35mm film would've considered FF. Coincidentally, a guy on the
boat just yesterday had an old Nikonos V with the Nikkor 15mm and the
(Replacemeant for the SB-103) SB-105 strobe...he thinks he got a nice
shot of a fat blacktip...mine came out a bit too dark/blue, as the modern
digital stuff isn't as condusive to default settings (particularly focus),
which can/does result in shutter AF lag.

And you're right about the Ecktachrome "look": sure, in theory it
should be able to be duplicated, but that's not necessarily a trvial task.
Doubly so for the specialty UW Ecktachrome that Kodak made for a few
years, where one had to add a filter to your strobe.

And sunbursts are still not as good/easy with digital vs film, as the (non)linearity
aspects of the two are *quite* different...and not something all that recoverable in post.

-hh


--
PeterN
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.