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#11
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"Gene Palmiter" writes:
I have shot people quite a bit using on-camera flash and slaves...but now I have a couple of cheap monos with umbrellas and could use some help learning to use them effectively. They have a half-power setting....will that automatically give me the 1:2 ratio I have read about if I set one on full and one on half and both are the same distance from the subject? How would I determine the right distance? It's been a long time since I read about guide numbers....and I don't recall anything about them. Since my camera is just 4mp (Oly E-10) I prefer to take head shots...sometimes a bit more. How do I calculate my setup? Inexpensive flash meter is on order as well as cable release....I am sure to have some questions when I get it. The "right" distance is as close as possible to get the coverage you need and not get in the way. The purpose of umbrellas, softboxes, etc. is to make "soft" light, that is, light that casts soft shadows. The measure of softness is the angular dimension of the light source when viewed from the subject position -- the bigger, the softer. So moving it closer makes it softer. At some point, it's getting in the way too much, and then it's too close. I haven't taken out my flash meter since I started shooting digital with multi-light setups. I guess if I wanted to actually measure the lighting ratio it'd still be more convenient, but mostly I just eyeball it or calculate it. Similarly, even more so, for guide numbers. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/ Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/ Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/ |
#12
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"Gene Palmiter" writes:
I have shot people quite a bit using on-camera flash and slaves...but now I have a couple of cheap monos with umbrellas and could use some help learning to use them effectively. They have a half-power setting....will that automatically give me the 1:2 ratio I have read about if I set one on full and one on half and both are the same distance from the subject? How would I determine the right distance? It's been a long time since I read about guide numbers....and I don't recall anything about them. Since my camera is just 4mp (Oly E-10) I prefer to take head shots...sometimes a bit more. How do I calculate my setup? Inexpensive flash meter is on order as well as cable release....I am sure to have some questions when I get it. The "right" distance is as close as possible to get the coverage you need and not get in the way. The purpose of umbrellas, softboxes, etc. is to make "soft" light, that is, light that casts soft shadows. The measure of softness is the angular dimension of the light source when viewed from the subject position -- the bigger, the softer. So moving it closer makes it softer. At some point, it's getting in the way too much, and then it's too close. I haven't taken out my flash meter since I started shooting digital with multi-light setups. I guess if I wanted to actually measure the lighting ratio it'd still be more convenient, but mostly I just eyeball it or calculate it. Similarly, even more so, for guide numbers. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/ Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/ Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/ |
#13
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On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:20:15 -0700, Marc 182
wrote: I'm hard pressed to imagine where you'd want to use both of those umbrellas at the same time. Maybe a product shot. Marc A lot of my portraiture requires using 5-6 lights at a time. Sometimes it takes 4 lights with umbrellas just to keept the background evenly clean and white. |
#14
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On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:20:15 -0700, Marc 182
wrote: I'm hard pressed to imagine where you'd want to use both of those umbrellas at the same time. Maybe a product shot. Marc A lot of my portraiture requires using 5-6 lights at a time. Sometimes it takes 4 lights with umbrellas just to keept the background evenly clean and white. |
#15
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On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:20:15 -0700, Marc 182
wrote: I'm hard pressed to imagine where you'd want to use both of those umbrellas at the same time. Maybe a product shot. Marc A lot of my portraiture requires using 5-6 lights at a time. Sometimes it takes 4 lights with umbrellas just to keept the background evenly clean and white. |
#16
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The "right" distance is as close as possible to get the coverage you need and not get in the way. The purpose of umbrellas, softboxes, etc. is to make "soft" light, that is, light that casts soft shadows. The measure of softness is the angular dimension of the light source when viewed from the subject position -- the bigger, the softer. So moving it closer makes it softer. At some point, it's getting in the way too much, and then it's too close. Hmmm....yes...seems so obvious now that you mention it....but its counter-intuitive. Shadows are sharp...move the light back a bit. Nope! Damn...should have figured that. I am hoping that with the meter I can put some science to it. Right now I move things around until I like it. Models might start to loose confidence after an hour or two of that. I haven't taken out my flash meter since I started shooting digital with multi-light setups. I guess if I wanted to actually measure the lighting ratio it'd still be more convenient, but mostly I just eyeball it or calculate it. Similarly, even more so, for guide numbers. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/ Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/ Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/ |
