D7000 and a 40Mz3i.

On 2012-04-08 17:27 , Trevor wrote:
"Alan wrote in message
...
Exactly why I wouldn't "bias it up a bit". I'd want it as fill flash
only,

My comment assumed the Metz was the main exposure light (the 1/200
exposure you snipped out).

My comment assumed it didn't HAVE to be.

Gee, let's just assume the case presented.

Sorry you'll have to point out where he said fill flash WASN'T an option!
Obviously you really mean "the case as YOU read it", and no one else is
allowed an alternative opinion.

Obviously you need therapy, drugs or both.

Does everyone need therapy or drugs in order to put up with you?

No but you seem to maybe need them in general. The drugs/therapy
comment was in reference to your inability to write two sentences
without a capitalized word in each. Oh, hell there's another one up there.

Or just heed the words of the great Guru and chill.

Surely you should heed that advice yourself before jumping on anyone
offering reasonable comments next time.

Next time post your reasonable comments in reply to the OP. He wanted
your input.

(Actually I don't think he cares about anyone's input - but that's based
on a post from some time ago and his recent follow up).

--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
work? With the weird lighting mixtures we see these days, does "color
temperature" have much residual meaning? Enquiring minds want to know!

Of course it does. Rather than the hit and miss of "White Balance", I
determine the light source and set the source temperature and a mired
offset in the green-magenta axis. The key light is the temperature that
is set. For me that comes down to a few, most of the time:
- outdoor: 5500K (can run to 20000K or more - but 5500K is
fine to shoot. For sunsets I want the
warmth of the lower temp light IAC).
- studio: 5500K (strobe)
- indoor: 3800K (incandescent - fine tune in ACR).
- fluorescent: I try to guess at the kind of fluorescent that it is as
fluorescent can run warm (4000K) to cold (6500K). (Careless custodians
also mix fluorescent lighting with warm and cool tubes in the ceiling, so
that can smear the range). It doesn't matter much if I'm off as I can
correct in ACR.
I also bump up the mired in in the magenta axis (when I remember to -
otherwise in ACR). Chimping will reveal a problem if there's a severe
mixed light issue. However, it's often nice to shoot mixed incandescent
and fluorescent at a cooler temp (5500K) and let the incandescent areas
show warm in the photo. The reverse looks cold and eerie (which could
work in some images).

Since I process from raw, that can always be fine tuned in ACR.
As I don't use in-camera JPG's, WB is something I pretty much ignore as an
un-needed complication to the process.



Right, and yet you describe a lot of effort to set WB when you are only
shooting RAW anyway, where it is unnecessary. Why?
I usually prefer to simply shoot a white and grey card where lighting may be
non standard because that will allow me to make the best adjustments in ACR
later. And Fluoro is always a bitch because the spectrum is non continuous,
and not simply because it is a different color temperature as the tube may
indicate. (Newer quad phosphor tubes are better than most CFL's in that
regard however) I can adjust different color areas in PS where necessary
though.
Sodium lighting is worse there of course, but you're not usually trying to
make it look like daylight :-)


Summary: incident meters are very useful

For studio lighting perhaps, and film of course. Can't think of too many
other times I'd want one these days.


and knowing source color temperatures too.

Can be, or just an unnecessary expense and waste of time these days,
depending on your requirements. Personally I'd rate a white/grey card as
more useful for most people, and cheaper.

Trevor.

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Obviously you need therapy, drugs or both.

Does everyone need therapy or drugs in order to put up with you?

No but you seem to maybe need them in general.

Not as much as you obviously.

The drugs/therapy comment was in reference to your inability to write two
sentences without a capitalized word in each. Oh, hell there's another one
up there.

The concept of emphasis in print escapes you, hardly surprising.


Or just heed the words of the great Guru and chill.

Surely you should heed that advice yourself before jumping on anyone
offering reasonable comments next time.

Next time post your reasonable comments in reply to the OP. He wanted
your input.

I did, you butted in.


Trevor.

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 16:11:41 -0400, nospam wrote:
: In article , Robert Coe
: wrote:
:
: : The LCD provides universal benefits except "by the book" lighting
: : ratios - for that nothing beats an incident meter.
:
: By Jove, "incident meter". There's a term out of the past.
:
: no it isn't.
:
: Does anyone still use such?
:
: definitely. how else can you get certain lighting ratios?
:
: I can't remember the last time I heard the idea proposed. But as I
: sit here trying to come up with a plausible white balance for the
: pictures I took in our City art gallery the other day, the device has
: a visceral appeal. Who makes incident meters these days? Which ones
: are any good? Do they really work? With the weird lighting mixtures
: we see these days, does "color temperature" have much residual meaning?
: Enquiring minds want to know!
:
: incident light meters have nothing to do with white balance, unless you
: have one that is designed to measure ambient colour temperature (a few
: do but not many).

