Doing everything wrong with PMK Pyro

My understanding is that Pyro doesn't work well with T-grained
films. Have you ordered the Book of Pyro yet??


Laura Halliday wrote:
: I just develpped some film, did just about
: everything wrong, and if the results look this
: good, doing it right should be a thing of
: beauty.

: Over the weekend I bought a Photographer's
: Formulary package of PMK Pyro developer. Read
: the instructions, figured I should try it on the
: next roll of film I developed.

: That next roll proved to be a roll of (new) TMax 100,
: some pictures of Multnomah Falls. The only fixer I
: had available was Ilford's hardening fixer that
: smells like vinegar. This is not what you want for
: pyro staining, but being me (and having nothing else
: available) I used it anyway.

: The results? Except for the yellowish stain, the
: results remind me of TMax 100 developed in Xtol,
: one of my favourite combinations. I'll have to pick
: up some non-acid fixer over the weekend and try this
: PMK Pyro stuff on some old-fashioned film, like HP5.
: This should be fun.

: Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
: Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
: ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte

--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

Frank Pittel wrote:
My understanding is that Pyro doesn't work well with T-grained
films. Have you ordered the Book of Pyro yet??


That's not quite right. PMK doesn't give quite as much stain with TMX
as, say, with HP5+, but it still stains significantly. TMY stains more
than TMX. There's no reason to think that more stain is always better.
To see this, get a negative with a strong pyro stain. Bleach out the
silver and print the negative. Is the print better than that from a
normal negative? If you want to get really fancy, do film speed and
development tests on the pure stain image.

-Peter De Smidt

Frank Pittel wrote:

My understanding is that Pyro doesn't work well with T-grained
films. Have you ordered the Book of Pyro yet??



I have some prints from a friend of mine. They were made from TMX
negatives developed with PMK. They are some of the most beautiful prints
that I have in my collection.

-Peter De Smidt

In article ,
Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote:

Frank Pittel wrote:

My understanding is that Pyro doesn't work well with T-grained
films. Have you ordered the Book of Pyro yet??



I have some prints from a friend of mine. They were made from TMX
negatives developed with PMK. They are some of the most beautiful prints
that I have in my collection.

-Peter De Smidt

Delta 100 works well with PMK & Especially Rollo Pyro
although not truely a "T" grained film the "Core Shell"
technology is close enough. I have lots of Delta 400 and some
Delta 100 4x5 images that are fine examples of the virtues
of Pyro,....stain included :-)
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote:

: Frank Pittel wrote:
:
: My understanding is that Pyro doesn't work well with T-grained
: films. Have you ordered the Book of Pyro yet??
:
:

: I have some prints from a friend of mine. They were made from TMX
: negatives developed with PMK. They are some of the most beautiful prints
: that I have in my collection.

Hearing this is good news to me. I always understood that Pyro didn't work well
with T-grain films. It looks like I will be getting the book of Pyro and will
be giving it a try one of these days with TMX.
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:35:05 -0500, Frank Pittel
wrote:

: I have some prints from a friend of mine. They were made from TMX
: negatives developed with PMK. They are some of the most beautiful prints
: that I have in my collection.

Hearing this is good news to me. I always understood that Pyro didn't work well
with T-grain films. It looks like I will be getting the book of Pyro and will
be giving it a try one of these days with TMX.

It does work with any film as it's simply a developer. The
staining is more pronounced on non-T-grain films such as TXP, PXP and
others. Note that this may have changed since the reformulation due to
moving the production of the films to a new coater. I'm wondering if
TX is now hardened ?

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

John wrote:
: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:35:05 -0500, Frank Pittel
: wrote:

: : I have some prints from a friend of mine. They were made from TMX
: : negatives developed with PMK. They are some of the most beautiful prints
: : that I have in my collection.
:
: Hearing this is good news to me. I always understood that Pyro didn't work well
: with T-grain films. It looks like I will be getting the book of Pyro and will
: be giving it a try one of these days with TMX.

: It does work with any film as it's simply a developer. The
: staining is more pronounced on non-T-grain films such as TXP, PXP and
: others. Note that this may have changed since the reformulation due to
: moving the production of the films to a new coater. I'm wondering if
: TX is now hardened ?

I've always assumed that the reason for using pyro is for the staining effect.
Having never used pyro I don't know about it's effectivness on TMX first hand but
have heard that it doesn't work well with it. I'm glad to hear that what I've
heard about pyro and TMX isn't true.