#17
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The "right" distance is as close as possible to get the coverage you need and not get in the way. The purpose of umbrellas, softboxes, etc. is to make "soft" light, that is, light that casts soft shadows. The measure of softness is the angular dimension of the light source when viewed from the subject position -- the bigger, the softer. So moving it closer makes it softer. At some point, it's getting in the way too much, and then it's too close. Hmmm....yes...seems so obvious now that you mention it....but its counter-intuitive. Shadows are sharp...move the light back a bit. Nope! Damn...should have figured that. I am hoping that with the meter I can put some science to it. Right now I move things around until I like it. Models might start to loose confidence after an hour or two of that. I haven't taken out my flash meter since I started shooting digital with multi-light setups. I guess if I wanted to actually measure the lighting ratio it'd still be more convenient, but mostly I just eyeball it or calculate it. Similarly, even more so, for guide numbers. -- David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/ Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/ Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/ |
#18
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"Gene Palmiter" writes:
The "right" distance is as close as possible to get the coverage you need and not get in the way. The purpose of umbrellas, softboxes, etc. is to make "soft" light, that is, light that casts soft shadows. The measure of softness is the angular dimension of the light source when viewed from the subject position -- the bigger, the softer. So moving it closer makes it softer. At some point, it's getting in the way too much, and then it's too close. Hmmm....yes...seems so obvious now that you mention it....but its counter-intuitive. Shadows are sharp...move the light back a bit. Nope! Damn...should have figured that. Very glad I found a way to put it that really got the principle across! I am hoping that with the meter I can put some science to it. Right now I move things around until I like it. Models might start to loose confidence after an hour or two of that. Yeah, that can be an issue. Getting an especially cooperative model to work with you for some specifically experimental sessions might get through some of the learning curve quickly and relatively easily. Or, as somebody suggested, a large stuffed animal; in my experience they're *extremely* patient! -- David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/ Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/ Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/ |
#19
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I have shot people quite a bit using on-camera flash and slaves...but now I have a couple of cheap monos with umbrellas and could use some help learning to use them effectively. They have a half-power setting....will that automatically give me the 1:2 ratio I have read about if I set one on full and one on half and both are the same distance from the subject? How would I determine the right distance? It's been a long time since I read about guide numbers....and I don't recall anything about them. Since my camera is just 4mp (Oly E-10) I prefer to take head shots...sometimes a bit more. How do I calculate my setup? Inexpensive flash meter is on order as well as cable release....I am sure to have some questions when I get it. Through a strange and old fashioned system, the basic key and fill light exposure relationship most thought of as a 2:1 (one stop over) is in Professional PHotographers of America nomenclature called 3:1 lighting. This is because in the early days of black and white processing everything was based on the threashold or baseline exposure, you set your fill light first, then set your key light depending on the level of drama in the lighting you wanted. the fill light was supposed to evenly light the entire scene, so the subject was assumed to received the basic exposure of one unit of light on each side, a 1:1 now you add a key light and it is set to be 2 units of light, this is one stop over the fill exposure. so now we have 2+1:1 or 3:1 Now, trust me on this, I don't care what you have seen from any other photog, prom shot, school pix, family portrait, some jerkoff doing model shots, and even the directions in the box your light kit came it, DO NOT put one light on each side of the camera, I know it seems logical but it gives you the worst kind of lighint imaginable. Its called cross light and what it does is give you two sets of highlights. simple set up. take one of your flash heads and bounce it off the side wall. that's it. urr well, you'll need a reflector for the other side, and if your wall ain't white you might have to hang a sheet or paint it. a bit more advanced, take a second head and stash it behind your background (well I'm used to a background stand with a canvas roll hanging so there is room behind to stash something) and bounce it off the ceiling. don't got that, take your head and put it in can, a coffee can (geez, can you find one anymore? nobody drinks coffee out of a big can anymore, its all about those bags, and now the cheap coffee comes in plastic