And it appears that the few that do are really expensive. I can't see paying
$1000+ for a device I don't yet know how to use. I suppose I could put it on
my wish list at work; then if I don't get around to learning to use it
effectively, maybe my successor will. Realistically, though, I'll probably
just take the advice someone else offered and get a good gray card. :^|

Bob

On 2012-04-08 17:47:46 -0700, Robert Coe said:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 16:11:41 -0400, nospam wrote:
: In article , Robert Coe
: wrote:
:
: : The LCD provides universal benefits except "by the book" lighting
: : ratios - for that nothing beats an incident meter.
:
: By Jove, "incident meter". There's a term out of the past.
:
: no it isn't.
:
: Does anyone still use such?
:
: definitely. how else can you get certain lighting ratios?
:
: I can't remember the last time I heard the idea proposed. But as I
: sit here trying to come up with a plausible white balance for the
: pictures I took in our City art gallery the other day, the device has
: a visceral appeal. Who makes incident meters these days? Which ones
: are any good? Do they really work? With the weird lighting mixtures
: we see these days, does "color temperature" have much residual meaning?
: Enquiring minds want to know!
:
: incident light meters have nothing to do with white balance, unless you
: have one that is designed to measure ambient colour temperature (a few
: do but not many).

And it appears that the few that do are really expensive. I can't see paying
$1000+ for a device I don't yet know how to use. I suppose I could put it on
my wish list at work; then if I don't get around to learning to use it
effectively, maybe my successor will. Realistically, though, I'll probably
just take the advice someone else offered and get a good gray card. :^|

Bob

http://michaeltapesdesign.com/whibal.html


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 08:11:17 +1000, Trevor wrote:

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Obviously you need therapy, drugs or both.

Does everyone need therapy or drugs in order to put up with you?

No but you seem to maybe need them in general.

Not as much as you obviously.

The drugs/therapy comment was in reference to your inability to write
two sentences without a capitalized word in each. Oh, hell there's
another one up there.

The concept of emphasis in print escapes you, hardly surprising.


Or just heed the words of the great Guru and chill.

Surely you should heed that advice yourself before jumping on anyone
offering reasonable comments next time.

Next time post your reasonable comments in reply to the OP. He wanted
your input.

I did, you butted in.


Trevor.

This is newsnet - anyone is free to post.



--
Neil
Reverse ‘a’ and ‘r’
Remove ‘l’ to get address.

David J. Littleboy wrote:

My advice would be to ebay the Metz and get a Nikon flash. I picked up a
used earlier model (now two generation out of date) Canon flash for use with
the 5D and now 5D2. It's friggin amazing. Zooms along with the lens from 24
to 105mm (for longer reach at longer focal lengths) has a fold-out diffuser
for 14mm superwide But best of all, it nails the exposure every time all the
time: in testing it, I tried to find a subject that it would mess up the
exposure on, and couldn't. And the latest ones have even more features. Get
the cheapest one that will do bounce flash and has enough power.

Yesterday I shot at f/8 in an white walled room at ISO 400.
Couldn't raise the ISO or parts in direct sunshine would blow out,
(courtains would have looked bad), couldn't lower the aperture
for sharpness reasons and the sunshine, couldn't decrease the
exposure time or face HSS-flash (and much lower flash output).

2 550EX at manual full power, indirect, and could have added more.
(the newer Canon compact flashes aren't more powerful, either.)


As to the ETTL2, it's good, but if I have enough time, I prefer
setting the flashes manually.

-Wolfgang

On 2012-04-08 18:02 , Trevor wrote:
"Alan wrote in message
...
work? With the weird lighting mixtures we see these days, does "color
temperature" have much residual meaning? Enquiring minds want to know!

Of course it does. Rather than the hit and miss of "White Balance", I
determine the light source and set the source temperature and a mired
offset in the green-magenta axis. The key light is the temperature that
is set. For me that comes down to a few, most of the time:
- outdoor: 5500K (can run to 20000K or more - but 5500K is
fine to shoot. For sunsets I want the
warmth of the lower temp light IAC).
- studio: 5500K (strobe)
- indoor: 3800K (incandescent - fine tune in ACR).
- fluorescent: I try to guess at the kind of fluorescent that it is as
fluorescent can run warm (4000K) to cold (6500K). (Careless custodians
also mix fluorescent lighting with warm and cool tubes in the ceiling, so
that can smear the range). It doesn't matter much if I'm off as I can
correct in ACR.
I also bump up the mired in in the magenta axis (when I remember to -
otherwise in ACR). Chimping will reveal a problem if there's a severe
mixed light issue. However, it's often nice to shoot mixed incandescent
and fluorescent at a cooler temp (5500K) and let the incandescent areas
show warm in the photo. The reverse looks cold and eerie (which could
work in some images).

