Sunday at Laguna Seca

On 18/08/2010 01:52, Savageduck wrote:


I got all sorts of Bugatti shots, and Lagonda shots. The main reason I
tried getting those Bugatti project car shots by going wide, was just to
capture the jaw dropping spectacle of what was there.

You'll love the "Musée de l'Automobile" in Mulhouse, France, since it
has the most extensive collection of Bugattis in the world.

http://www.collection-schlumpf.com/en/schlumpf/

and in particular:

http://www.collection-schlumpf.com/en/schlumpf/773-picture_library/?SID=773&SITE_ID=11&LANG_ID=2&IMG_CATEGORY=84
--
Bertrand

On 2010-08-17 17:29:59 -0700, Ofnuts said:

On 18/08/2010 01:52, Savageduck wrote:


I got all sorts of Bugatti shots, and Lagonda shots. The main reason I
tried getting those Bugatti project car shots by going wide, was just to
capture the jaw dropping spectacle of what was there.

You'll love the "Musée de l'Automobile" in Mulhouse, France, since it
has the most extensive collection of Bugattis in the world.

http://www.collection-schlumpf.com/en/schlumpf/

and in particular:

http://www.collection-schlumpf.com/en/schlumpf/773-picture_library/?SID=773&SITE_ID=11&LANG_ID=2&IMG_CATEGORY=84

Very

nice. Thanks for the link.

Now I have to plan for a European trip. One which include that museum,
and the Goodwood Festival of Speed.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2010-08-17 19:38:46 -0700, otter said:

On Aug 17, 3:07*pm, Savageduck wrote:
An HTML gallery of some shots from Sunday at Laguna Seca, Motorsports Reu
nion.

If you are in anyway "green" this might not be for you. ;-)

http://homepage.mac.com/co/Sites/LagunaSwH/index.html

--
Regards,

Savageduck

Very cool. I'd never seen a car with 4 front wheels before. I assume
that is for traction? Anyway, very nice pics.

Here is an up close of the Tyrrell 6 wheeler. That was an amazing car.
Way ahead of its time.
http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/_DNC5077w.jpg


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 10-08-17 16:09 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-08-17 13:07:34 -0700, Savageduck
said:

An HTML gallery of some shots from Sunday at Laguna Seca, Motorsports
Reunion.

If you are in anyway "green" this might not be for you. ;-)

http://homepage.mac.com/co/Sites/LagunaSwH/index.html

Sorry about that :-(

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/Sites/LagunaSwH/index.html

I suspect that a lot of those cars are potentially up for auction at the
upcoming Concours D'Elegance.

I love seeing these old racing cars. From an era where racing advances
trickled into production cars.

Now, in today's (that is to say the last 20 years or so) environment,
auto racing is mostly a noisy, polluting waste.

It's time for auto racing to focus on renewable energy sources so that
racing can again benefit production autos.


--
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

Alan Browne wrote:

Now, in today's (that is to say the last 20 years or so) environment,
auto racing is mostly a noisy, polluting waste.

It's time for auto racing to focus on renewable energy sources so that
racing can again benefit production autos.

Actually some of the racing technology is trickling into production cars
still. In my real life I work on software tools for automotive engine
controllers, both production and racing.

A lot of the same algorithms that were developed for race car
engines to extract performance out of the engines have been
applied to production cars to improve fuel economy. The current
F1 cars are finding ways to trade bursts of acceleration for a higher
average power rather than a higher peak power. This approach
will start to show up in production cars I would guess in 2016 or
2018.

Walter..

On 2010-08-18 06:59:00 -0700, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-08-17 16:09 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-08-17 13:07:34 -0700, Savageduck
said:

An HTML gallery of some shots from Sunday at Laguna Seca, Motorsports
Reunion.

If you are in anyway "green" this might not be for you. ;-)

http://homepage.mac.com/co/Sites/LagunaSwH/index.html

Sorry about that :-(

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/Sites/LagunaSwH/index.html

I suspect that a lot of those cars are potentially up for auction at
the upcoming Concours D'Elegance.

I love seeing these old racing cars. From an era where racing advances
trickled into production cars.

Now, in today's (that is to say the last 20 years or so) environment,
auto racing is mostly a noisy, polluting waste.

It's time for auto racing to focus on renewable energy sources so that
racing can again benefit production autos.

I guess you had to be there;


http://automotive.speedtv.com/articl...g-money-sales/



--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 10-08-18 10:25 , Walter Banks wrote:


Alan Browne wrote:

Now, in today's (that is to say the last 20 years or so) environment,
auto racing is mostly a noisy, polluting waste.

