Ink Jet Prints Problems

Ink Jet Prints Problems:

I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if
anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an
Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use
several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have
used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have
noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of
time. Say six months. I have taken new prints and covered half of the
image with a piece of acid free paper and put them up out of the way.
Never in bright or direct light. After a while the uncovered side
has faded until there is a line visible. The room I do this in is
not very bright and when I placed one in the dinning room which is
much bright brighter with indirect sunlight the fading is much worst.
I have taken an 8x12 color print from Walmart and am doing the same
test with it. After almost two years I have noticed no change in the
machine prints brightness. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim
that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?

Marshall Thurman

"Marshall Thurman" wrote in message
...


Ink Jet Prints Problems:
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?
Not me. The only combination of paper and ink that faded on me was Minolta
paper and Epson Photo 700 ink. My 1280 prints look fine even after 3 years.
I do put them under glass which helps get rid of the ultra violet light.
Jim

"Marshall Thurman" wrote in message
...


Ink Jet Prints Problems:
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?
Not me. The only combination of paper and ink that faded on me was Minolta
paper and Epson Photo 700 ink. My 1280 prints look fine even after 3 years.
I do put them under glass which helps get rid of the ultra violet light.
Jim

"Marshall Thurman" wrote in message
...


Ink Jet Prints Problems:
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?
Not me. The only combination of paper and ink that faded on me was Minolta
paper and Epson Photo 700 ink. My 1280 prints look fine even after 3 years.
I do put them under glass which helps get rid of the ultra violet light.
Jim

Marshall Thurman wrote:

Ink Jet Prints Problems:

I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if
anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an
Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use
several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have
used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have
noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of
time. Say six months. I have taken new prints and covered half of the
image with a piece of acid free paper and put them up out of the way.
Never in bright or direct light. After a while the uncovered side
has faded until there is a line visible. The room I do this in is
not very bright and when I placed one in the dinning room which is
much bright brighter with indirect sunlight the fading is much worst.
I have taken an 8x12 color print from Walmart and am doing the same
test with it. After almost two years I have noticed no change in the
machine prints brightness. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim
that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?

Marshall Thurman


You need to read a lot more. Yes, lots of people have noticed this
problem. It has been much talked about in print and on the Internet for
as many years as there have been ink jet printers.

Yes, the technology is getting better, but it's not perfect yet. With
the right combinations of paper, ink, storage, and display, prints can
be truly "long lasting" now. Twenty five, 50, or even 100 years should
do it. However, it really has to be the right combination.

For example, your dye based Epson inks on your 1280 will last quite
awhile on some Epson papers. Of course, they need to be displayed under
glass, not out in the open like you are doing. They may or may not do as
well on Ilford and Kodak papers. Alas, it's hard to find good tests done
on 3rd party papers. OTOH, you will get quick fading on other papers.

The pigmented inks on my Epson R800 should last much longer on most
papers. However, there are some papers it wouldn't be good on at all.
These inks aren't as affected by light, but there can still be a gas
problem that is helped by display under glass.

Yes, it's a well know and over debated issue. Yes, it's getting better.
No, it's not perfect. However, it's way better than is was a few years ago.

Now the next problem is getting all the techno geeks who rant about this
to make images that any one will care if it lasts 50 or 100 years.

Clyde

Marshall Thurman wrote:

Ink Jet Prints Problems:

I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if
anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an
Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use
several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have
used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have
noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of
time. Say six months. I have taken new prints and covered half of the
image with a piece of acid free paper and put them up out of the way.
Never in bright or direct light. After a while the uncovered side
has faded until there is a line visible. The room I do this in is
not very bright and when I placed one in the dinning room which is
much bright brighter with indirect sunlight the fading is much worst.
I have taken an 8x12 color print from Walmart and am doing the same
test with it. After almost two years I have noticed no change in the
machine prints brightness. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim
that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?

Marshall Thurman


You need to read a lot more. Yes, lots of people have noticed this
problem. It has been much talked about in print and on the Internet for
as many years as there have been ink jet printers.

Yes, the technology is getting better, but it's not perfect yet. With
the right combinations of paper, ink, storage, and display, prints can
be truly "long lasting" now. Twenty five, 50, or even 100 years should
do it. However, it really has to be the right combination.

For example, your dye based Epson inks on your 1280 will last quite
awhile on some Epson papers. Of course, they need to be displayed under
glass, not out in the open like you are doing. They may or may not do as
well on Ilford and Kodak papers. Alas, it's hard to find good tests done
on 3rd party papers. OTOH, you will get quick fading on other papers.

The pigmented inks on my Epson R800 should last much longer on most
papers. However, there are some papers it wouldn't be good on at all.
These inks aren't as affected by light, but there can still be a gas
problem that is helped by display under glass.

Yes, it's a well know and over debated issue. Yes, it's getting better.
No, it's not perfect. However, it's way better than is was a few years ago.

Now the next problem is getting all the techno geeks who rant about this
to make images that any one will care if it lasts 50 or 100 years.

Clyde

From: Marshall Thurman

I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if
anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an
Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use
several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have
used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have
noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of
time. Say six months.

The manufactures of ink jet machine claim
that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?

The ink jet manufacturers like Epson and Canon primarily use the testing
methods of Henry Wilhelm, who tests inkjets and traditional photo papers to the
same set of conditions. The longevity estimates assume the prints are
displayed under glass in certain temperature, humidity and light-intensity
conditions and are based on accelerated testing.

