a portrait - Ellen DeGeneres

Bill Graham wrote:
wrote in message ...

big·ot·ry
   /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled[big-uh-tree] Show IPA
–noun,plural-ries.
1.
stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that
differs from one's own.

I got married once so the lady could become a citizen......Unlike many

You shouldn't admit to criminal fraud online.

--
Ray Fischer

Neil Harrington wrote:
"Russ D" wrote in message
"Neil Harrington"

"[My] own opinion" . . . and the other 187 countries that agree with me,
and
the other 40 states of the U.S. too, of course.

"If even 5 billion people are saying and believing a foolish thing, it
remains a foolish thing."

Majority opinion is never proof of any opinion being correct. If that were
true, that majority opinion is always correct, then the earth would still
be flat and the sun and planets would be revolving around the earth on the
surface of nested etherial spheres.

You really are a moron, aren't you.

No, but if I were I'd still be an order of magnitude smarter than you are.

Plonk.

Smirk. Harrington killfiles yet _another_ person for daring to show
him to be stupidly wrong.

It is a lot easier to be always right when you don't have to listen to
any evidence that shows you to be wrong.

--
Ray Fischer

Bill Graham wrote:
"David Ruether" wrote in message
"Bruce" wrote in message

A case in point is the rise
of Sarah Palin... We are in a time when a near idiot can rise to
within reach of the presidency

Please, in the interests of accuracy, less of the "near"?

8^), 8^), 8^)!
--DR

Do I think Sara Palin is smarter than Barak Obama? - No, of course not. But
she has a philosophy that believes in individual responsibility,

Crap. She believes in a philosophy of individual responsibility for
_other_ people and special priviledges for her and her friends.

and Obama
believes in expansion of the welfare state.

An outright lie. But what do you expect from an admitted criminal.

--
Ray Fischer

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:27:19 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-04-14 18:23:55 -0700, tony cooper said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:47:09 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-04-14 17:33:44 -0700, tony cooper said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:15:05 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

They
travel, for whatever reason to a State, say Florida, which has no
recognition of their union, and one of the partners is hospitalized.
The hospital can deny visitation rights to all, including the New
hampshire spouse, but immediate family.

This, of course, can be circumvented by the gay couple also entering
into a civil union and drawing up certain legal papers like cross
durable powers of attorney.

The couple shouldn't have to go this extra step, but the step is
available. From a practical standpoint, a civil union puts gay
couples on equal footing with a straight couple. From an emotional
and moral standpoint, it falls greatly short.

Only in the States which recognize such civil unions and domestic partnerships.

Otherwise they are denied the same rights as heterosexual US citizens
and married couples. They are not seen as equal under the Law
nationally.

This is not my area at all, but I would think any hospital in any
state would have to recognize a durable power of attorney.

Perhaps the civil union wouldn't be recognized, but DPA would.

Now that makes sense.

I am sure there are those who would argue, that if they were actually
married the question would never come up.

Problems of this general sort in hospitals are not limited to gays.
We keep a form magneted to the fridge that is signed by our son and
d-i-l that allows us to get medical treatment for our grandchildren
should they need it when in our care. Without it, we can't make
decisions about their care in a hospital.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:32:35 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-04-14 10:40:49 -0700, "J. Clarke" said:

On 4/14/2010 12:09 PM, David Ruether wrote:
"Neil wrote in message
...

They DO HAVE THE RIGHT, Bill. (I am getting SO tired of saying this.)

I have heard of "thick-headed people" before, but this takes the cake!
Yuh, YOU can marry anyone you want, since if you are really heterosexual
(I'm beginning to wonder...) you are likely to prefer someone of the opposite
sex (still legal in most places...;-), but a homosexual can (in most
places) still
marry only someone of the opposite sex. GOLLY, GEE, WHY DON'T I
THINK THAT SOLVES ANYTHING ***AT ALL*** FOR GAYS
WHO WISH TO MARRY!?!?! Dunderhead......

