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Choosing aperture and shutter, which first?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 18th 04, 08:42 PM
Quercus
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Posts: n/a
Default Choosing aperture and shutter, which first?

Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters
in their cameras to get the desired exposure.

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time
until the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first
shutter and then aperture to meet correct lighting?

I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion
you'll probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for
f-stop... And so on...

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...

Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?

I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto
and get a DSLR ;-)

-Quercus-

--
Yo uso Software Libre
Debian GNU/Linux (Sarge) Kernel 2.6.7
OpenPGP id: 700F3CC6
Mi weblog :: http://quercus.nosomos.org
  #2  
Old September 18th 04, 09:39 PM
Joseph Meehan
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Posts: n/a
Default

Quercus wrote:
Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters
in their cameras to get the desired exposure.

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time
until the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first
shutter and then aperture to meet correct lighting?

I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion
you'll probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for
f-stop... And so on...

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...

Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?

I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto
and get a DSLR ;-)

-Quercus-


Your question is like asking Pacaso which color does he use.

Photography is a science, but more important for most of the people
here, it is also an art.

The science of photography can be taken car of by .... science. Our
automatic cameras can make those decisions for us. Since you asked the
question, you want the answer as it applies to art and art is . . . within
each of us and not something that we can get by asking.

You can do well by learning the science of how they relate to each other
and how they effect the results. Then you, the artist can make the decision
that makes the art.

Good Luck


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math



  #3  
Old September 18th 04, 10:52 PM
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quercus wrote:

Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters
in their cameras to get the desired exposure.


Since a particular composition includes depth-of-field as a
compositional element, it is usually natural to select aperture
first. From there, the film ISO and the metering dictate the
shutter speed. (metering technique and desired exposure
placement will vary the results a little too). If a tripod is
not used, then the shutter speed may take precedence.

In some cases, shutter speed is more important (to freeze or
purposely blur a moving object, for example).

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time
until the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first
shutter and then aperture to meet correct lighting?


See above. Whether in manual or A (or S) priority the outcome
dictates whether the image is to be controlled by one or the other.


I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion
you'll probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for
f-stop... And so on...


Yep

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...


Usually aperture choice dominates ... it goes to composition
(whether shallow or great DOF is desired).


Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?


They work equally well, they are in fact no different wrt to
exposure. They are different with respect to desired outcome.


I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto
and get a DSLR ;-)


Most who use the semi auto exposure modes tend to use aperture
priority except where subject movement control or camera shake
dictate a higher speed.

Note, with a DSLR, you can also vary the ISO. So if you need
greater DOF as well as a relatively high shutter speed, then a
higher ISO can be selected (at the expense of noise).

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
  #4  
Old September 18th 04, 10:52 PM
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quercus wrote:

Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters
in their cameras to get the desired exposure.


Since a particular composition includes depth-of-field as a
compositional element, it is usually natural to select aperture
first. From there, the film ISO and the metering dictate the
shutter speed. (metering technique and desired exposure
placement will vary the results a little too). If a tripod is
not used, then the shutter speed may take precedence.

In some cases, shutter speed is more important (to freeze or
purposely blur a moving object, for example).

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time
until the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first
shutter and then aperture to meet correct lighting?


See above. Whether in manual or A (or S) priority the outcome
dictates whether the image is to be controlled by one or the other.


I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion
you'll probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for
f-stop... And so on...


Yep

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...


Usually aperture choice dominates ... it goes to composition
(whether shallow or great DOF is desired).


Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?


They work equally well, they are in fact no different wrt to
exposure. They are different with respect to desired outcome.


I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto
and get a DSLR ;-)


Most who use the semi auto exposure modes tend to use aperture
priority except where subject movement control or camera shake
dictate a higher speed.

Note, with a DSLR, you can also vary the ISO. So if you need
greater DOF as well as a relatively high shutter speed, then a
higher ISO can be selected (at the expense of noise).

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
  #5  
Old September 18th 04, 10:52 PM
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quercus wrote:

Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters
in their cameras to get the desired exposure.


