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#1
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chemicals for infrequent use
I'm getting back into darkroom work after many years, because my 13 year
old daughter is interested. I don't think we will be using the darkroom more than 4-5 times a month (two rolls of film and/or maybe 10 8x10 prints each time). We're using Ilford film. I'm interested in what chemicals will be economical for such infrequent use. I'm not worried about subtle differences in results at this point. I have 8x10 and 11x14 trays but I didn't keep my old chemical bottles, so I have the chance to start fresh and buy bottles of any size. I don't mind mixing powdered chemicals if that will be more economical, or decanting developer into smaller bottles, but generally I want to keep it fairly simple. I'm in a small town so will be buying mail order, probably even the bottles. So I would like to figure it out in advance and buy maybe 6 months worth. So my question is, if you were starting fresh for infrequent use, which chemicals would you buy in which sizes, and which size bottles would you want to have for storage between uses. Pam |
#2
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chemicals for infrequent use
In general, use liquid concentrates if your use is infrequent. I do the
same thing for the same reason (I use my darkroom a couple times a month). I use Kodak HC-110 film developer directly from concentrate simply because it keeps forever. See http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110 more more info on mixing film developer directly from concentrate. HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad. HC-110 is ok though, and like you said, if you don't care about subtle differences, it is definitely fine and is the way to go for infrequent use. Likewise, I mix small batches of paper developer directly from a liquid concentrate instead of mixing a large batch from a powder packet. I use Kodak Polymax T. This is better than mixing up a 1-gallon batch of Dektol that then goes bad. With Polymax T, I can just mix up a small 500 ml batch of paper developer (good for 8x10) and then pour it out the drain when I am done for the night (actually I'll keep it around in case I go back into the darkroom within the next week or so). I never mix more than 1L at a time. Usually 500ml of developer and fixer is good for 8x10 prints. The developers are the chemicals that tend to go bad. You won't have as much problem with Fixer. I like Sprint's fixer because it keeps, is low-odor, and works well. Hypo clear also goes bad with time, but I avoid its use. I don't use it for film or RC prints. Heck, I don't bother using stop bath either. Just developer and fix. Have fun! Even in the world of digital photography, I believe the darkroom experience is rewarding and valuable. In fact knowing the traditional darkroom methods has made my Photoshop skills better too! --Mike I'm getting back into darkroom work after many years, because my 13 year old daughter is interested. I don't think we will be using the darkroom more than 4-5 times a month (two rolls of film and/or maybe 10 8x10 prints each time). We're using Ilford film. I'm interested in what chemicals will be economical for such infrequent use. I'm not worried about subtle differences in results at this point. I have 8x10 and 11x14 trays but I didn't keep my old chemical bottles, so I have the chance to start fresh and buy bottles of any size. I don't mind mixing powdered chemicals if that will be more economical, or decanting developer into smaller bottles, but generally I want to keep it fairly simple. I'm in a small town so will be buying mail order, probably even the bottles. So I would like to figure it out in advance and buy maybe 6 months worth. So my question is, if you were starting fresh for infrequent use, which chemicals would you buy in which sizes, and which size bottles would you want to have for storage between uses. Pam |
#3
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chemicals for infrequent use
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:27:30 GMT, Mike wrote:
[---] HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad. Ilford's DD-X is also a liquid developer, and produces results which I find much better than HC-110. It doesn't go bad. |
#4
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chemicals for infrequent use
HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad. Ilford's DD-X is also a liquid developer, and produces results which I find much better than HC-110. It doesn't go bad. It does go bad. I have old DD-X...yes, it develops, but it produces golf-ball sized grain. Others besides me have noticed that this developer gets grainer with age. |
#5
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chemicals for infrequent use
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:31:07 GMT, Mike wrote:
HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad. Ilford's DD-X is also a liquid developer, and produces results which I find much better than HC-110. It doesn't go bad. It does go bad. I have old DD-X...yes, it develops, but it produces golf-ball sized grain. Others besides me have noticed that this developer gets grainer with age. I reused your terminology, when I shouldn't have. Of course DD-X goes bad, insofar as, like all developers, it oxidises over time. However, this is quite different to the "sudden death" syndrome of Xtol, which is what I assumed you were referring to when you wrote "goes bad". |
#6
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chemicals for infrequent use
HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad. Ilford's DD-X is also a liquid developer, and produces results which I find much better than HC-110. It doesn't go bad. It does go bad. I have old DD-X...yes, it develops, but it produces golf-ball sized grain. Others besides me have noticed that this developer gets grainer with age. I reused your terminology, when I shouldn't have. Of course DD-X goes bad, insofar as, like all developers, it oxidises over time. However, this is quite different to the "sudden death" syndrome of Xtol, which is what I assumed you were referring to when you wrote "goes bad". Right. But if I recall, you typically miss DD-X 1:4 or 1:2. Sure, it is probably good for a year or so. But HC-110 concentrate lasts for several years. I guess with DD-X, you will end up going through a bottle rather quickly and it is expensive. |