tubs) or make a snoot to limit the light spread and aim it at the back of the subject, I'd place it directly opposite the key light. exposure? take a series from f/22 down and look at them on the monitor, not your lcd, use the one where you see detail, skin tone on the checkbones. use a bigger reflector if needed, you can get sheets of styrofoam for 12 bucks. whats the ratio? who the f*#$& cares. If you want more just kick it in photoshop. but all things being equal, setting one at half power will give you one stop difference, equal distance, equal reflector, etc. get rid of those umbrellas, they suck. whats the right distance? close enough to give a large light (if shooting directly at the subject and using a modifier like a softbox or brollie) I like to say that the light should be twice as big as the subject, (commercial photog's rule of thumb) so that's why i like to bounce off side walls. why does 99% of people shooters use what has to be the ugliest lighting in the world, two brollies in a cross fire? A. cause that's the way hacks have always done it, it used to be called 'mug shot' lighting cause that's the way police photogs did it. two metal scoops on either side of the camera. later it was two umbrellas, but the lighting is rather the same, the metal scoops were used with hot lights at about 3 feet, brollies tend to be twice as big but set up twice as far. ergo almost the same lighting. this and the rest of my BS can be found at the z-prophoto mailing list at yahoogroups.com |
#20
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I have shot people quite a bit using on-camera flash and slaves...but now I have a couple of cheap monos with umbrellas and could use some help learning to use them effectively. They have a half-power setting....will that automatically give me the 1:2 ratio I have read about if I set one on full and one on half and both are the same distance from the subject? How would I determine the right distance? It's been a long time since I read about guide numbers....and I don't recall anything about them. Since my camera is just 4mp (Oly E-10) I prefer to take head shots...sometimes a bit more. How do I calculate my setup? Inexpensive flash meter is on order as well as cable release....I am sure to have some questions when I get it. Through a strange and old fashioned system, the basic key and fill light exposure relationship most thought of as a 2:1 (one stop over) is in Professional PHotographers of America nomenclature called 3:1 lighting. This is because in the early days of black and white processing everything was based on the threashold or baseline exposure, you set your fill light first, then set your key light depending on the level of drama in the lighting you wanted. the fill light was supposed to evenly light the entire scene, so the subject was assumed to received the basic exposure of one unit of light on each side, a 1:1 now you add a key light and it is set to be 2 units of light, this is one stop over the fill exposure. so now we have 2+1:1 or 3:1 Now, trust me on this, I don't care what you have seen from any other photog, prom shot, school pix, family portrait, some jerkoff doing model shots, and even the directions in the box your light kit came it, DO NOT put one light on each side of the camera, I know it seems logical but it gives you the worst kind of lighint imaginable. Its called cross light and what it does is give you two sets of highlights. simple set up. take one of your flash heads and bounce it off the side wall. that's it. urr well, you'll need a reflector for the other side, and if your wall ain't white you might have to hang a sheet or paint it. a bit more advanced, take a second head and stash it behind your background (well I'm used to a background stand with a canvas roll hanging so there is room behind to stash something) and bounce it off the ceiling. don't got that, take your head and put it in can, a coffee can (geez, can you find one anymore? nobody drinks coffee out of a big can anymore, its all about those bags, and now the cheap coffee comes in plastic tubs) or make a snoot to limit the light spread and aim it at the back of the subject, I'd place it directly opposite the key light. exposure? take a series from f/22 down and look at them on the monitor, not your lcd, use the one where you see detail, skin tone on the checkbones. use a bigger reflector if needed, you can get sheets of styrofoam for 12 bucks. whats the ratio? who the f*#$& cares. If you want more just kick it in photoshop. but all things being equal, setting one at half power will give you one stop difference, equal distance, equal reflector, etc. get rid of those umbrellas, they suck. whats the right distance? close enough to give a large light (if shooting directly at the subject and using a modifier like a softbox or brollie) I like to say that the light should be twice as big as the subject, (commercial photog's rule of thumb) so that's why i like to bounce off side walls. why does 99% of people shooters use what has to be the ugliest lighting in the world, two brollies in a cross fire? A. cause that's the way hacks have always done it, it used to be called 'mug shot' lighting cause that's the way police photogs did it. two metal scoops on either side of the camera. later it was two umbrellas, but the lighting is rather the same, the metal scoops were used with hot lights at about 3 feet, brollies tend to be twice as big but set up twice as far. ergo almost the same lighting. this and the rest of my BS can be found at the z-prophoto mailing list at yahoogroups.com |
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