It's time for auto racing to focus on renewable energy sources so that
racing can again benefit production autos.

Actually some of the racing technology is trickling into production cars
still. In my real life I work on software tools for automotive engine
controllers, both production and racing.

A lot of the same algorithms that were developed for race car
engines to extract performance out of the engines have been
applied to production cars to improve fuel economy. The current
F1 cars are finding ways to trade bursts of acceleration for a higher
average power rather than a higher peak power. This approach
will start to show up in production cars I would guess in 2016 or
2018.

It's well beyond diminishing returns. For that matter, most "advances"
apply to the most powerful engines. When a fuel gulper improves by a
few %, little progress has been made. For that matter, in conventional
engines, auto makers have been doing things that the racing industry has
not done much about. I know that F1 is tinkering with bits and pieces
of it, but that's not where the most beneficial advances will come from,
IMO. For example they're introducing a flywheel energy store, but that
"suits" F1 (lots of accelerating and decelerating) whereas flywheels
have always been a poor suit for "regular" autos.

On the other hand, motor racing with renewables, electrics, etc. will
provide a huge base of experimentation that will result in advances in
range per unit of energy.

(Frankly the number one paying advance is to make cars as light as
possible. F=ma is still at release 1.0 and has not been updated at all).

F1 make their cars light for a reason. There has not been much of that
in the "real" automobile industry.

The only "current" big $ racing that really applies may be the Le Mans
endurance racing series (and other related series). Notably
turbo-diesel (Audi) big sweeps in the past years.

Volkswagen had a little 3 banger turbo diesel that significantly
outperformed the Prius in mileage without the benefit of an electrical
package. (It was, to be sure a smaller car). Left the market in 2005
but I'd wager it will be back. _small_ turbo'd cars get a huge energy
recovery, this suits diesel more than the lighter engine gasoline
powered cars. (Perhaps gasoline engines need to made smaller AND
slightly heavier (per litre) in order to use the turbo as much as
possible...). This pre-dates the Audi racing effort, however.

Doing some research for a friend I came upon this (I had this idea over
10 years ago [and I'm sure others did], but the huge problem was the
very high turbo rpm (beyond generator rpms [eddy current issues]) which
thingap have solved:
http://www.thingap.com/automotive/
(DL the pdf for the engine mapping). This would mean 0 load on the
alternator for most of a car trip. With careful energy management the
alternator could be removed altogether. (accounts for about 6 - 8 hp on
a typical mid/large car). Indeed, _all_ accessories could be
electrically driven (steering, braking, water pump, air conditioning) so
that the engine is not loaded with parasitic loads. Some redundancy in
those systems would be needed. And on top of all that, spare power
could be battery stored for acceleration aiding. This would suit diesel
or gasoline (and other) engines.

But don't look to racing for it.

--
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

On 10-08-18 11:13 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-08-18 06:59:00 -0700, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-08-17 16:09 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2010-08-17 13:07:34 -0700, Savageduck
said:

An HTML gallery of some shots from Sunday at Laguna Seca, Motorsports
Reunion.

If you are in anyway "green" this might not be for you. ;-)

http://homepage.mac.com/co/Sites/LagunaSwH/index.html

Sorry about that :-(

http://homepage.mac.com/lco/Sites/LagunaSwH/index.html

I suspect that a lot of those cars are potentially up for auction at
the upcoming Concours D'Elegance.

I love seeing these old racing cars. From an era where racing advances
trickled into production cars.

Now, in today's (that is to say the last 20 years or so) environment,
auto racing is mostly a noisy, polluting waste.

It's time for auto racing to focus on renewable energy sources so that
racing can again benefit production autos.

I guess you had to be there;


http://automotive.speedtv.com/articl...g-money-sales/

That's the one. I'd be terrified of driving my new toy at some of those
prices. I bet most never leave the "show garage" a la Ferris Bueller's
Day Off.

(Note: #1 son pranged the front of my car Sat. evening... repairable but
will take about 2 weeks (ins. approval, parts ordering, etc.). He was
fiddling with the CD player and didn't see the traffic ahead suddenly
slow. Attempted to change lanes and lost it. Hit another car (2
adults, 4 kids) banging in the side of it. No injuries (other driver
complained of a sore neck... (classic)).


--
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

On 2010-08-18 09:21:20 -0700, Alan Browne
said:

On 10-08-18 10:25 , Walter Banks wrote:


Alan Browne wrote:

Now, in today's (that is to say the last 20 years or so) environment,
auto racing is mostly a noisy, polluting waste.

It's time for auto racing to focus on renewable energy sources so that
racing can again benefit production autos.

Actually some of the racing technology is trickling into production cars
still. In my real life I work on software tools for automotive engine
controllers, both production and racing.

A lot of the same algorithms that were developed for race car
engines to extract performance out of the engines have been
applied to production cars to improve fuel economy. The current
F1 cars are finding ways to trade bursts of acceleration for a higher
average power rather than a higher peak power. This approach
will start to show up in production cars I would guess in 2016 or
2018.

It's well beyond diminishing returns. For that matter, most "advances"
apply to the most powerful engines. When a fuel gulper improves by a
few %, little progress has been made. For that matter, in conventional
engines, auto makers have been doing things that the racing industry
has not done much about. I know that F1 is tinkering with bits and
pieces of it, but that's not where the most beneficial advances will
come from, IMO. For example they're introducing a flywheel energy
store, but that "suits" F1 (lots of accelerating and decelerating)
whereas flywheels have always been a poor suit for "regular" autos.

On the other hand, motor racing with renewables, electrics, etc. will
provide a huge base of experimentation that will result in advances in
range per unit of energy.

(Frankly the number one paying advance is to make cars as light as
possible. F=ma is still at release 1.0 and has not been updated at
all).

F1 make their cars light for a reason. There has not been much of that
in the "real" automobile industry.

The only "current" big $ racing that really applies may be the Le Mans
endurance racing series (and other related series). Notably
turbo-diesel (Audi) big sweeps in the past years.

Volkswagen had a little 3 banger turbo diesel that significantly
outperformed the Prius in mileage without the benefit of an electrical
package. (It was, to be sure a smaller car). Left the market in 2005
but I'd wager it will be back. _small_ turbo'd cars get a huge energy
recovery, this suits diesel more than the lighter engine gasoline
powered cars. (Perhaps gasoline engines need to made smaller AND
slightly heavier (per litre) in order to use the turbo as much as
possible...). This pre-dates the Audi racing effort, however.

Doing some research for a friend I came upon this (I had this idea over
10 years ago [and I'm sure others did], but the huge problem was the
very high turbo rpm (beyond generator rpms [eddy current issues]) which
thingap have solved:
http://www.thingap.com/automotive/
(DL the pdf for the engine mapping). This would mean 0 load on the
alternator for most of a car trip. With careful energy management the
alternator could be removed altogether. (accounts for about 6 - 8 hp
on a typical mid/large car). Indeed, _all_ accessories could be
electrically driven (steering, braking, water pump, air conditioning)
so that the engine is not loaded with parasitic loads. Some redundancy
in those systems would be needed. And on top of all that, spare power
could be battery stored for acceleration aiding. This would suit
diesel or gasoline (and other) engines.

But don't look to racing for it.

Well since you brought up diesel, the current leader in diesel
development from racing is Peugeot.
Their racing program has been a winner shaming the likes of Audi,
Ferrari, Porsche, Aston-Martin, and BMW with motors such as V12 turbo
diesel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_908_HDi_FAP

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...diesel-winners


They are also racing in different classes to develop the cars for street sales.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/13/p...s-of-nurburgr/



....and that has resulted in vehicles such as their "Car of the year"
the 5008, and the recently showcased 75 MPG Peugeot 307 HDI;

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/pe...ays-20283.html



http://www.reallynatural.com/archive...75_mpg_acr.php


http://www.worldcarfans.com/10708293...ybrid-for-2010

There is your Prius beater.

Naturally these are not available in the US.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

otter wrote:
On Aug 17, 3:07 pm, Savageduck
wrote:
An HTML gallery of some shots from Sunday at Laguna Seca,
Motorsports Reunion.

If you are in anyway "green" this might not be for you. ;-)

http://homepage.mac.com/co/Sites/LagunaSwH/index.html

--
Regards,

Savageduck

Very cool. I'd never seen a car with 4 front wheels before. I
assume that is for traction? Anyway, very nice pics.

The rationale was reducing frontal area without losing traction
(contact patch aerea). It worked, but apparently not enough to make it
a 'must' in all designs.

There are a few photos of that and some other F1 cars, as well as a
few dozen 'P&S' shots of the racers at Monterey Historics in my two
albums from a few years back:

Monterey Historics
2003 and '04



--
Frank ess