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chemicals for infrequent use



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 24th 06, 02:00 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
pam in sc
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Posts: 7
Default chemicals for infrequent use

I'm getting back into darkroom work after many years, because my 13 year
old daughter is interested. I don't think we will be using the darkroom
more than 4-5 times a month (two rolls of film and/or maybe 10 8x10
prints each time). We're using Ilford film. I'm interested in what
chemicals will be economical for such infrequent use. I'm not worried
about subtle differences in results at this point.

I have 8x10 and 11x14 trays but I didn't keep my old chemical bottles,
so I have the chance to start fresh and buy bottles of any size. I don't
mind mixing powdered chemicals if that will be more economical, or
decanting developer into smaller bottles, but generally I want to keep
it fairly simple.

I'm in a small town so will be buying mail order, probably even the
bottles. So I would like to figure it out in advance and buy maybe 6
months worth.

So my question is, if you were starting fresh for infrequent use, which
chemicals would you buy in which sizes, and which size bottles would you
want to have for storage between uses.

Pam
  #2  
Old September 24th 06, 02:27 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Mike
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Posts: 89
Default chemicals for infrequent use

In general, use liquid concentrates if your use is infrequent. I do the
same thing for the same reason (I use my darkroom a couple times a
month).

I use Kodak HC-110 film developer directly from concentrate simply
because it keeps forever. See http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110
more more info on mixing film developer directly from concentrate.

HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives
with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad. HC-110 is ok though, and like
you said, if you don't care about subtle differences, it is definitely
fine and is the way to go for infrequent use.

Likewise, I mix small batches of paper developer directly from a liquid
concentrate instead of mixing a large batch from a powder packet. I use
Kodak Polymax T. This is better than mixing up a 1-gallon batch of Dektol
that then goes bad. With Polymax T, I can just mix up a small 500 ml batch
of paper developer (good for 8x10) and then pour it out the drain when I
am done for the night (actually I'll keep it around in case I go back into
the darkroom within the next week or so).

I never mix more than 1L at a time. Usually 500ml of developer and fixer
is good for 8x10 prints.

The developers are the chemicals that tend to go bad.

You won't have as much problem with Fixer. I like Sprint's fixer because
it keeps, is low-odor, and works well.

Hypo clear also goes bad with time, but I avoid its use. I don't use it
for film or RC prints. Heck, I don't bother using stop bath either. Just
developer and fix.

Have fun! Even in the world of digital photography, I believe the
darkroom experience is rewarding and valuable. In fact knowing the
traditional darkroom methods has made my Photoshop skills better too!

--Mike


I'm getting back into darkroom work after many years, because my 13 year
old daughter is interested. I don't think we will be using the darkroom
more than 4-5 times a month (two rolls of film and/or maybe 10 8x10
prints each time). We're using Ilford film. I'm interested in what
chemicals will be economical for such infrequent use. I'm not worried
about subtle differences in results at this point.

I have 8x10 and 11x14 trays but I didn't keep my old chemical bottles,
so I have the chance to start fresh and buy bottles of any size. I don't
mind mixing powdered chemicals if that will be more economical, or
decanting developer into smaller bottles, but generally I want to keep
it fairly simple.

I'm in a small town so will be buying mail order, probably even the
bottles. So I would like to figure it out in advance and buy maybe 6
months worth.

So my question is, if you were starting fresh for infrequent use, which
chemicals would you buy in which sizes, and which size bottles would you
want to have for storage between uses.

Pam


  #3  
Old September 24th 06, 06:46 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Andrew Price
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Posts: 118
Default chemicals for infrequent use

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:27:30 GMT, Mike wrote:

[---]

HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives
with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad.


Ilford's DD-X is also a liquid developer, and produces results which I
find much better than HC-110. It doesn't go bad.
  #4  
Old September 24th 06, 07:31 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default chemicals for infrequent use



HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives
with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad.


Ilford's DD-X is also a liquid developer, and produces results which I
find much better than HC-110. It doesn't go bad.


It does go bad. I have old DD-X...yes, it develops, but it produces
golf-ball sized grain. Others besides me have noticed that this developer
gets grainer with age.


  #5  
Old September 24th 06, 07:46 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Andrew Price
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Posts: 118
Default chemicals for infrequent use

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:31:07 GMT, Mike wrote:

HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives
with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad.


Ilford's DD-X is also a liquid developer, and produces results which I
find much better than HC-110. It doesn't go bad.


It does go bad. I have old DD-X...yes, it develops, but it produces
golf-ball sized grain. Others besides me have noticed that this developer
gets grainer with age.


I reused your terminology, when I shouldn't have. Of course DD-X goes
bad, insofar as, like all developers, it oxidises over time. However,
this is quite different to the "sudden death" syndrome of Xtol, which
is what I assumed you were referring to when you wrote "goes bad".
  #6  
Old September 24th 06, 08:41 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default chemicals for infrequent use


HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives
with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad.

Ilford's DD-X is also a liquid developer, and produces results which I
find much better than HC-110. It doesn't go bad.


It does go bad. I have old DD-X...yes, it develops, but it produces
golf-ball sized grain. Others besides me have noticed that this developer
gets grainer with age.


I reused your terminology, when I shouldn't have. Of course DD-X goes
bad, insofar as, like all developers, it oxidises over time. However,
this is quite different to the "sudden death" syndrome of Xtol, which
is what I assumed you were referring to when you wrote "goes bad".


Right. But if I recall, you typically miss DD-X 1:4 or 1:2. Sure, it is
probably good for a year or so. But HC-110 concentrate lasts for several
years.

