Film X Digital

On 2009-01-23 03:19:25 -0800, Bob Williams said:

Duram wrote:

Now I think officially film is death, look
http://www.robertphotoblog.com/2009/...esident-obama/
and download the 14mb Obama's portrait see EXIF data.
http://change.gov/page/-/officialportrait.jpg

Why use film if digital works very fine and can be copied all over the
world in seconds without loss.


IMHO, the official portrait is technically not very good.
The DOF is so shallow that the poor guy's right ear is a blur.
So are the lapels and shoulders of his coat.
The left side of Obama's face is way too dark.
That type of lighting may be fine for Caucasian skin but it darkens
brown skin too much.
I know that these things are subjective, but that is my take on it.
Bob Williams
Also why use a 21MP camera and then post a 5MP image?

The lighting is okay, if bland. I think the white balance is a little
on the blue side. As for the rest, yeah. These official portraits get
blown up to sizes measured in feet. Why 5MP?

Well, if Pete Souza is smart enough to get the White House job, he is
smart enough to figure it out, eventually.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 2009-01-22 14:41:23 -0800, "Duram" said:


Now I think officially film is death, look
http://www.robertphotoblog.com/2009/...esident-obama/
and download the 14mb Obama's portrait see EXIF data.
http://change.gov/page/-/officialportrait.jpg

Why use film if digital works very fine and can be copied all over the
world in seconds without loss.

Film is not necessarily more expensive and less reproducible than
digital. There are a lot of hidden costs with digital. Film also
handles blown highlights better than digital.

I hate this kind of portraiture, anyway, even while I recognize that it
is necessary. But it says nothing about the man.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Bob Williams wrote:
Spam This wrote:
"Bob Williams" wrote in message
...
Duram wrote:


Can you prove this claim?
Film's days are numbered......In years, not decades.
Kodak doesn't even sell 35 mm film anymore.
Can Fuji be very far behind?
Kodak's website lists all sorts of film, 35mm, 120 and other sizes. Fuji is
also showing a good selection of film,.

Eventually shareholders will question their ROI on film production, but as
someone suggests it will become a small niche market for smaller European
makers like Adox et al.



Perhaps the film for sale today is existing stock, manufactured before
Kodak announced their intention to get out of the 35mm consumer film
business.
I do not see it for sale at Drug stores or Supermarkets in the US.
Here is a Quote from Wikipedia:

"Kodak's shift in focus to digital imaging has led to it dropping all
but one incarnation of what is perhaps the most famous film of all time,
Kodachrome, which is now only available in ISO 64 35mm slide format."

I am sure there is a lot of film stock still out there in stores. If
you product is flying out of the stores as fast as you can make it, you
DON'T stop making it.

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
...
"Duram" wrote in message
...

Now I think officially film is death, look
http://www.robertphotoblog.com/2009/...esident-obama/
and download the 14mb Obama's portrait see EXIF data.
http://change.gov/page/-/officialportrait.jpg

Why use film if digital works very fine and can be copied all over the
world in seconds without loss.


Film is easier for non tech people and also familiar to them and what they
have always been used to. Load the film, take the photos, take the film
in to be processed, get photos and negs back.

I must admit, I miss film. Especially the anticipation of getting your
photos back and looking through them for the first time. That's
priceless. However, I don't miss loading different film for different
lighting situations and changing it every 36. You can guarantee you'll be
on 34 when something exiting happens.

Hi,

By "non tech people", I presume you are meaning "Joe Public and his Wife".
How often do you see one of them using a Film Camera? Very rarely and only
if they are heading for their Eighties.

Having said that, Film will continue to be available for very many years,
even if only to special order.

Roy G

In message , Bob Williams
writes
Spam This wrote:
"Bob Williams" wrote in message
...
Duram wrote:

Can you prove this claim?
Film's days are numbered......In years, not decades.
Kodak doesn't even sell 35 mm film anymore.
Can Fuji be very far behind?
Kodak's website lists all sorts of film, 35mm, 120 and other sizes.
Fuji is also showing a good selection of film,.
Eventually shareholders will question their ROI on film production,
but as someone suggests it will become a small niche market for
smaller European makers like Adox et al.

Perhaps the film for sale today is existing stock, manufactured before
Kodak announced their intention to get out of the 35mm consumer film
business.
I do not see it for sale at Drug stores or Supermarkets in the US.

In my local UK calumet they now stock only about 10% of the 35mm film
they used to hold. The hold a lot fewer types as well.

The 1 hour photo labs have all but gone and do a 1 week turn around as
they only do one run a week or send the film away to a central
processor.

Here is a Quote from Wikipedia:
Not the most reliable source. :-)

"Kodak's shift in focus to digital imaging has led to it dropping all
but one incarnation of what is perhaps the most famous film of all
time, Kodachrome, which is now only available in ISO 64 35mm slide
format."


--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In message , J. Clarke
writes
Bob Williams wrote:
Spam This wrote:
"Bob Williams" wrote in message
...
Duram wrote:



Can you prove this claim?
Film's days are numbered......In years, not decades.
Kodak doesn't even sell 35 mm film anymore.
Can Fuji be very far behind?

Kodak's website lists all sorts of film, 35mm, 120 and other sizes.
Fuji is also showing a good selection of film,.