Since a particular composition includes depth-of-field as a
compositional element, it is usually natural to select aperture
first. From there, the film ISO and the metering dictate the
shutter speed. (metering technique and desired exposure
placement will vary the results a little too). If a tripod is
not used, then the shutter speed may take precedence.

In some cases, shutter speed is more important (to freeze or
purposely blur a moving object, for example).

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time
until the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first
shutter and then aperture to meet correct lighting?


See above. Whether in manual or A (or S) priority the outcome
dictates whether the image is to be controlled by one or the other.


I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion
you'll probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for
f-stop... And so on...


Yep

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...


Usually aperture choice dominates ... it goes to composition
(whether shallow or great DOF is desired).


Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?


They work equally well, they are in fact no different wrt to
exposure. They are different with respect to desired outcome.


I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto
and get a DSLR ;-)


Most who use the semi auto exposure modes tend to use aperture
priority except where subject movement control or camera shake
dictate a higher speed.

Note, with a DSLR, you can also vary the ISO. So if you need
greater DOF as well as a relatively high shutter speed, then a
higher ISO can be selected (at the expense of noise).

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
  #6  
Old September 19th 04, 02:33 AM
Nick C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Quercus" wrote in message
...
Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters in
their cameras to get the desired exposure.

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time until
the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first shutter
and then aperture to meet correct lighting?

I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion you'll
probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for f-stop... And
so on...

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...

Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?

I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto and
get a DSLR ;-)

-Quercus-


To each, their own method. When intending to keep f-stop and speed properly
related to each other, I generally prefer to use f-stops because I can
mentally gauge what the depth of field is going to be with the f-stops I
chose to use. If I'm in a manual mode, after metering the scene I'll
generally set the camera's speed and manually open or close an f-stop, or do
both, as I see the scene I'm about to photograph.

The essential thing is to become familiar with the film your using and
become so familiar with the camera your using, that you instinctively know
what you're going to do when you are about to photograph a scene.

nick


--
Yo uso Software Libre
Debian GNU/Linux (Sarge) Kernel 2.6.7
OpenPGP id: 700F3CC6
Mi weblog :: http://quercus.nosomos.org



  #7  
Old September 19th 04, 02:33 AM
Nick C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Quercus" wrote in message
...
Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters in
their cameras to get the desired exposure.

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time until
the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first shutter
and then aperture to meet correct lighting?

I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion you'll
probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for f-stop... And
so on...

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...

Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?

I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto and
get a DSLR ;-)

-Quercus-


To each, their own method. When intending to keep f-stop and speed properly
related to each other, I generally prefer to use f-stops because I can
mentally gauge what the depth of field is going to be with the f-stops I
chose to use. If I'm in a manual mode, after metering the scene I'll
generally set the camera's speed and manually open or close an f-stop, or do
both, as I see the scene I'm about to photograph.

The essential thing is to become familiar with the film your using and
become so familiar with the camera your using, that you instinctively know
what you're going to do when you are about to photograph a scene.

nick


--
Yo uso Software Libre
Debian GNU/Linux (Sarge) Kernel 2.6.7
OpenPGP id: 700F3CC6
Mi weblog :: http://quercus.nosomos.org



  #8  
Old September 19th 04, 02:33 AM
Nick C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Quercus" wrote in message
...
Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters in
their cameras to get the desired exposure.

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time until
the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first shutter
and then aperture to meet correct lighting?

I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion you'll
probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for f-stop... And
so on...

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...

Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?

I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto and
get a DSLR ;-)

-Quercus-


To each, their own method. When intending to keep f-stop and speed properly
related to each other, I generally prefer to use f-stops because I can
mentally gauge what the depth of field is going to be with the f-stops I
chose to use. If I'm in a manual mode, after metering the scene I'll
generally set the camera's speed and manually open or close an f-stop, or do
both, as I see the scene I'm about to photograph.

