Boycott Panasonic cameras - forced proprietary battery use in firmware

Charles E Hardwidge wrote:


I'm taking a balanced view, and that was really the point behind my comment
so there's no violent disagreement here.

I've stopped watching broadcast TV, don't read the media, and don't vote
for
similar reasons.

I think, it's important to find yourself as much as finding the shot
and, in
some ways, they can be the same thing.


You're right Charles...
Hearing every day that America is on the verge of a depression after
I've already decided to come home (from 30 years in Australia) is
disturbing enough but to learn that my home is also home to a bunch of
retirees behaving badly... bigots who stick their head in the sand and
ignore the even more frightening fact that they created the mess in the
first place is even more disturbing.

I wouldn't have know anything about it if I'd simply bought a book and
not watched TV!


--
You don't stop laughing because you grow old,
You grow old because you stop laughing!

In article ,
David J Taylor wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
[]
NEVER! DO! I! OVERREACT!

If it is based on a challenge/response it is all but impossible to
backwards engineer this.

eg: The battery hands over a class code
The camera generates a challenge (random 16 bit (or so) number)
The battery, for its "class" has to generate a correct response for
that random number.
Incorrect reply - camera tries 2 more times - then shuts off.
Correct reply - camera tries 2 more random #'s, if pass, then all is
okay.

Such can easily be done in a tiny, cheap, low power consuming chip in
the battery (or in the power reporting chip already in place).

As you say - "if". Wait and see what 3rd parties come up with.

Don't know about use by any particular camera vendors, but this sort of thing
(e.g. SHA1 authentication) is already available as an adjunct feature in
battery charge-monitor chips. In an ideal world, that'd just make the camera
warn you "this isn't one of our batteries!" (and perhaps record that
information for use by service personnel).

John
--
John DuBois KC6QKZ/AE http://www.armory.com/~spcecdt/

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
On 21-06-09 13:13, Charles E Hardwidge wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...

Which in an odd way proves my point. More suppliers are better than
fewer. As to the Sony batteries, as unfortunate as those failures were,
it was a near inevitable consequence of making Li-ion batteries -
learning
curve.

There's usually a balance between authority and society, or brands and
the
market. I note, Ray Bradbury is railing against the internet and he has a
point. The tiny bit I pay attention to isn't very good, and I get a
similar
discomfort with the traditional darkroom versus the digital darkroom.

You keep raising objections to your own progress with digital photography.
Take the Nike attitude.

Ray Bradbury is one of the brighter lights of fiction, esp. science
fiction coupled to social realities. I can see how he would see the
negatives in the internet. However, like all double edged swords, the
internet has its overwhelmingly positive side as it does its negative -
people need to focus on getting positive value from it.

A friend of mine, no wilting flower where it comes to technology,
marketing and media, has all but sworn off reading or listening to the
news. It has become to him a mind distracting repetitious blur that has
almost no bearing on his life.



One of the most clever parodies of the news media's propensity of mindless
repetition was the "Buckwheat is dead." skit on SNL:

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/82/82pstutts.phtml

--
Peter

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:58:28 -0400, "Larry Thong"
wrote:
: Robert Coe wrote:
:
: So? I carry a grudge against Americans for George Bush,
: and I **am** American.
:
: Come to think of it, so do I. And I'm a Republican.
:
: Yep, you voted for him and now I get to pay for his incompetence for the
: next 25-years. Thank God for Obama, the savior!

Rita, are you daft? I was probably that moron's most outspoken opponent in the
photography newsgroups. If you don't remember that, just ask George Kerby, who
actually did support Bush. I didn't vote for him either time, and I didn't
even vote for his father when he ran for re-election.

I'm a real Republican, not a neocon or Cheney stooge. I'm appalled at the
direction the party has taken in recent years. I voted for Obama and would do
so again in a heartbeat.

Bob

Robert Coe wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:58:28 -0400, "Larry Thong"
wrote:
: Robert Coe wrote:
:
: So? I carry a grudge against Americans for George Bush,
: and I **am** American.
:
: Come to think of it, so do I. And I'm a Republican.
:
: Yep, you voted for him and now I get to pay for his incompetence for the
: next 25-years. Thank God for Obama, the savior!