Eventually shareholders will question their ROI on film production,
but as someone suggests it will become a small niche market for
smaller European makers like Adox et al.



Perhaps the film for sale today is existing stock, manufactured
before
Kodak announced their intention to get out of the 35mm consumer film
business.
I do not see it for sale at Drug stores or Supermarkets in the US.
Here is a Quote from Wikipedia:

"Kodak's shift in focus to digital imaging has led to it dropping
all
but one incarnation of what is perhaps the most famous film of all
time, Kodachrome, which is now only available in ISO 64 35mm slide
format."

You left out the sentence before that: "Kodak remains to this day the
largest supplier of photographic films in the world, for the amateur,
professional, and motion picture markets - despite heavily reducing
its professional still film ranges."

So the worlds largest supplier has heavily reduced it's ranges what are
the others doing?

You also left out the one after:
"The systematic deletion of Kodachrome products from Kodak's product
portfolio has caused a great deal of resentment from film users, who
used Kodachrome for its perceived unique look, and in many cases would
have preferred a period of notice before the film stocks were
discontinued."

In other words it is clear that they are discontuing Kodachrome, which
is only one of several brands of film sold by Kodak.

All of which they are cutting down on either the ranges or the
production of.

You are just splitting hairs and arguing against the tide just because
one wave in 7 did not reach as far as the last one.

If you have not
seen Kodak film at pharmacies and supermarkets you have not looked
very hard.

Well they are not seen much in the UK supermarkets or pharmacies.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In message , Roy G
writes

Hi,

By "non tech people", I presume you are meaning "Joe Public and his Wife".
How often do you see one of them using a Film Camera? Very rarely and only
if they are heading for their Eighties.

Quite so. Also most if not all the press photographers have moved to
digital. The majority of the ammeters seem to have moved also so who is
still using film in any numbers?


Having said that, Film will continue to be available for very many years,
even if only to special order.

I agree. The problem is it will get more expensive and fewer places will
stock it or process it. Whilst fill dark room equipment is not even
worth scrap value at the moment give it 4-8 years when 95% of it has
been scrapped what is left will regain a lot of value... possibly even
more than it's original price.

35mm film kit will be with us for a long while to come just as plate
cameras are. The only problem is the supply of film as it will only be
made in batches and unexposed film has a finite and comparatively short
shelf life


--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Chris H wrote:
In message , Bob Williams
writes
Spam This wrote:
"Bob Williams" wrote in message
...
Duram wrote:

Can you prove this claim?
Film's days are numbered......In years, not decades.
Kodak doesn't even sell 35 mm film anymore.
Can Fuji be very far behind?
Kodak's website lists all sorts of film, 35mm, 120 and other sizes.
Fuji is also showing a good selection of film,.
Eventually shareholders will question their ROI on film production,
but as someone suggests it will become a small niche market for
smaller European makers like Adox et al.

Perhaps the film for sale today is existing stock, manufactured before
Kodak announced their intention to get out of the 35mm consumer film
business.
I do not see it for sale at Drug stores or Supermarkets in the US.

In my local UK calumet they now stock only about 10% of the 35mm film
they used to hold. The hold a lot fewer types as well.

The 1 hour photo labs have all but gone and do a 1 week turn around as
they only do one run a week or send the film away to a central
processor.

Here is a Quote from Wikipedia:
Not the most reliable source. :-)

"Kodak's shift in focus to digital imaging has led to it dropping all
but one incarnation of what is perhaps the most famous film of all
time, Kodachrome, which is now only available in ISO 64 35mm slide
format."


Just about all the stores around here have 1 hr. photo processing. Most
of it is probably digital, but they still do film. When it comes time
to replace the current machines, though, I suspect they will opt for the
much cheaper machines that can only print digital photos. Then film
will be entirely 'special order', and virtually invisible to the average
photographer.

In message , Ron Hunter
writes
e most reliable source. :-)

"Kodak's shift in focus to digital imaging has led to it dropping
all but one incarnation of what is perhaps the most famous film of
all time, Kodachrome, which is now only available in ISO 64 35mm
slide format."

Just about all the stores around here

Where is "here"?

have 1 hr. photo processing. Most of it is probably digital, but they
still do film. When it comes time to replace the current machines,
though, I suspect they will opt for the much cheaper machines that can
only print digital photos.

That is what happens in the UK everywhere has the Kodak digital
printing kiosks. They still have the automatic film machines but only
run them once a week. They are starting to rationalise them and take
them out of the smaller stores and send the film to one of the larger
stores in the same area on a 1 week turn around.

Then film will be entirely 'special order', and virtually invisible
to the average photographer.

Quite so. If it is not used by the average P&S user and the Pro
news/media people also use digital then film is effectively as dead as
glass plates.

I note that most medium format cameras are now also digital so the
amount of film being used will mean that the fill producers , like
Kodak, will cut back their ranges and do fewer batch runs. The prices
will go up and only people with their won dark rooms will be able to
develop it.

Where to you get glass plates developed these days?

Digital is very new and there are still many who have not switched over
so til will be a few years yet before film is effectively dead. Say 5
years?

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2009012419222950073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2009-01-23 03:19:25 -0800, Bob Williams said:

Duram wrote:



The left side of Obama's face is way too dark.


I think the white balance is a little on the blue side.

I wonder if the voters noticed ;-)

Just snipping to make a 'racist' point ;-)