The essential thing is to become familiar with the film your using and
become so familiar with the camera your using, that you instinctively know
what you're going to do when you are about to photograph a scene.

nick


--
Yo uso Software Libre
Debian GNU/Linux (Sarge) Kernel 2.6.7
OpenPGP id: 700F3CC6
Mi weblog :: http://quercus.nosomos.org



  #9  
Old September 19th 04, 07:45 AM
Justin Thyme
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Quercus" wrote in message
...
Hi there, I was wondering how do people "usually" set those parameters in
their cameras to get the desired exposure.

I mean, with the camera in full manual mode, do you first choose the
f-stop (looking for depth of field) and then you adjust shutter time until
the exposure will be correct or you do it in reverse order, first shutter
and then aperture to meet correct lighting?

For me it depends on a variety of options - which camera body I'm using,
what I'm photographing etc.
My oldest body is manual only. On it I normally set shutter first because
the shutter control is on the top of the body and is a bit of a pain to set
while composing a shot, whereas with the aperture on the lens it is quick
and easy to adjust. So, I'll set the shutter to something in the range of
the aperture I'd like to use, so if for example i'm in bright light and want
a large aperture I'll dial up something fast on the shutter, then make the
slight adjustments with the aperture until I get the exposure (bearing in
mind there isn't a huge difference of DOF between for example F2 and F4).
Only in very specific circumstances do I set an aperture then adjust the
shutter till I get what I want.
A slightly newer body that I have, has aperture priority auto exposure,
which I normally use. So in this instance I set the aperture to what I want
and the camera does the shutter to whatever is right. Of course in the
viewfinder it shows me what it's doing, so if I want a specific shutter
speed, I just dial the aperture ring until the shutter is right. Even for
things like waterfall shots I do this - Just dial the aperture up until the
shutter needle is pointing to about 1sec.
My newest body is of the fully automatic variety, and 90% of the time that's
just where I leave it. I mainly use this body for family snapshot type
shooting - where I don't give a hoot if it is using F2 or F22, I don't care
if it is using 1/30 or 1/1000, all I care about is that when I point the
camera in the right direction and press the shutter button that it is going
to take a shot. for the occasions when I do have something specific in mind,
I normally will use Aperture priority mode, because DOF is my main concern
(portraits, close ups). On the odd occasion when I am doing waterfalls,
night streets etc, then I will use Shutter priority or full manual but it is
rare. Even for sports shooting I don't use shutter priority - In that
situation I use aperture priority and dial up something nice and wide,
because I know that no matter what the light the camera will still be able
to get exposure - if I dialled up a fast shutter, it might not be able to
open the aperture wide enough, in which case the camera stalls, I have to
change down a shutter speed, and I miss the shot.

I guess that depends of what is the subject, if it has fast motion you'll
probably set first a lower shutter time, and then check for f-stop... And
so on...

But my question is about "normal" pictures, those without fast motion or
low depth of field required (portraits)...

Which method works best? Shutter-Aperture or Aperture-Shutter? Any
other? Is that just a matter of personal preference?

I own a point and shoot digicam, with shutter and aperture priority
programs, so I don't have all the control over those variables that I
would like to, but I wanna get the best from it while I win the lotto and
get a DSLR ;-)

-Quercus-

--
Yo uso Software Libre
Debian GNU/Linux (Sarge) Kernel 2.6.7
OpenPGP id: 700F3CC6
Mi weblog :: http://quercus.nosomos.org



  #10  
Old September 20th 04, 09:35 AM
Quercus
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Posts: n/a
Default

Thank you all... That was really useful :-)

I like the aperture-first approach, and I think that would work fine
with a SLR, but not with my p&s :-(

Compact digital cameras have greater DOF, and you can hardly get the
blur effect in the background, even with the lowest f-stop. And in
aperture priority program you have a limited range of f-stops availabe,
depending of the focal length selected (I think this is common even in
SLR in auto mode?) and as there won't be so much difference in using
f2.2 or f5.6, attending to DOF, I'd better use shutter priority and
adjust later the aperture with the exposure bias control.

Yes, I know I do need a DSLR :-)

Ok, thanks again for your answers.

-Quercus-


--
Yo uso Software Libre
Debian GNU/Linux (Sarge) Kernel 2.6.7
OpenPGP id: 700F3CC6
Mi weblog :: http://quercus.nosomos.org
 




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