B&W film developing questions

In article ,
"G.T." writes:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/7/2008 7:46 PM G.T. spake thus:

With the drums can I agitate manually or is it too inconvenient to
agitate it myself? Do I need to get a roller, too?

I'd spend the extra fifty cents and get the motor base.

I should have read this post before sending my last one. So these days
the used motor bases are quite cheap?

They're fairly cheap on eBay. On average, they probably cost more than
$0.50 (if only for shipping -- the motor base weighs more than a drum),
but the nature of eBay and the current market for darkroom equipment is
that if you're willing to wait, you can find what you want pretty cheaply
-- maybe even for $0.50. Unfortunately, eBay's not responding for me right
now so I can't check on current auctions and prices. Do a search on "drum"
in the photo section; that'll give you an idea for the current market.
(Note that there's a check box along the left of the screen to show
completed auctions, so you can tell what items actually sell for rather
than what the high bid is hours or days before the auctions end.)

It also uses a *lot* less chemistry, since you don't have to fill a
whole tray.

Yes and no. My 8x10 drum seems to work well with 70ml of chemicals. That
70ml will be close to exhausted by a single sheet, though, so it's best to
use the solution one-shot. When I use open trays, I use 1l (1000ml) of
developer in an 8x10 tray, and I typically get at least 20 8x10 prints out
of that, which works out to 50ml per print. Of course, it would be
possible to extend the life of the chemicals when using the drum -- say by
using a replenishment scheme. That adds to the hassle, though.

Ultimately I guess it depends on what's important to you and how you
prefer to work. If you want to mix up small quantities of chemistry (for
easy storage) from liquid concentrates, the low solution volumes required
by a drum might be appealing. From an economic standpoint, there's
probably not much difference, or open trays might get the nod. If you're
using a powdered developer (such as Dektol), you'll need to mix large
quantities anyhow, so the need for larger volumes to fill trays won't be
much of an issue.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

"Rod Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"G.T." writes:

"Rod Smith" wrote in message
...

Experimenting with products is fine; however, since you're just starting
out I'd like to caution you against going wild with all the films and
developers that are out there. You'll learn most quickly if you stick to
just one or two films and one developer while you learn. If you try a
new
film/developer combination with every roll or two, you won't learn how
the
two work together or be able to optimize your developing techniques.
Learn
your basic techniques first and THEN start playing with different
developers.

Basically, for good or bad, I'm using Tri-X 400 (I have also used some of
the current Arista 400 film but for film right now I'm sticking with the
Tri-X),

For future reference, Freestyle sells several different products under
their "Arista" label. You *MUST* pay attention to the specifics -- for
instance, Arista.EDU, Arista.EDU Ultra, and Arista II are all made by
different manufacturers. Many of these products have been discontinued
(mostly because of manufacturers going under, such as Agfa and Forte), so
Freestyle may not have much of some of these items left, but it's
imperative that you pay attention to this detail lest you get the wrong
developing time or provoke confusion in discussions with others.

Understood. It's Arista.EDU Ultra which I think is all they have in 120 at
this point.


and on just my 2nd developer, the Rodinal, the 4 oz bottle. I'll
finish this Rodinal up and try some Xtol. I won't be trying any other
films
until I get a feel for the differences of the Tri-X in the Accufine, the
Rodinal, and then the Xtol.

Is that reasonable?

Your first post mentioned that you'd just finished developing your first
three rolls "at home." If you've not been developing film elsewhere, going
through as many developers as you mention after just three rolls is
inadvisable; stick with ONE for a while. "A while" is rather vague, I
admit; if you need more precision, I'd say 10-20 rolls before you start
trying other things.

No, I developed 24 rolls with Accufine in class, the 3 rolls with Rodinal
are the first I've developed at home. My instructor suggested trying Xtol
next but I tend to do my own thing. It's Rodinal for now, I've been mixing
it at 25+1 but to get more rolls done with it I'll start doing 50+1 or
100+1.

Thanks,
Greg

"G.T." wrote in message
...
Ken Hart wrote:

snip
Excellent advice. I assume the roller is just a base that makes it easy
to manually roll the drum in place? Or is it motorized?