I guess with DD-X, you will end up going through a bottle rather quickly
and it is expensive.
  #7  
Old September 24th 06, 08:58 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
pam in sc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default chemicals for infrequent use

Mike wrote:
In general, use liquid concentrates if your use is infrequent. I do the
same thing for the same reason (I use my darkroom a couple times a
month).

I use Kodak HC-110 film developer directly from concentrate simply
because it keeps forever. See http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110
more more info on mixing film developer directly from concentrate.

HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives
with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad. HC-110 is ok though, and like
you said, if you don't care about subtle differences, it is definitely
fine and is the way to go for infrequent use.

Likewise, I mix small batches of paper developer directly from a liquid
concentrate instead of mixing a large batch from a powder packet. I use
Kodak Polymax T. This is better than mixing up a 1-gallon batch of Dektol
that then goes bad. With Polymax T, I can just mix up a small 500 ml batch
of paper developer (good for 8x10) and then pour it out the drain when I
am done for the night (actually I'll keep it around in case I go back into
the darkroom within the next week or so).

I never mix more than 1L at a time. Usually 500ml of developer and fixer
is good for 8x10 prints.

The developers are the chemicals that tend to go bad.

You won't have as much problem with Fixer. I like Sprint's fixer because
it keeps, is low-odor, and works well.

Hypo clear also goes bad with time, but I avoid its use. I don't use it
for film or RC prints. Heck, I don't bother using stop bath either. Just
developer and fix.

Have fun! Even in the world of digital photography, I believe the
darkroom experience is rewarding and valuable. In fact knowing the
traditional darkroom methods has made my Photoshop skills better too!

--Mike


Very helpful, thank you. Instead of hypo clear you use a longer washing
time? I can see using water instead of a stop bath with paper, but with
film do you rinse with water or just pour out the developer and pour in
the fixer? I would think if you did that you would have to then discard
the fixer because it would lose its acidity too much.

You say you save diluted paper developer if you are going to use it
again within a week. I gather you save diluted fixer for longer? It
sounds like I might only need to buy 3 bottles to store diluted
chemicals--paper developer, film fixer and paper fixer. And maybe
another for stop bath if I want to use it with film--Adorama has an
own-brand liquid concentrate that is very cheap.

Pam
  #8  
Old September 24th 06, 09:24 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default chemicals for infrequent use



Very helpful, thank you. Instead of hypo clear you use a longer washing
time? I can see using water instead of a stop bath with paper, but with
film do you rinse with water or just pour out the developer and pour in
the fixer? I would think if you did that you would have to then discard
the fixer because it would lose its acidity too much.


I use a water stop both for both film and paper. However I don't
recommend using water as a stop for prints unless you use the "single tray
method". In this method, instead of having a seperate tray for developer,
stop, and fix, I use a single tray and pour the chemicals in and out.
Thus after I pour the developer out of the tray, I quickly rinse the print
in running water before pouring in the fixer. I really like the "single
tray" method because for many of my darkroom sessions I just make a few
prints. Less cleanup. If I plan on making lots of prints, then I will
set up the row of trays and move prints between trays.

You say you save diluted paper developer if you are going to use it
again within a week. I gather you save diluted fixer for longer?


Definitely. For film, I keep reusing the fixer until it takes to long to
clear. Every few rolls I use the cut-off snippet of film leader
and put it in the fixer. If it takes more than 5 minutes to clear, I
throw away the fix.

For paper fixer, I use a "fixer test". You put a drop in the bottle...if
it turns white, the fixer is saturated. An alternative way is just to
keep track of the # of 8x10 prints fixed. Doesn't have to be exact.
Sometimes I use a magic marker to tally this on the side of the bottle.

It
sounds like I might only need to buy 3 bottles to store diluted
chemicals--paper developer, film fixer and paper fixer. And maybe
another for stop bath if I want to use it with film--Adorama has an
own-brand liquid concentrate that is very cheap.


Yup!

Also I use old gatorade bottles and other beverate bottles. But to be
safe, you might just want to order a few bottles from Adorama.

Regarding film developer-- if you use HC-110, rate ISO 400 film at 320.
If you can't override the ISO setting on your camera, then maybe you
should take Andrew's suggestion and use DD-X instead. With DD-X, you
typically get full film speed such that an ISO 400 film is really 400. It
is a nice developer...just a little pricey for me.
  #9  
Old September 24th 06, 09:32 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default chemicals for infrequent use


Very helpful, thank you. Instead of hypo clear you use a longer washing
time?


I use hypo clear when making Fiber-based prints. In my opinion, hypo
clear isn't all that necessary for film and RC prints. I wash film and RC
prints for about 10 minutes.

If you are worried about negatives not lasting 30+ years or if you really
want to save water, then you can give yourself some piece of mind and use
hypo clear.

  #10  
Old September 24th 06, 10:33 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
David Nebenzahl
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Posts: 1,353
Default chemicals for infrequent use

pam in sc spake thus:

Very helpful, thank you. Instead of hypo clear you use a longer washing
time? I can see using water instead of a stop bath with paper, but with
film do you rinse with water or just pour out the developer and pour in
the fixer?


Just one small detail: you can use vinegar (white) for stop bath as I
do; dilute 1:3 or 1:4. Not necessarily cheaper than photographic stop
bath, but you can get it at any grocery store.


--
Napoleon won the battle of Waterloo. The German Wehrmacht won World War
II. The United States won in Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan.
The Zealots won against the Romans, and Ehud Olmert won the Second
Lebanon War.

- Uri Avnery, Israeli peace activist
(http://counterpunch.org/avnery09022006.html)
 




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