It could be that the rumor was started not long after TMX came out and people didn't
understand how to properly develop it. I still believe that most people that don't like
TMX don't like it because they're not developing it properly and have thought so for a
long time. I proved this to myself this spring when I started working with Delta-100.
After spending the time to run the development tests which included the expansion and
contraction time tests for N+ and N-. I went out with both TMX and Delta-100 and made
duplicate exposures with both films. After developing both films I went into the darkroom
with the negatives and made the best prints I could from them. After the first couple of
negatives I started noting on the back of the paper which film was used because after the
prints were dry and next to each other I couldn't tell the difference!!! I point this out
becuase the many detractors of TMX like Delta-100. It's interesting to note that the
expansion and contraction times match those of "conventional" B&W films while they are
very different with TMX!!
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

Frank Pittel wrote:


I've always assumed that the reason for using pyro is for the staining effect.
Having never used pyro I don't know about it's effectivness on TMX first hand but
have heard that it doesn't work well with it. I'm glad to hear that what I've
heard about pyro and TMX isn't true.


TMX does stain in PMK, just not as much as other films. I don't have
access to a color transmission densitometer, and so I can't tell you the
actual stain to silver density ratio at 1.3 above FB+F. Will it give you
the results that you're after? There's only one way to find out. Try it.

You might give this a try. Find a nice TMX negative that you developed
in, well, whatever. Make your best print from it. Now bleach the
negative and redevelop in PMK. You will definitely get a pyro stain.
Make your best print. Compare prints. I think that Patrick Gainer talked
about doing this in one of his articles. Is that right, Pat?

This technique will not give exactly the same results as developing in
PMK directly. My guess would be that you'd have more staining with the
re-development process, just as bleached and re-developed prints tend to
respond to toners more readily. Thus for those who want to maximize
image stain, this might be just the ticket.

I used PMK for a couple of years. It's a nice developer. Nonetheless I
prefer Xtol.

-Peter

Peter De Smidt wrote:

Frank Pittel wrote:


I've always assumed that the reason for using pyro is for the staining effect.
Having never used pyro I don't know about it's effectivness on TMX first hand but
have heard that it doesn't work well with it. I'm glad to hear that what I've
heard about pyro and TMX isn't true.


TMX does stain in PMK, just not as much as other films. I don't have
access to a color transmission densitometer, and so I can't tell you the
actual stain to silver density ratio at 1.3 above FB+F. Will it give you
the results that you're after? There's only one way to find out. Try it.

You might give this a try. Find a nice TMX negative that you developed
in, well, whatever. Make your best print from it. Now bleach the
negative and redevelop in PMK. You will definitely get a pyro stain.
Make your best print. Compare prints. I think that Patrick Gainer talked
about doing this in one of his articles. Is that right, Pat?

This technique will not give exactly the same results as developing in
PMK directly. My guess would be that you'd have more staining with the
re-development process, just as bleached and re-developed prints tend to
respond to toners more readily. Thus for those who want to maximize
image stain, this might be just the ticket.

I used PMK for a couple of years. It's a nice developer. Nonetheless I
prefer Xtol.

-Peter

Yes, several years ago. I later saw that my use of pyro (specifically PMK) as an
intensidier was not the first use in that manner. It is helpful in difficult
situations. The results differ according to whether you use blue sensitive graded paper
or VC, The greatest change in contrast is with graded paper, but the change in
gradations possible on VC paper are worth investigating. You have a yellowish
proportional image which can be cut off at various levels by a blue or magenta filter
to change some of the midrange tones in unorthodox ways. No one yet has accused me of
being orthodox except in religion.

"Laura Halliday" wrote in message
om...
I just develpped some film, did just about
everything wrong, and if the results look this
good, doing it right should be a thing of
beauty.

Over the weekend I bought a Photographer's
Formulary package of PMK Pyro developer. Read
the instructions, figured I should try it on the
next roll of film I developed.

That next roll proved to be a roll of (new) TMax 100,
some pictures of Multnomah Falls. The only fixer I
had available was Ilford's hardening fixer that
smells like vinegar. This is not what you want for
pyro staining, but being me (and having nothing else
available) I used it anyway.

The results? Except for the yellowish stain, the
results remind me of TMax 100 developed in Xtol,
one of my favourite combinations. I'll have to pick
up some non-acid fixer over the weekend and try this
PMK Pyro stuff on some old-fashioned film, like HP5.
This should be fun.

Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte

I don't know what you think you did wrong. The stain
should be imagewise, not overall. The stain acts as a sort
of intensifier for the silver image increasing its effective
density for printing paper which sees mainly blue and
blue-green light.
When used with variable contrast paper the yellow stain
is supposed to lower the contrast of the highlights. This
may or may not be desirable depending on the image. PMK
works for a lot of people but has become enough of a cult
developer that its hard to know if it really has any
advantages.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA