Mirrorless .... shutter ?

On Jan 20, 2021, Alfred Molon wrote
(in s.net):

In article
.com,
says...
Electronic Shutter (ES) SS up to 1/32000 second. Good for high shutter speed, and silent shooting.

And I hear that the electronic shutter (unless it's a global
one) can't be used with very fast moving objects.

Correct.
That is the issue with the “rolling shutter� effect. That can be seen in shots of moving aircraft propellors, or helicopter rotors. That and the warping/distorting of vehicles, and the legs of athletes, or animals in fast motion.

I learned that lesson the hard way when I thought using the electronic shutter at high speed would be ideal for capturing Hummingbirds in flight. I was wrong.

Take a look at the wing tip of this Hummingbird shot using the electronic shutter of my X-E2.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9d3QSvv/0/5bfddd31/O/i-9d3QSvv.jpg

The electronic shutter is most useful for situations where you would not like to have shutter, & mirror noise. The other is in bright light situations where you can get good exposures when you don’t have, or have chosen not to use ND filters.

These days I pretty much stick to auto EF+MF and find little need for the electronic shutter.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

On 18 Jan 2021 at 20:41:00 GMT, "geoff" wrote:

I just saw somebody advertising a Nikon Z6 with a quoted shutter-count.

'Scuse my ignorance (I still prefer the idea of seeing the actual
subject rather than a screen image), but do mirrorless 'SLRs' (equiv)
still have mechanical shutters, or is the shutter simply an electronic
grab of a sensor frame scan ?

If the latter surely a shutter-count would irrelevant.

geoff

I think it'd be a reasonable proxy of how much use the camera's had, and
general wear and tear.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Jan 21, 2021, Incubus wrote
(in article ):

On 2021-01-20, wrote:
On Jan 20, 2021, Alfred Molon wrote
(in s.net):

In article
.com,
says...
Electronic Shutter (ES) SS up to 1/32000 second. Good for high shutter speed, and silent shooting.

And I hear that the electronic shutter (unless it's a global
one) can't be used with very fast moving objects.

Correct.
That is the issue with the “rolling shutter� effect. That can be seen in shots of moving aircraft propellors, or helicopter rotors. That and the warping/distorting of vehicles, and the legs of athletes, or animals in fast motion.

I learned that lesson the hard way when I thought using the electronic shutter at high speed would be ideal for capturing Hummingbirds in flight. I was wrong.

Take a look at the wing tip of this Hummingbird shot using the electronic shutter of my X-E2.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9d3QSvv/0/5bfddd31/O/i-9d3QSvv.jpg

The electronic shutter is most useful for situations where you would not like to have shutter, & mirror noise. The other is in bright light situations where you can get good exposures when you don’t have, or have chosen not to use ND filters.

What about obtaining higher X-sync speeds? I know there is High Speed Sync but
that comes with the cost of reduced power.

X-sync speeds are speed light controlled rather than camera controlled, and are usually mechanical shutter, and are usually quite low shutter speeds. For example on my X-T3 the sync speed for flash/speed light is 1/250 sec or slower, and for the X-E3 1/180sec or slower, and to use High Speed Sync the Electronic shutter, or Electronic Front Curtain shutter are not available, only the mechanical shutter.

While the Mechanical shutter of the Fuji X cameras deliver speeds up to 1/8000, and electronic shutter speeds to 1/32000, High Speed Sync is dependent on illumination intensity, and duration from the flash/speed light, and needs a slow shutter speed. This can be shown with an experiment with your own camera and a flash/speed light. Set the SS well above the optimal X-sync speed for your camera, say 1/2000 - 1/3000, take a shot and see what result you get. Without the X-sync SS set correctly slow you would be scratching your head over your result.

That is, unless you are using specialized high speed cameras usually found in labs, and industry, certainly not consumer level cameras.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

On Jan 21, 2021, Incubus wrote
(in article ):

On 2021-01-21, wrote:
On Jan 21, 2021, Incubus wrote (in ):

On 2021-01-20, wrote:
On Jan 20, 2021, Alfred Molon wrote (in
s.net):

In iganews.com,
says...
Electronic Shutter (ES) SS up to 1/32000 second. Good for high shutter
speed, and silent shooting.

And I hear that the electronic shutter (unless it's a global one) can't
be used with very fast moving objects.

Correct. That is the issue with the “rolling shutter� effect. That can be
seen in shots of moving aircraft propellors, or helicopter rotors. That
and the warping/distorting of vehicles, and the legs of athletes, or
animals in fast motion.

I learned that lesson the hard way when I thought using the electronic
shutter at high speed would be ideal for capturing Hummingbirds in flight.
I was wrong.

Take a look at the wing tip of this Hummingbird shot using the electronic
shutter of my X-E2.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9d3QSvv/0/5bfddd31/O/i-9d3QSvv.jpg

The electronic shutter is most useful for situations where you would not
like to have shutter, & mirror noise. The other is in bright light
situations where you can get good exposures when you don’t have, or have
chosen not to use ND filters.

