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Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office?
Today, in California, I tried to exchange a book of 32 cent stamps for current stamps, which is something that I have been doing for decades (whenever they change the prices) at a value-for-value rate (lately I've been exchanging for "forever stamps" at the current rate). In the past, many times, I merely placed the stamps on a sheet of paper, in the presence of the clerk, thereby making them unstamped, but still valid. However, after watching me, the clerk would not allow the exchange, citing an unwritten "new regulation" that disallows this common practice. I snapped photos of the transaction, in the clear presence of everyone (there were about 3 clerks present), and there was absolutely no protest (it as a large Nikon SLR which I happened to have hanging on my neck as I was returning from an outing and stopped at the Post Office by way of errand). Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of the clerk "without permission". I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so. May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? |
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On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 02:14:30 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? I have no idea what the law is about taking the photo, but I'm pretty sure that whether anyone objects or not is irrelevent. Otherwise, I could walk into a store, take what I want, and leave. If no one objected, I'd be in the clear. |
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Jennifer Murphy wrote:
On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 02:14:30 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? I have no idea what the law is about taking the photo, but I'm pretty sure that whether anyone objects or not is irrelevent. Otherwise, I could walk into a store, take what I want, and leave. If no one objected, I'd be in the clear. So you're one of the people that claim photography will steal your soul, or at least deprive you of cash or goods? How about looking at something in a store, memorizing prices (or even writing them down!) and then buying where it is cheapest? That *does* real financial damage to all the stores where you didn't buy! There must be a law where you must buy whatever you look at in a store to protect the rights of the storekeepers everywhere! -Wolfgang |
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On 4/1/2013 6:43 AM, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
Jennifer Murphy wrote: On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 02:14:30 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? I have no idea what the law is about taking the photo, but I'm pretty sure that whether anyone objects or not is irrelevent. Otherwise, I could walk into a store, take what I want, and leave. If no one objected, I'd be in the clear. So you're one of the people that claim photography will steal your soul, or at least deprive you of cash or goods? How about looking at something in a store, memorizing prices (or even writing them down!) and then buying where it is cheapest? That *does* real financial damage to all the stores where you didn't buy! There must be a law where you must buy whatever you look at in a store to protect the rights of the storekeepers everywhere! -Wolfgang I think the internet and discount houses have pretty much made "storekeepers" obsolete. Unfortunate for the purists but nonetheless true. |
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MaxD wrote:
On 4/1/2013 6:43 AM, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: Jennifer Murphy wrote: I have no idea what the law is about taking the photo, but I'm pretty sure that whether anyone objects or not is irrelevent. Otherwise, I could walk into a store, take what I want, and leave. If no one objected, I'd be in the clear. So you're one of the people that claim photography will steal your soul, or at least deprive you of cash or goods? How about looking at something in a store, memorizing prices (or even writing them down!) and then buying where it is cheapest? That *does* real financial damage to all the stores where you didn't buy! There must be a law where you must buy whatever you look at in a store to protect the rights of the storekeepers everywhere! I think the internet and discount houses have pretty much made "storekeepers" obsolete. Unfortunate for the purists but nonetheless true. It may be unfortunate for purists that you think that, fortunately you are wrong. -Wolfgang |
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On 3/29/2013 9:14 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of the clerk "without permission". I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so. May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? Sounds like there are two issues he Your ability to exchange stamps that you've been doing, apparently, since Christ was a pup. The second is this BS with the photos. Want to have some fun AND get both questions answered? Go in to visit the O-I-C and tell him how upset you are that you may have inadvertently run afoul of some regulation that even his subordinates were not aware of. "To get this cleared up, why don't you show me the regulation that prohibits photography of this sort and while you're at it, show me the regulation that prohibits me from turning in unused postage for credit?" If/when he refuses or starts back peddling, look him in the eye and request, then demand, if necessary that he reach out and get the postal inspection service involved. If this pompous jerk is constipated, that will clear him out real fast. I've personally used this ploy when told by somebody who didn't know better that this or that could not be done when, in fact, I already knew the regulation and that it COULD be done. As soon as the Inspection service "button" was pushed, their attitude changed dramatically. Great fun! Go for it! |
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On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:47:04 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote: : On 3/29/2013 9:14 PM, Danny D. wrote: : Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? : Later, I called the Officer in Charge of that Post Office, who : indignantly said I was breaking the law by taking a picture of : the clerk "without permission". : : I must restate, it was clear as the sun shines that I was snapping : pictures, and NOBODY raised a word of protest - but - I must also : ask if there is ANY legal standing for the OIC's presumption that : I am guilty of breaking the law for doing so. : : May I ask: : Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, : is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record : the transaction? : : : : Sounds like there are two issues he : : Your ability to exchange stamps that you've been doing, apparently, : since Christ was a pup. The second is this BS with the photos. : : Want to have some fun AND get both questions answered? Go in to visit : the O-I-C and tell him how upset you are that you may have inadvertently : run afoul of some regulation that even his subordinates were not aware : of. "To get this cleared up, why don't you show me the regulation that : prohibits photography of this sort and while you're at it, show me the : regulation that prohibits me from turning in unused postage for credit?" : : If/when he refuses or starts back peddling, look him in the eye and : request, then demand, if necessary that he reach out and get the postal : inspection service involved. If this pompous jerk is constipated, that : will clear him out real fast. : : I've personally used this ploy when told by somebody who didn't know : better that this or that could not be done when, in fact, I already knew : the regulation and that it COULD be done. As soon as the Inspection : service "button" was pushed, their attitude changed dramatically. : : Great fun! Go for it! The difference between your situation and that of the OP is that you knew the legal ground you were on and the OP doesn't. Under the circumstances I'd suggest that he not conflate the two issues. I'd deal with the stamp exchange question by going to another post office and finding out what they have to say. Only when that issue was settled (and maybe not even then) would I go back to the first P.O. and deal with the photography issue. FWIW, I once photographed an event in a post office (a tribute to the late postmaster after whom the building was named), and nobody said a word. But of course I wasn't there to complain about the service at the stamp window. :^) Bob |
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"Danny D." wrote:
May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? It is private property that is open to the public. That means you can photograph to your heart's content as long as the manager or clerks do not object. They do have the option to ask you to leave if you don't stop. Not leaving would put you in violation of tresspass laws. Your described incident did not involve anyone suggesting that you leave. Therefore you do not appear to have broken any law. (In fact I do not really know if it would be legal for a postal employee to demand that you leave a Post Office because you are taking pictures. If one did that, I would consult an attorney if it was actually a problem.) -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
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On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:54:31 -0800 Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
It is private property that is open to the public. That means you can photograph to your heart's content as long as the manager or clerks do not object. They do have the option to ask you to leave if you don't stop. Not leaving would put you in violation of tresspass laws. Do you know where we can find this written down so that I can show it to the postal service? Here, for example, is a sample pic (with identities blurred): http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12561500.jpg |
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On 3/31/2013 11:46 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:54:31 -0800 Floyd L. Davidson wrote: It is private property that is open to the public. That means you can photograph to your heart's content as long as the manager or clerks do not object. They do have the option to ask you to leave if you don't stop. Not leaving would put you in violation of tresspass laws. Do you know where we can find this written down so that I can show it to the postal service? Here, for example, is a sample pic (with identities blurred): http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12561500.jpg The USPS is an independent government agency and not a private company Post offices are either federal buildings or leased space. |
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