Motorized. Be advised: the drum tends to 'walk' on the base, so it can fall
off if you aren't paying attention.

I have my own easel, filters, grain checker, and a couple of trays so let
me get a list together here of the rest of the stuff I would need:

enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
safelight
paper developer
2 drums
I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
something to use for washing

The housewares (kitchen stuff) at WalMart is your friend! Various
plastic/Rubbermaid containers will work for a washing tray. You can slao get
containers for your chems. Pick up a Sharpie brand marker to label the
containers (waterproof).

print wiper
dryer?

If you are using RC papers, don't fret wiping the print. Just lay it face up
on a towel to air dry. You could also get some sort of plastic-covered wire
rack-- again the housewares department. There are numerous dryer 'machines'
on the market for RC paper-- most all work on some sort of air drying.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
G.T. wrote:
enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer

I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
timing exposure and developed by inspection.

safelight

That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
make setup and focusing easier.


It is easier to focus with the safelight off. Most enlarger timers have an
outlet for the enlarger and another outlet for the safelight. When the
enlarger is on, the safelight is off.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
with the chemicals.

Yeah, got those except for the gloves.

Gloves are for sissies.

Generalization. I don't use gloves in the black and white darkroom, but I do
use tongs-- to minimize chemical contamination.
I found out the hard way to use gloves when cleaing the color (RA4)
processor. I reached down in the color developer tank and within a day or
so, I had several nasty rashes on my arm that took weeks to clear up.
Developers basically attack the oils in the skin and for some people,
especially with dry skin issues, it can cause problems. Don't sweat it, wash
your hands and maybe use a skin moisturizer after a darkroom session.

In article , "Ken Hart"
wrote:

It is easier to focus with the safelight off.

Nominally. Most people don't project the safelight onto the easel and if
the light is bright enough to cause that kind of issue = making it hard
to focus the safe light is really to bright.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

"Pieter" wrote in message
...
I have a safelight in the enlarger area as well as one over the sink. I
set up the print and focus with the enlager lens wide open for maximim
image light. The last step before printing is to stop the enlarger lens
down to the correct stop.

I had a lens that shifted focus when stopped down.

In article , jjs wrote:

"Pieter" wrote in message
...
I have a safelight in the enlarger area as well as one over the sink. I
set up the print and focus with the enlager lens wide open for maximim
image light. The last step before printing is to stop the enlarger lens
down to the correct stop.

I had a lens that shifted focus when stopped down.

They all do to a smaller or larger amount.

I've always focused at the intended f/stop. The lens goes to f/45
typically I use f/22. With a Micromega focuser all but the tightest
grain can be seen. Since I color print also, I am fairly comfortable
with using fairly dim safe light when doing b&w printing.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

On Jan 5, 12:57*am, "Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote:

My two bits - Rodinal is one time use.

Acu-1 is the one-shot version of Acufine.

My own prediliction is to decant the 500ml container into
1 oz (30 ml) glass amber bottles. *I keep these tightly capped
and use them in succession.

I don't use any commercial stop. *I use two successive
water rinses instead.

Likely you'll find those 1 oz bottles hold 34 to 35 ml.
I don't bother with a stop because the one-shot very dilute
fixer I use does not load up with carry forward developer. Using
a Rapid fixer concentrate, 20ml should suffice for just about any
35mm or 120 film. My dilution when using A. Thiosulfate
concentrate runs 1:24; solution volume 500ml. Fresh
fix each roll, no need to rebottle or test.

The A. Thiosulfate concentrate looked to be going bad the
little I've been using it. So now I use S. Thiosulfate, film and
prints. I doubt it ever goes bad. Dan

"____" wrote in message
...
In article , jjs wrote:
I had a lens that shifted focus when stopped down.

They all do to a smaller or larger amount.

I've always focused at the intended f/stop. The lens goes to f/45
typically I use f/22. With a Micromega focuser all but the tightest
grain can be seen. Since I color print also, I am fairly comfortable
with using fairly dim safe light when doing b&w printing.

Yes. I stop to F8 at the most and focus there. I've had some astounding
results with 16x20 prints from grainy 35mm. Grain is my friend.