What about obtaining higher X-sync speeds? I know there is High Speed Sync
but that comes with the cost of reduced power.

X-sync speeds are speed light controlled rather than camera controlled, and
are usually mechanical shutter, and are usually quite low shutter speeds. For
example on my X-T3 the sync speed for flash/speed light is 1/250 sec or
slower, and for the X-E3 1/180sec or slower, and to use High Speed Sync the
Electronic shutter, or Electronic Front Curtain shutter are not available,
only the mechanical shutter.

While the Mechanical shutter of the Fuji X cameras deliver speeds up to
1/8000, and electronic shutter speeds to 1/32000, High Speed Sync is
dependent on illumination intensity, and duration from the flash/speed light,
and needs a slow shutter speed. This can be shown with an experiment with
your own camera and a flash/speed light. Set the SS well above the optimal
X-sync speed for your camera, say 1/2000 - 1/3000, take a shot and see what
result you get. Without the X-sync SS set correctly slow you would be
scratching your head over your result.

That is, unless you are using specialized high speed cameras usually found in
labs, and industry, certainly not consumer level cameras.

People have successfully used electronic shutters at higher X-sync speeds than
the mechanical shutters perform without specialised equipment. On certain
Nikon cameras, it was possible to fool a speedlight into working outside its
intended specifications.

High speed sync is for higher shutter speeds than X-sync will support, the cost
being a loss of power.

While I can shoot at 1/32000 using an electronic shutter, unless I have specialized lighting, High Speed sync isn't going to do me much good, and even then, not so much.

Recently I have been tinkering with MIOPS triggers as a far better way to play with high speed capture. That has been much more fun, and well within the capability of consumer cameras.
https://www.miops.com

--
Regards,
Savageduck

On Jan 21, 2021, Incubus wrote
(in article ):

On 2021-01-21, wrote:
On Jan 21, 2021, Incubus wrote
(in article ):

On 2021-01-21, wrote:
On Jan 21, 2021, Incubus wrote (in ):

On 2021-01-20, wrote:
On Jan 20, 2021, Alfred Molon wrote (in
s.net):

In iganews.com,
says...
Electronic Shutter (ES) SS up to 1/32000 second. Good for high shutter
speed, and silent shooting.

And I hear that the electronic shutter (unless it's a global one) can't
be used with very fast moving objects.

Correct. That is the issue with the “rolling shutter� effect. That can be
seen in shots of moving aircraft propellors, or helicopter rotors. That
and the warping/distorting of vehicles, and the legs of athletes, or
animals in fast motion.

I learned that lesson the hard way when I thought using the electronic
shutter at high speed would be ideal for capturing Hummingbirds in flight.
I was wrong.

Take a look at the wing tip of this Hummingbird shot using the electronic
shutter of my X-E2.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9d3QSvv/0/5bfddd31/O/i-9d3QSvv.jpg

The electronic shutter is most useful for situations where you would not
like to have shutter, & mirror noise. The other is in bright light
situations where you can get good exposures when you don’t have, or have
chosen not to use ND filters.

What about obtaining higher X-sync speeds? I know there is High Speed Sync
but that comes with the cost of reduced power.

X-sync speeds are speed light controlled rather than camera controlled, and
are usually mechanical shutter, and are usually quite low shutter speeds. For
example on my X-T3 the sync speed for flash/speed light is 1/250 sec or
slower, and for the X-E3 1/180sec or slower, and to use High Speed Sync the
Electronic shutter, or Electronic Front Curtain shutter are not available,
only the mechanical shutter.

While the Mechanical shutter of the Fuji X cameras deliver speeds up to
1/8000, and electronic shutter speeds to 1/32000, High Speed Sync is
dependent on illumination intensity, and duration from the flash/speed light,
and needs a slow shutter speed. This can be shown with an experiment with
your own camera and a flash/speed light. Set the SS well above the optimal
X-sync speed for your camera, say 1/2000 - 1/3000, take a shot and see what
result you get. Without the X-sync SS set correctly slow you would be
scratching your head over your result.

That is, unless you are using specialized high speed cameras usually found in
labs, and industry, certainly not consumer level cameras.

People have successfully used electronic shutters at higher X-sync speeds than
the mechanical shutters perform without specialised equipment. On certain
Nikon cameras, it was possible to fool a speedlight into working outside its
intended specifications.

High speed sync is for higher shutter speeds than X-sync will support, the cost
being a loss of power.

While I can shoot at 1/32000 using an electronic shutter, unless I have specialized lighting, High Speed sync isn't going to do me much good, and even then, not so much.

1/32000 isn't a realistic use case for HSS.

Agreed! I was just going to an absurd speed to establish that it was not realistic.

Shooting portraits wide open into
the Sun with fill flash is a realistic use case.

....and again that is a circumstance where I would be using a mechanical shutter, not the electronic shutter, and the flash is going to be controlling the duration of that fill flash.

--
Regards,
Savageduck