For the Epson 1280 results of these tests ranged from 26 years for the
ColorLife paper down to 6 months for Glossy Film. The Ilford and Kodak papers
weren't tested but likely would do poor in a longevity test with these inks.

The 1280 also had a problem with gas-fastness (as opposed to light-fastness) in
some environments, especially with glossy papers, and that's likely what you
are seeing. Some of these prints had an orange-shift in a matter of days.

For more info check these sites:
http://www.inkjetart.com/news/longevity/index.html
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/...61,pg,1,00.asp
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/

You can download Wilhelm's book in PDF format if you want to learn more about
the testing methods.

Bottom line is that to get good longevity results you need to stick with paper
and ink combos that have been tested and then display the prints in similar
conditions to the test assumptions, ie, under glass etc.

Bill

From: Marshall Thurman

I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if
anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an
Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use
several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have
used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have
noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of
time. Say six months.

The manufactures of ink jet machine claim
that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?

The ink jet manufacturers like Epson and Canon primarily use the testing
methods of Henry Wilhelm, who tests inkjets and traditional photo papers to the
same set of conditions. The longevity estimates assume the prints are
displayed under glass in certain temperature, humidity and light-intensity
conditions and are based on accelerated testing.

For the Epson 1280 results of these tests ranged from 26 years for the
ColorLife paper down to 6 months for Glossy Film. The Ilford and Kodak papers
weren't tested but likely would do poor in a longevity test with these inks.

The 1280 also had a problem with gas-fastness (as opposed to light-fastness) in
some environments, especially with glossy papers, and that's likely what you
are seeing. Some of these prints had an orange-shift in a matter of days.

For more info check these sites:
http://www.inkjetart.com/news/longevity/index.html
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/...61,pg,1,00.asp
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/

You can download Wilhelm's book in PDF format if you want to learn more about
the testing methods.

Bottom line is that to get good longevity results you need to stick with paper
and ink combos that have been tested and then display the prints in similar
conditions to the test assumptions, ie, under glass etc.

Bill

From: Marshall Thurman

I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if
anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an
Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use
several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have
used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have
noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of
time. Say six months.

The manufactures of ink jet machine claim
that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?

The ink jet manufacturers like Epson and Canon primarily use the testing
methods of Henry Wilhelm, who tests inkjets and traditional photo papers to the
same set of conditions. The longevity estimates assume the prints are
displayed under glass in certain temperature, humidity and light-intensity
conditions and are based on accelerated testing.

For the Epson 1280 results of these tests ranged from 26 years for the
ColorLife paper down to 6 months for Glossy Film. The Ilford and Kodak papers
weren't tested but likely would do poor in a longevity test with these inks.

The 1280 also had a problem with gas-fastness (as opposed to light-fastness) in
some environments, especially with glossy papers, and that's likely what you
are seeing. Some of these prints had an orange-shift in a matter of days.

For more info check these sites:
http://www.inkjetart.com/news/longevity/index.html
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/...61,pg,1,00.asp
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/

You can download Wilhelm's book in PDF format if you want to learn more about
the testing methods.

Bottom line is that to get good longevity results you need to stick with paper
and ink combos that have been tested and then display the prints in similar
conditions to the test assumptions, ie, under glass etc.

Bill

Marshall Thurman wrote:

Ink Jet Prints Problems:

I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if
anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an
Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use
several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have
used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have
noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of
time. Say six months. I have taken new prints and covered half of the
image with a piece of acid free paper and put them up out of the way.
Never in bright or direct light. After a while the uncovered side
has faded until there is a line visible. The room I do this in is
not very bright and when I placed one in the dinning room which is
much bright brighter with indirect sunlight the fading is much worst.
I have taken an 8x12 color print from Walmart and am doing the same
test with it. After almost two years I have noticed no change in the
machine prints brightness. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim
that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true
in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem?

Marshall Thurman

Your problem is widespread Marshall. Some people don't notice the
problem as much as others. This, no doubt is due to atmosphere
variations. The way coated paper is made is the cause, not so much the
inks used. To get gloss or "lustre" papers the makers coat the paper
with ceramic dust. Some use a natural found mineral called Kaolin. All
have the same process. Seal (coat) the paper to stop it absorbing ink
and have the dust hold the ink. This of course, lets the ink evaporate
and the different elements of the ink evaporate at different rates which
causes the colour shift.

OK, so ignore Wilhelm's findings. He's paid handsomely by Epson to find
in their favour! The easiest way to fix the problem is to use an
uncoated paper. You'll get the longest life from plain, everyday copy
paper. Oh? not good enough quality? OK so next best is Epson's
"watercolour" paper. It's just really thick rag based paper anyway! The
next down the line is "Archival" matte papers. Right on down to the
cheap and nasty glossy stuff from China which doesn't last at all.

The part I have trouble with is where the printer makers and those sock
puppets they support just to add credibility to their claims... Talking
in 10s of years for print life when in reality, to get such life you
have to seal the prints from the atmosphere.

As far as I am concerned, the definitive measure of the life of a
photograph is a photograph. When the lies all subside and by some
magical process these giant corporations learn to tell the truth, a
photographic print will last as long as a photograph. Only then will I
stop telling the truth to anyone who will listen. As it is today, only
LASER PRINTER and DYE SUBLIMATION output will last as long as a
photograph. Both of these have their own limitations.

I have great success with a low end Minolta "magicolor" printer for my
postcards but I wouldn't use it for any other photograph except for
proofs. The Dye-Sub printers cost twice as much as inkjets to run. It
make it cheaper to have 23 cent (in Canada) prints made at a photo lab!.

Ryadia