#7
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chemicals for infrequent use
Mike wrote:
In general, use liquid concentrates if your use is infrequent. I do the same thing for the same reason (I use my darkroom a couple times a month). I use Kodak HC-110 film developer directly from concentrate simply because it keeps forever. See http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110 more more info on mixing film developer directly from concentrate. HC-110 isn't the best developer in the world. I got much nicer negatives with Kodak Xtol. However Xtol goes bad. HC-110 is ok though, and like you said, if you don't care about subtle differences, it is definitely fine and is the way to go for infrequent use. Likewise, I mix small batches of paper developer directly from a liquid concentrate instead of mixing a large batch from a powder packet. I use Kodak Polymax T. This is better than mixing up a 1-gallon batch of Dektol that then goes bad. With Polymax T, I can just mix up a small 500 ml batch of paper developer (good for 8x10) and then pour it out the drain when I am done for the night (actually I'll keep it around in case I go back into the darkroom within the next week or so). I never mix more than 1L at a time. Usually 500ml of developer and fixer is good for 8x10 prints. The developers are the chemicals that tend to go bad. You won't have as much problem with Fixer. I like Sprint's fixer because it keeps, is low-odor, and works well. Hypo clear also goes bad with time, but I avoid its use. I don't use it for film or RC prints. Heck, I don't bother using stop bath either. Just developer and fix. Have fun! Even in the world of digital photography, I believe the darkroom experience is rewarding and valuable. In fact knowing the traditional darkroom methods has made my Photoshop skills better too! --Mike Very helpful, thank you. Instead of hypo clear you use a longer washing time? I can see using water instead of a stop bath with paper, but with film do you rinse with water or just pour out the developer and pour in the fixer? I would think if you did that you would have to then discard the fixer because it would lose its acidity too much. You say you save diluted paper developer if you are going to use it again within a week. I gather you save diluted fixer for longer? It sounds like I might only need to buy 3 bottles to store diluted chemicals--paper developer, film fixer and paper fixer. And maybe another for stop bath if I want to use it with film--Adorama has an own-brand liquid concentrate that is very cheap. Pam |
#8
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chemicals for infrequent use
Very helpful, thank you. Instead of hypo clear you use a longer washing time? I can see using water instead of a stop bath with paper, but with film do you rinse with water or just pour out the developer and pour in the fixer? I would think if you did that you would have to then discard the fixer because it would lose its acidity too much. I use a water stop both for both film and paper. However I don't recommend using water as a stop for prints unless you use the "single tray method". In this method, instead of having a seperate tray for developer, stop, and fix, I use a single tray and pour the chemicals in and out. Thus after I pour the developer out of the tray, I quickly rinse the print in running water before pouring in the fixer. I really like the "single tray" method because for many of my darkroom sessions I just make a few prints. Less cleanup. If I plan on making lots of prints, then I will set up the row of trays and move prints between trays. You say you save diluted paper developer if you are going to use it again within a week. I gather you save diluted fixer for longer? Definitely. For film, I keep reusing the fixer until it takes to long to clear. Every few rolls I use the cut-off snippet of film leader and put it in the fixer. If it takes more than 5 minutes to clear, I throw away the fix. For paper fixer, I use a "fixer test". You put a drop in the bottle...if it turns white, the fixer is saturated. An alternative way is just to keep track of the # of 8x10 prints fixed. Doesn't have to be exact. Sometimes I use a magic marker to tally this on the side of the bottle. It sounds like I might only need to buy 3 bottles to store diluted chemicals--paper developer, film fixer and paper fixer. And maybe another for stop bath if I want to use it with film--Adorama has an own-brand liquid concentrate that is very cheap. Yup! Also I use old gatorade bottles and other beverate bottles. But to be safe, you might just want to order a few bottles from Adorama. Regarding film developer-- if you use HC-110, rate ISO 400 film at 320. If you can't override the ISO setting on your camera, then maybe you should take Andrew's suggestion and use DD-X instead. With DD-X, you typically get full film speed such that an ISO 400 film is really 400. It is a nice developer...just a little pricey for me. |
#9
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chemicals for infrequent use
Very helpful, thank you. Instead of hypo clear you use a longer washing time? I use hypo clear when making Fiber-based prints. In my opinion, hypo clear isn't all that necessary for film and RC prints. I wash film and RC prints for about 10 minutes. If you are worried about negatives not lasting 30+ years or if you really want to save water, then you can give yourself some piece of mind and use hypo clear. |
#10
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chemicals for infrequent use
pam in sc spake thus:
Very helpful, thank you. Instead of hypo clear you use a longer washing time? I can see using water instead of a stop bath with paper, but with film do you rinse with water or just pour out the developer and pour in the fixer? Just one small detail: you can use vinegar (white) for stop bath as I do; dilute 1:3 or 1:4. Not necessarily cheaper than photographic stop bath, but you can get it at any grocery store. -- Napoleon won the battle of Waterloo. The German Wehrmacht won World War II. The United States won in Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan. The Zealots won against the Romans, and Ehud Olmert won the Second Lebanon War. - Uri Avnery, Israeli peace activist (http://counterpunch.org/avnery09022006.html) |
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