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Help to decide a lens or two.



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 27th 06, 07:45 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Help to decide a lens or two.

Hi all,
After months of reading reviews and such - I decided to buy a Canon
EOS350D/Digital Rebel XT body. As shown in dpreview, I found the
cropped-out image details in higher ISOs better compared to other
available alternatives.
Now, I do not have enough budget to buy L series lenses. I can spend
upto $400, to which I have found two options.
1. Tamron AF 18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO -
have read lots of good review about this one.
2. Canon 18-55/3.5-5.6 EF-S USM EOS + Canon 55-200/4.5-5.6 EF II USM -
default option.
Can you please suggest which one is better? Or anything else? I am an
enthusiastic beginner who likes to carry the camera and take candid
street photographs, cityscapes and landscapes.

Thanks in advance.
Steve.

  #3  
Old May 27th 06, 12:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Default Help to decide a lens or two.

Get the Canon 28mm f/1.8 prime. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

You're looking at some zoom lenses that all have rather sketchy
reputations. Even if the Tamron lens is good "for what it is," what it
is involves a great deal of sacrifice. 6.3 is ridiculously slow, but
even 3.5 is coming near to the limit of even being considered
"all-purpose."

You're an enthusiastic beginner, so trust me when I say that you should
begin as most "enthusiastic beginners" have historically: with a fast
normal prime. You may think a prime lens would be limiting, but in
reality it will limit you far less than a slow lens will. 28mm for the
Rebel makes for a slightly-wide normal lens, literally ideal for street
photography, and useful in landscape applications as well. It is fast
and has quick and accurate USM and full-time manual focusing
capabilities. I had three superb lenses, including some L glass, but
since buying the 28/1.8 a few months back, it has been rare that I've
used anything else. It is fast and light and is perfect to just walk
around town with.

Most importantly, it will force you to make decisions about what you
like to shoot and how you like to shoot. Right now, you likely don't
really know. And though it might seem logical to allow yourself "every"
opportunity by buying zooms, in reality you'll become a better
photographer and learn what you need to get in the future by starting
out with a nice normal and determining where you find that to be
lacking.

I shot for over a year with my first camera and the ridiculous slow
superzoom that I bought for it, despite the recommendations of others.
But I didn't have any "great" photographs until I invested in a fast
50mm prime. You know how I used that superzoom? At its widest, or at
its longest. Now when I shoot with a zoom, I'm picking numerous focal
lengths, not just the extremes. And I'm picking them because now,
finally, I understand what they mean and how they affect my work.

Do yourself a favor and grow into a zoom (or not... primes are great).
Start with a normal prime.

Will

PS: If this is seeming like bad medicine, look into the 35mm f/2.0,
because it will give you similar results (though no USM and lesser
optics) and it is cheap. But give yourself the option of something
normalish and fast (and light), because you'll learn more and be able
to do more.

  #4  
Old May 27th 06, 04:28 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Posts: n/a
Default Help to decide a lens or two.

wrote:

Get the Canon 28mm f/1.8 prime. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

You're looking at some zoom lenses that all have rather sketchy
reputations. Even if the Tamron lens is good "for what it is," what it
is involves a great deal of sacrifice. 6.3 is ridiculously slow, but
even 3.5 is coming near to the limit of even being considered
"all-purpose."

You're an enthusiastic beginner, so trust me when I say that you should
begin as most "enthusiastic beginners" have historically: with a fast
normal prime. You may think a prime lens would be limiting, but in
reality it will limit you far less than a slow lens will. 28mm for the
Rebel makes for a slightly-wide normal lens, literally ideal for street
photography, and useful in landscape applications as well. It is fast
and has quick and accurate USM and full-time manual focusing
capabilities. I had three superb lenses, including some L glass, but
since buying the 28/1.8 a few months back, it has been rare that I've
used anything else. It is fast and light and is perfect to just walk
around town with.

Most importantly, it will force you to make decisions about what you
like to shoot and how you like to shoot. Right now, you likely don't
really know. And though it might seem logical to allow yourself "every"
opportunity by buying zooms, in reality you'll become a better
photographer and learn what you need to get in the future by starting
out with a nice normal and determining where you find that to be
lacking.

