Moonset Over Zion

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:25:09 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

"me" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:


Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
blurry outline ruins it for me.


How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?


The same way you take a picture of a hummingbird, with its wings frozen,
with a 28mm f5.6 lens, without strobe.

I don't necessarily see the issue with today's sensors. At iso800 in
bright sunlight you get 1/2000s. I routinely shoot to iso1600 with my
D300.
So there is a possibility, no? 28mm, f/5.6 at 3+ ft also has
sufficient DOF. As opposed to never having enough DOF for the
original shot.

"me" wrote in message
...


I don't necessarily see the issue with today's sensors. At iso800 in
bright sunlight you get 1/2000s. I routinely shoot to iso1600 with my
D300.
So there is a possibility, no? 28mm, f/5.6 at 3+ ft also has
sufficient DOF. As opposed to never having enough DOF for the
original shot.

With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but high
contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?


--
Peter

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:16:03 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but high
contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?

I haven't shot jpgs since I originally got my D70. These days I use
Bibble to convert raw files from my D200/300. It contains a basic
version of NoiseNinja. I also have the full version of NeatImage and
can process minimally in Bibble and then use the NI filter in PS. You
might consider giving either of the free versions of NN/NI a try if
you don't care to process raw image. That said, I would guess you
would benefit from raw processing given my experience with early
morning/late evening wildlife and indoor Arena Racing.

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:16:03 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:


With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but high
contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?


BTW, you are aware that above 1600 on the D300 is nothing but pushing
1600 with additional amplification. So unless you really need it to
get the shutter speed up, you're not gaining snr.

"me" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:16:03 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but
high
contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?

I haven't shot jpgs since I originally got my D70. These days I use
Bibble to convert raw files from my D200/300. It contains a basic
version of NoiseNinja. I also have the full version of NeatImage and
can process minimally in Bibble and then use the NI filter in PS. You
might consider giving either of the free versions of NN/NI a try if
you don't care to process raw image. That said, I would guess you
would benefit from raw processing given my experience with early
morning/late evening wildlife and indoor Arena Racing.


I shoot everything in RAW and use ACR for the conversion. I tried converting
the files using CaptureNX2, but no joy. It seems that the excessive noise
only appears when there is high contrast lighting present.

--
Peter

On 10-07-23 13:41 , GMAN wrote:
In , wrote:
wrote in message
...
Taken inside Zion National Park from the bottom of the canyon.

http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_23928w.jpg

--
m-m
http://www.mhmyers.com



Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
blurry outline ruins it for me.

None of you seem happy with anyones effort unless it was "YOU" who took the
picture, then its a masterpiece. I enjoyed this photo, flaws or no flaws.

I happen to agree with Peter.

OTOH, I've never done anything like the shot in question.

With the moon enlarged that much there would be a lot of challenges due
to air currents as well as tripod (or hand) shake (even with IS/VR).

I've seen similar shots in Nat Geo, but I can't say they were much
sharper on the silhouette either.

--
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:58:25 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:
: "GMAN" wrote in message
: ...
: In article , "Peter"
: wrote:
: "M-M" wrote in message
: ...
: Taken inside Zion National Park from the bottom of the canyon.
:
: http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_23928w.jpg
:
: --
: m-m
: http://www.mhmyers.com
:
:
:
: Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
: blurry outline ruins it for me.
:
: None of you seem happy with anyones effort unless it was "YOU" who took
: the picture, then its a masterpiece. I enjoyed this photo, flaws or no
: flaws.
:
: That is neither a fair, nor true comment. With the exception of our resident
: troll, there have been many compliments and hopeful suggestions. Life is not
: a kindergarten and I am not related to the maker. If an image is submitted
: for critique and I am so inclined I will make what I hope are helpful
: suggestions. Just as when I submit an image in the SI, I hope to get honest
: comment.

GMan's comment is absolutely fair. When you say you'd prefer that the
silhouette be sharp, that's a valid criticism, even if that sharpness might,
as someone else suggested, be difficult to achieve. But when you go on to say
that such an insignificant detail "ruins" the picture, that's plain silly. Is
Rich Anderson's attitude starting to infect us all, so that nothing that isn't
perfect is acceptable?