Rita, are you daft? I was probably that moron's most outspoken opponent in the
photography newsgroups. If you don't remember that, just ask George Kerby, who
actually did support Bush. I didn't vote for him either time, and I didn't
even vote for his father when he ran for re-election.

I'm a real Republican, not a neocon or Cheney stooge. I'm appalled at the
direction the party has taken in recent years.



I voted for Obama and would do
so again in a heartbeat.

You wouldn't be alone. There are many people (about 52% of the voting
public) who have displayed little respect for the office of the
president. How else can one explain Obama being elected when so little
is know about him or his ambitions.


Bob

On 22-06-09 16:13, nick c wrote:

There are many people (about 52% of the voting
public) who have displayed little respect for the office of the
president. How else can one explain Obama being elected when so little
is know about him or his ambitions.

The first insane thing is thinking that the Office of the President of
the US is special in some way. It isn't. It is an elected office.

Believing the US election system is much better than a survival of the
media fittest contest is plain silliness.

Five things killed McCain:

1) Getting off of his own message and caving to the Republican machine
in the last 3 months.
2) Palin.
3) Palin.
4) Palin.
5) Palin.


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On 21-06-09 19:49, John DuBois wrote:
In a.com,
David J wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
[]
NEVER! DO! I! OVERREACT!

If it is based on a challenge/response it is all but impossible to
backwards engineer this.

eg: The battery hands over a class code
The camera generates a challenge (random 16 bit (or so) number)
The battery, for its "class" has to generate a correct response for
that random number.
Incorrect reply - camera tries 2 more times - then shuts off.
Correct reply - camera tries 2 more random #'s, if pass, then all is
okay.

Such can easily be done in a tiny, cheap, low power consuming chip in
the battery (or in the power reporting chip already in place).
As you say - "if". Wait and see what 3rd parties come up with.

Don't know about use by any particular camera vendors, but this sort of thing
(e.g. SHA1 authentication) is already available as an adjunct feature in
battery charge-monitor chips. In an ideal world, that'd just make the camera
warn you "this isn't one of our batteries!" (and perhaps record that
information for use by service personnel).

A very reasonable compromise.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.

On 21-06-09 19:56, Peter wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message

A friend of mine, no wilting flower where it comes to technology,
marketing and media, has all but sworn off reading or listening to the
news. It has become to him a mind distracting repetitious blur that
has almost no bearing on his life.



One of the most clever parodies of the news media's propensity of
mindless repetition was the "Buckwheat is dead." skit on SNL:

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/82/82pstutts.phtml

Good script. Don't think I saw that one. Only see about 2 shows/year...

--
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-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.

On 22-06-09 11:39, John Navas wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 11:29:46 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote in
:

And the consumers of the other cameras probably don't give a damn about
the memory card source. They get one and keep it with the camera for
its life.

Many do care because they can't swap the card with other devices.

For example, I like to take pictures with my digital camera and swap the
card into my cell phone to transmit them, and the multiplicity of
formats limits my ability to do so.

A valid point, and I did think about it (in not exactly those terms),
but not an issue with most DSLR photographers. It is esp. useful to
PJ's of course, and I could see use of it for companies with tech reps
in the field needing engineering support - though for that the in-phone
camera will sometimes suffice.

Within a few years I believe it will be common for DSLR's to offload
images on the fly to a local storage device or via WiFi directly to
online storage, websites and even back to the photogs base computer.

What I'd really like to see Sony do is integrate GPS into their bodies
along with WiFi. This is such a natural (esp. as Sony make their own
GPS') that I'm surprised that at least that part hasn't been done to
date. I should be receiving a separate GPS data logger today or
tomorrow - requires processing the log to insert locations into the DNG
exif files.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
On 22-06-09 16:13, nick c wrote:

Five things killed McCain:

1) Getting off of his own message and caving to the Republican machine in
the last 3 months.
2) Palin.
3) Palin.
4) Palin.
5) Palin.

The informed consensus view in the UK is this is about right. McCain had
effectively won the campaign but threw it away. Like any other group the
Republicans will take time to accept and embrace change, and that's the
opportunity in opposition if they want to grasp it.

--
Charles E Hardwidge