Since I process from raw, that can always be fine tuned in ACR.
As I don't use in-camera JPG's, WB is something I pretty much ignore as an
un-needed complication to the process.



Right, and yet you describe a lot of effort to set WB when you are only
shooting RAW anyway, where it is unnecessary. Why?

I don't use the WB measurement function, just the color temp and
green-magenta. This is useful for chimping and assures that there is
(usually) one less thing to do on raw import.

Further, unfortunately, on my camera the histo is evaluated from the
JPG, not the raw, so getting the color right-ish affects the histo.

I usually prefer to simply shoot a white and grey card where lighting may be
non standard because that will allow me to make the best adjustments in ACR
later. And Fluoro is always a bitch because the spectrum is non continuous,
and not simply because it is a different color temperature as the tube may
indicate. (Newer quad phosphor tubes are better than most CFL's in that
regard however) I can adjust different color areas in PS where necessary
though.
Sodium lighting is worse there of course, but you're not usually trying to
make it look like daylight :-)

I've only shot a few times under sodium or mercury or other narrow
lights. It's useless to shoot for color truth - you shoot for the
effect of that light instead.

Summary: incident meters are very useful

For studio lighting perhaps, and film of course. Can't think of too many
other times I'd want one these days.

That's the specific context I stated above.



and knowing source color temperatures too.

Can be, or just an unnecessary expense and waste of time these days,

Why? I hit the WB button roll in the temperature and mired and it's
done. Seconds.

depending on your requirements. Personally I'd rate a white/grey card as
more useful for most people, and cheaper.

I have three grey cards with about 1 stop variance and some color cast
differences. In a studio working with a grey card is not practical. I
use the meter where I want the measurement and fire the strobe(s) with
the meter. Much quicker than using the camera as a light setting tool.


--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

On 2012-04-08 18:11 , Trevor wrote:
"Alan wrote in message
...
Obviously you need therapy, drugs or both.

Does everyone need therapy or drugs in order to put up with you?

No but you seem to maybe need them in general.

Not as much as you obviously.

The drugs/therapy comment was in reference to your inability to write two
sentences without a capitalized word in each. Oh, hell there's another one
up there.

The concept of emphasis in print escapes you, hardly surprising.

In the books I read writers rarely, if ever, emphasize with all cap words.



Or just heed the words of the great Guru and chill.

Surely you should heed that advice yourself before jumping on anyone
offering reasonable comments next time.

Next time post your reasonable comments in reply to the OP. He wanted
your input.

I did, you butted in.

No. You replied to my reply to the OP.


--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

On 2012-04-08 20:47 , Robert Coe wrote:
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 16:11:41 -0400, wrote:
: In , Robert Coe
wrote:
:
: : The LCD provides universal benefits except "by the book" lighting
: : ratios - for that nothing beats an incident meter.
:
: By Jove, "incident meter". There's a term out of the past.
:
: no it isn't.
:
: Does anyone still use such?
:
: definitely. how else can you get certain lighting ratios?
:
: I can't remember the last time I heard the idea proposed. But as I
: sit here trying to come up with a plausible white balance for the
: pictures I took in our City art gallery the other day, the device has
: a visceral appeal. Who makes incident meters these days? Which ones
: are any good? Do they really work? With the weird lighting mixtures
: we see these days, does "color temperature" have much residual meaning?
: Enquiring minds want to know!
:
: incident light meters have nothing to do with white balance, unless you
: have one that is designed to measure ambient colour temperature (a few
: do but not many).

And it appears that the few that do are really expensive. I can't see paying
$1000+ for a device I don't yet know how to use. I suppose I could put it on

A color meter is useful in narrow contexts such as product photography
where colors must print or display as they look in real life. An
incident meter is for setting exposure and lighting ratio.

my wish list at work; then if I don't get around to learning to use it
effectively, maybe my successor will. Realistically, though, I'll probably
just take the advice someone else offered and get a good gray card. :^|

Grey cards are nice but any neutral tone from dark grey to white will do
for the WB function.

--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.