Bob

"me" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:16:03 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:


With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but
high
contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?


BTW, you are aware that above 1600 on the D300 is nothing but pushing
1600 with additional amplification. So unless you really need it to
get the shutter speed up, you're not gaining snr.


Even at 1600 there is some noise, but that is at an acceptable level. My
habit is to use as low an ISO as possible to get the shot. I am waiting to
see if the D400 was a sensor that works like the D3s. I did not get a D3s
because of the weight and I like the DX crop factor.



--
Peter

"Robert Coe" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:58:25 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:
: "GMAN" wrote in message
: ...
: In article , "Peter"
: wrote:
: "M-M" wrote in message
:
...
: Taken inside Zion National Park from the bottom of the canyon.
:
: http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_23928w.jpg
:
: --
: m-m
: http://www.mhmyers.com
:
:
:
: Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp.
The
: blurry outline ruins it for me.
:
: None of you seem happy with anyones effort unless it was "YOU" who
took
: the picture, then its a masterpiece. I enjoyed this photo, flaws or no
: flaws.
:
: That is neither a fair, nor true comment. With the exception of our
resident
: troll, there have been many compliments and hopeful suggestions. Life is
not
: a kindergarten and I am not related to the maker. If an image is
submitted
: for critique and I am so inclined I will make what I hope are helpful
: suggestions. Just as when I submit an image in the SI, I hope to get
honest
: comment.

GMan's comment is absolutely fair. When you say you'd prefer that the
silhouette be sharp, that's a valid criticism, even if that sharpness
might,
as someone else suggested, be difficult to achieve. But when you go on to
say
that such an insignificant detail "ruins" the picture, that's plain silly.
Is
Rich Anderson's attitude starting to infect us all, so that nothing that
isn't
perfect is acceptable?


Don't you think that's a bit of a stretch comparing a suggestion on
improving an image to Rich?

Well maybe the Faust in me comes out every so often. But I try, albeit
rarely successfully, to apply that same standard to myself.
In this case I thought I was clearly referring to his comment "None of you
seem happy with anyones effort unless it was "YOU" who took the picture,
then its a masterpiece."
That statement is certainly not accurate. I certainly have commented that I
really like certain images. Likewise, others here, including you have made
highly favorable comments on images. therefore, his comment is inaccurate.

To my eye the blurry silhouette is a not a minor imperfection, but a
distraction. You certainly are free to disagree. Indeed there has even been
a practical suggestion on removing the blurry edges. I think that
expressing an opinion on a shot should not make anyone the subject of such a
ridiculous attack.

I may or may not like an image. Once I express an opinion, I have an
obligation to state my reasons. Nobody should attack me for stating my
reasons, unless I do so with some malicious purpose. Both you and I have had
our work commented upon. Frequently the comments were not rave reviews.
Indeed, if my work always got rave reviews, I would not show much more.
I would hope that we can learn from each other, so that our work improves.



--
Peter

On 2010-07-24 10:29:20 -0700, "Peter" said:

"me" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:16:03 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but high
contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?

I haven't shot jpgs since I originally got my D70. These days I use
Bibble to convert raw files from my D200/300. It contains a basic
version of NoiseNinja. I also have the full version of NeatImage and
can process minimally in Bibble and then use the NI filter in PS. You
might consider giving either of the free versions of NN/NI a try if
you don't care to process raw image. That said, I would guess you
would benefit from raw processing given my experience with early
morning/late evening wildlife and indoor Arena Racing.


I shoot everything in RAW and use ACR for the conversion. I tried
converting the files using CaptureNX2, but no joy. It seems that the
excessive noise only appears when there is high contrast lighting
present.

The Noise Reduction (when needed) in ACR 6.1.0.25 works surprisingly
well, as does ACR Sharpening, and Lens Correction using profiles.

--
Regards,

Savageduck


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