So find a priest who'll do the ceremony,

Of which religious organization, The Roman Catholic Church? A Southern
Baptist fundamentalist preacher? A good Presbyterian minister? A
Lutheran? A CofE or Episcopalian vicar/priest? Let's move into Islam,
do you know of an Imam who would accommodate this loving couple?
Perhaps an understanding Rabbi? Maybe within the Church of The Gooey
Death.

In Orlando, the Joy Metropolitan Community Church (the MCC is
considered to be a denomination) will perform a "Celebration of
(something) Ceremony. Gay marriage is not legal in Florida, but if a
ceremony is wanted, they'll perform it. The (something) is a term
I've forgotten, but I've seen reports in the newspaper of these
celebrations. JMCC is the church for gays in town.

What is unusual about JMCC is that the former pastor (now deceased)
was a pastor in Southern Baptist churches for 30 years before being
hired by JMCC. The Southern Baptists are at the forefront of the
anti-gay movement down here.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Neil Harrington wrote:
"Wilba" wrote in message
...
wrote:

The only "point" you have made Neil is you feel you should control what
other people can do with their lives because you don't share their
desires.
I think you've actually misunderstood Neil, and the above statement is
only correct in one particular instance - Neil won't allow others to do is
use the word marriage to refer to a legally sanctioned same-sex
partnership.

The problem is, he distorts and deliberately misunderstands the cogent
arguments made against him in such bizarre and perverse ways that he
appears to be a utterly irrational. For instance, he asserts that same-sex
marriage is legal in eight countries and ten states of the USA, thereby
acknowledging that same-sex marriage is a reality in our world. Then he
insists that his opinion universally invalidates all uses and definitions
of the word marriage other than his own.

guffaw!

"[My] own opinion" . . . and the other 187 countries that agree with me, and
the other 40 states of the U.S. too, of course.

ALL of us have these same "bizarre and perverse ways," evidently.

When you try to convince people that 99% of the whole world


bzzzzzz Wrong. Did you ever bother to look at the links to the voting
results when this has been voted on. Show us where 99% voted no on
this.. BTW 40 out of 50 states doesn't = 99%,

Stephanie

On 2010-04-14 19:38:50 -0700, tony cooper said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:32:35 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-04-14 10:40:49 -0700, "J. Clarke" said:

On 4/14/2010 12:09 PM, David Ruether wrote:
"Neil wrote in message
...

They DO HAVE THE RIGHT, Bill. (I am getting SO tired of saying this.)

I have heard of "thick-headed people" before, but this takes the cake!
Yuh, YOU can marry anyone you want, since if you are really heterosexual
(I'm beginning to wonder...) you are likely to prefer someone of the opposite
sex (still legal in most places...;-), but a homosexual can (in most
places) still
marry only someone of the opposite sex. GOLLY, GEE, WHY DON'T I
THINK THAT SOLVES ANYTHING ***AT ALL*** FOR GAYS
WHO WISH TO MARRY!?!?! Dunderhead......

So find a priest who'll do the ceremony,

Of which religious organization, The Roman Catholic Church? A Southern
Baptist fundamentalist preacher? A good Presbyterian minister? A
Lutheran? A CofE or Episcopalian vicar/priest? Let's move into Islam,
do you know of an Imam who would accommodate this loving couple?
Perhaps an understanding Rabbi? Maybe within the Church of The Gooey
Death.

In Orlando, the Joy Metropolitan Community Church (the MCC is
considered to be a denomination) will perform a "Celebration of
(something) Ceremony. Gay marriage is not legal in Florida, but if a
ceremony is wanted, they'll perform it. The (something) is a term
I've forgotten, but I've seen reports in the newspaper of these
celebrations. JMCC is the church for gays in town.

What is unusual about JMCC is that the former pastor (now deceased)
was a pastor in Southern Baptist churches for 30 years before being
hired by JMCC. The Southern Baptists are at the forefront of the
anti-gay movement down here.