I shot for over a year with my first camera and the ridiculous slow
superzoom that I bought for it, despite the recommendations of others.
But I didn't have any "great" photographs until I invested in a fast
50mm prime. You know how I used that superzoom? At its widest, or at
its longest. Now when I shoot with a zoom, I'm picking numerous focal
lengths, not just the extremes. And I'm picking them because now,
finally, I understand what they mean and how they affect my work.

Do yourself a favor and grow into a zoom (or not... primes are great).
Start with a normal prime.

Will

PS: If this is seeming like bad medicine, look into the 35mm f/2.0,
because it will give you similar results (though no USM and lesser
optics) and it is cheap. But give yourself the option of something
normalish and fast (and light), because you'll learn more and be able
to do more.


In general I agree. Another thing to look at with zooms
and especially 3rd party zooms is minimum focus distance.
Often 3rd party can be good quality for zooms, but the
minimum focus distance is reduced. I had some sigma
lenses (decade or so ago) that were pretty sharp, but
I was continually frustrated by the minimum focus distance.
They are cheaper because something had to be compromised.

As to fast primes, do you really need f/1.8 or f/2? Optically
wide angles are not that sharp wide open, so unless you are
shooting in very low light or have a very shallow depth
of field situation, you would stop down for better quality
anyway.

The canon 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8 and 50mm f/1.8 are good lenses
at very low cost. Use your kit lens zoom when you want a zoom,
and the primes when you want quality. Personally, I use
a 28-135 mm IS zoom, 24mm f/2.8, 28mm f/2.8, 50 mm f/1.8 II,
and longer lenses.

Digital cameras require sharper lenses: the spatial resolution
of a digital rebel sensor is similar to the finest grained color
slide films, so using good lenses will make a difference.

Roger
Photos at:
http://www.clarkvision.com
  #5  
Old May 27th 06, 05:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Posts: n/a
Default Help to decide a lens or two.

I have the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens. I leave it on my Camera
as a general purpose lens. It seems to do the job for my needs.

You'll want to decide what area of photography you want to focus on (if you
haven't already, and excuse the pun). If you like close up photography, then
spend the money on a good macro lens. If you like to shoot animals in the
wild, then go for a good telephoto.



wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all,
After months of reading reviews and such - I decided to buy a Canon
EOS350D/Digital Rebel XT body. As shown in dpreview, I found the
cropped-out image details in higher ISOs better compared to other
available alternatives.
Now, I do not have enough budget to buy L series lenses. I can spend
upto $400, to which I have found two options.
1. Tamron AF 18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO -
have read lots of good review about this one.
2. Canon 18-55/3.5-5.6 EF-S USM EOS + Canon 55-200/4.5-5.6 EF II USM -
default option.
Can you please suggest which one is better? Or anything else? I am an
enthusiastic beginner who likes to carry the camera and take candid
street photographs, cityscapes and landscapes.

Thanks in advance.
Steve.



  #6  
Old May 27th 06, 10:36 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Posts: n/a
Default Help to decide a lens or two.

"Dave" wrote in message
om...
I have the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens. I leave it on my
Camera as a general purpose lens. It seems to do the job for my needs.


Would you mind posting a picture of this lens? I'd love to see it. At this
end of the world, Canon doesn't include IS, and USM is a fairly expensive
option for the 18-55mm, more than doubling the price. Where did you buy
yours?


  #7  
Old May 28th 06, 06:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Posts: n/a
Default Help to decide a lens or two.

default wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
om...

I have the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens. I leave it on my
Camera as a general purpose lens. It seems to do the job for my needs.



Would you mind posting a picture of this lens? I'd love to see it. At this
end of the world, Canon doesn't include IS, and USM is a fairly expensive
option for the 18-55mm, more than doubling the price. Where did you buy
yours?



I assume he means the newer 17-55, I think these are all the EF-Ss:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...s-Reviews.aspx

At least in this part of the world?

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
  #8  
Old May 29th 06, 03:33 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Posts: n/a
Default Help to decide a lens or two.

Thanks for your comments, I am currently looking at replacements for
the kit lens on my 350D and your views are very interesting.

I had a look at the results on photozone.de for the EF 28mm f/1.8 USM
and the performance isn't that great for a prime. Do you agree with
the test results with your work in real life?

I am currently leaning towards the EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - according
to the test results it's razor sharp, with a fairly useful focal range
and a reasonable price. The major failing is the CA's but they can be
fixed in PS. Maybe this is a possibility for the OP also, however if
anyone has used this lens maybe they could post their experiences.

  #9  
Old May 29th 06, 04:48 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help to decide a lens or two.

wrote:

Get the Canon 28mm f/1.8 prime. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.


This is a good idea. I started with a 28-200 f/3.5-5.6 & was frustrated
to not be getting the best quality, especially on the long end. I agree
with Roger as well that f/1.8 isn't crucial but 2.8 is a world different
than 3.5 or 6. And my first thought with your described shooting intents
is that you don't need a long telephoto. AND a fixed normal lens is
small so it's easy to carry around and discrete for street shooting. AND
you mentioned high ISO which means low light and a faster lens gets you
better low light performance. AND it gives you a brighter viewfinder so
you can really control what you are doing. AND it'll let you really play
with and learn about depth of field because it lets you blur out the
background for portraits which is much harder to do on a slow cheap
zoom. That's not possible on a P&S pocket camera either so it's
something you should be enjoying. Another thing I didn't expect when I
got a nice fast fixed lens is the colors and contrast are really great.
It makes my old 28-200 shots look muddy and is even noticeably better
than a really nice expensive long telephoto zoom I got in between.
Things just sparkle & gleam in that baby. AND with the ability to blur
the background, the bokeh quality matters more; that's another thing
that can really mess up shots and another hidden cut corner that you
miss out on. AND many of those wide fixed lenses will focus quite close
up for 'macro' work.

You're looking at some zoom lenses that all have rather sketchy
reputations. Even if the Tamron lens is good "for what it is," what it
is involves a great deal of sacrifice. 6.3 is ridiculously slow, but
even 3.5 is coming near to the limit of even being considered
"all-purpose."

You're an enthusiastic beginner, so trust me when I say that you should
begin as most "enthusiastic beginners" have historically: with a fast
normal prime. You may think a prime lens would be limiting, but in
reality it will limit you far less than a slow lens will. 28mm for the
Rebel makes for a slightly-wide normal lens, literally ideal for street
photography, and useful in landscape applications as well. It is fast
and has quick and accurate USM and full-time manual focusing
capabilities. I had three superb lenses, including some L glass, but
since buying the 28/1.8 a few months back, it has been rare that I've
used anything else. It is fast and light and is perfect to just walk
around town with.

Most importantly, it will force you to make decisions about what you
like to shoot and how you like to shoot. Right now, you likely don't
really know. And though it might seem logical to allow yourself "every"
opportunity by buying zooms, in reality you'll become a better
photographer and learn what you need to get in the future by starting
out with a nice normal and determining where you find that to be
lacking.

I shot for over a year with my first camera and the ridiculous slow
superzoom that I bought for it, despite the recommendations of others.
But I didn't have any "great" photographs until I invested in a fast
50mm prime. You know how I used that superzoom? At its widest, or at
its longest. Now when I shoot with a zoom, I'm picking numerous focal
lengths, not just the extremes. And I'm picking them because now,
finally, I understand what they mean and how they affect my work.

Do yourself a favor and grow into a zoom (or not... primes are great).
Start with a normal prime.

Will

PS: If this is seeming like bad medicine, look into the 35mm f/2.0,
because it will give you similar results (though no USM and lesser
optics) and it is cheap. But give yourself the option of something
normalish and fast (and light), because you'll learn more and be able
to do more.

  #10  
Old May 31st 06, 02:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
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Posts: n/a
Default Help to decide a lens or two.

Well if the ultimate resolution is what you want, wait until this is
developed for optical wavelengths:
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v85/i18/p3966_1
(lots of more work on this by the same author and collaborators on the
arxiv).

 




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