Hell! Pay me $100 and I'll dance around them with a rattle, or two.
I'll even bless them. I'll give them a "ceremony" they will never
forget, with feathers and glitter, but as far as the Law is concerned
it means squat.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

Bill Graham wrote:

wrote in message

Interesting how the right wing fights against -gay rights- and in the
same breath talk about how people should be allowed to make their own
choices and how important FREEDOM is..

Stephanie

Don't make the mistake of throwing all conservatives into the "religious
right" bag. There are conservatives who are libertarians and not
religious nuts out there. - I happen to be one of them.


Well believe it or not, I consider myself a conservative on most issues.
But there is no way I can support what the "right wing" does. I don't
like either party. They ALL are corrupt.

Stephanie

Bruce wrote:
Wilba wrote:
wrote:

The only "point" you have made Neil is you feel you should control
what
other people can do with their lives because you don't share their
desires.

I think you've actually misunderstood Neil, and the above statement is
only
correct in one particular instance - Neil won't allow others to do is use
the word marriage to refer to a legally sanctioned same-sex partnership.

Perhaps Neil has a point. Here in the UK, same-sex unions can be
legally recognised but the word "marriage" is not allowed. They are
called "Civil Partnerships".

In what ways is that desirable, other than to avoid offending curmudgeons
who insist that the world must conform to their prejudices?

I'm very willing to pay the price of curmudgeon offence to make the world a
more compassionate place. :- )

Of course it doesn't stop the tabloid press referring to the issue as
"gay marriage", but the legal distinction is clear. It doesn't mean
that a Civil Partnership is inferior to a marriage between a man and a
woman, but it recognises that there is a difference between the two.

What's the pay-off for having that distinction?

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:06:15 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-04-14 19:38:50 -0700, tony cooper said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:32:35 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2010-04-14 10:40:49 -0700, "J. Clarke" said:

On 4/14/2010 12:09 PM, David Ruether wrote:
"Neil wrote in message
...

They DO HAVE THE RIGHT, Bill. (I am getting SO tired of saying this.)

I have heard of "thick-headed people" before, but this takes the cake!
Yuh, YOU can marry anyone you want, since if you are really heterosexual
(I'm beginning to wonder...) you are likely to prefer someone of the opposite
sex (still legal in most places...;-), but a homosexual can (in most
places) still
marry only someone of the opposite sex. GOLLY, GEE, WHY DON'T I
THINK THAT SOLVES ANYTHING ***AT ALL*** FOR GAYS
WHO WISH TO MARRY!?!?! Dunderhead......

So find a priest who'll do the ceremony,

Of which religious organization, The Roman Catholic Church? A Southern
Baptist fundamentalist preacher? A good Presbyterian minister? A
Lutheran? A CofE or Episcopalian vicar/priest? Let's move into Islam,
do you know of an Imam who would accommodate this loving couple?
Perhaps an understanding Rabbi? Maybe within the Church of The Gooey
Death.

In Orlando, the Joy Metropolitan Community Church (the MCC is
considered to be a denomination) will perform a "Celebration of
(something) Ceremony. Gay marriage is not legal in Florida, but if a
ceremony is wanted, they'll perform it. The (something) is a term
I've forgotten, but I've seen reports in the newspaper of these
celebrations. JMCC is the church for gays in town.

What is unusual about JMCC is that the former pastor (now deceased)
was a pastor in Southern Baptist churches for 30 years before being
hired by JMCC. The Southern Baptists are at the forefront of the
anti-gay movement down here.

Hell! Pay me $100 and I'll dance around them with a rattle, or two.
I'll even bless them. I'll give them a "ceremony" they will never
forget, with feathers and glitter, but as far as the Law is concerned
it means squat.

I think I did mention - above - that gay marriage is not legal in
Florida.

The concept of a Celebration Ceremony reminds me of "separate but
equal". The gays can have an expensive to-do with ushers and ring
bearers and rice and the releasing of doves just like us straights.
They can even have someone officiating wearing a backwards collar.
But separately and only equal in the eyes of those who really don't
understand what people want.

At least they can have the pleasure of spending far too much money on
the moochers at the reception just like us straight fathers.





--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida