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Ink Jet Prints Problems
Ink Jet Prints Problems: I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of time. Say six months. I have taken new prints and covered half of the image with a piece of acid free paper and put them up out of the way. Never in bright or direct light. After a while the uncovered side has faded until there is a line visible. The room I do this in is not very bright and when I placed one in the dinning room which is much bright brighter with indirect sunlight the fading is much worst. I have taken an 8x12 color print from Walmart and am doing the same test with it. After almost two years I have noticed no change in the machine prints brightness. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? Marshall Thurman |
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"Marshall Thurman" wrote in message ... Ink Jet Prints Problems: in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? Not me. The only combination of paper and ink that faded on me was Minolta paper and Epson Photo 700 ink. My 1280 prints look fine even after 3 years. I do put them under glass which helps get rid of the ultra violet light. Jim |
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"Marshall Thurman" wrote in message ... Ink Jet Prints Problems: in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? Not me. The only combination of paper and ink that faded on me was Minolta paper and Epson Photo 700 ink. My 1280 prints look fine even after 3 years. I do put them under glass which helps get rid of the ultra violet light. Jim |
#4
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"Marshall Thurman" wrote in message ... Ink Jet Prints Problems: in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? Not me. The only combination of paper and ink that faded on me was Minolta paper and Epson Photo 700 ink. My 1280 prints look fine even after 3 years. I do put them under glass which helps get rid of the ultra violet light. Jim |
#5
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Marshall Thurman wrote:
Ink Jet Prints Problems: I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of time. Say six months. I have taken new prints and covered half of the image with a piece of acid free paper and put them up out of the way. Never in bright or direct light. After a while the uncovered side has faded until there is a line visible. The room I do this in is not very bright and when I placed one in the dinning room which is much bright brighter with indirect sunlight the fading is much worst. I have taken an 8x12 color print from Walmart and am doing the same test with it. After almost two years I have noticed no change in the machine prints brightness. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? Marshall Thurman You need to read a lot more. Yes, lots of people have noticed this problem. It has been much talked about in print and on the Internet for as many years as there have been ink jet printers. Yes, the technology is getting better, but it's not perfect yet. With the right combinations of paper, ink, storage, and display, prints can be truly "long lasting" now. Twenty five, 50, or even 100 years should do it. However, it really has to be the right combination. For example, your dye based Epson inks on your 1280 will last quite awhile on some Epson papers. Of course, they need to be displayed under glass, not out in the open like you are doing. They may or may not do as well on Ilford and Kodak papers. Alas, it's hard to find good tests done on 3rd party papers. OTOH, you will get quick fading on other papers. The pigmented inks on my Epson R800 should last much longer on most papers. However, there are some papers it wouldn't be good on at all. These inks aren't as affected by light, but there can still be a gas problem that is helped by display under glass. Yes, it's a well know and over debated issue. Yes, it's getting better. No, it's not perfect. However, it's way better than is was a few years ago. Now the next problem is getting all the techno geeks who rant about this to make images that any one will care if it lasts 50 or 100 years. Clyde |
#6
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Marshall Thurman wrote:
Ink Jet Prints Problems: I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of time. Say six months. I have taken new prints and covered half of the image with a piece of acid free paper and put them up out of the way. Never in bright or direct light. After a while the uncovered side has faded until there is a line visible. The room I do this in is not very bright and when I placed one in the dinning room which is much bright brighter with indirect sunlight the fading is much worst. I have taken an 8x12 color print from Walmart and am doing the same test with it. After almost two years I have noticed no change in the machine prints brightness. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? Marshall Thurman You need to read a lot more. Yes, lots of people have noticed this problem. It has been much talked about in print and on the Internet for as many years as there have been ink jet printers. Yes, the technology is getting better, but it's not perfect yet. With the right combinations of paper, ink, storage, and display, prints can be truly "long lasting" now. Twenty five, 50, or even 100 years should do it. However, it really has to be the right combination. For example, your dye based Epson inks on your 1280 will last quite awhile on some Epson papers. Of course, they need to be displayed under glass, not out in the open like you are doing. They may or may not do as well on Ilford and Kodak papers. Alas, it's hard to find good tests done on 3rd party papers. OTOH, you will get quick fading on other papers. The pigmented inks on my Epson R800 should last much longer on most papers. However, there are some papers it wouldn't be good on at all. These inks aren't as affected by light, but there can still be a gas problem that is helped by display under glass. Yes, it's a well know and over debated issue. Yes, it's getting better. No, it's not perfect. However, it's way better than is was a few years ago. Now the next problem is getting all the techno geeks who rant about this to make images that any one will care if it lasts 50 or 100 years. Clyde |
#8
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From: Marshall Thurman
I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of time. Say six months. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? The ink jet manufacturers like Epson and Canon primarily use the testing methods of Henry Wilhelm, who tests inkjets and traditional photo papers to the same set of conditions. The longevity estimates assume the prints are displayed under glass in certain temperature, humidity and light-intensity conditions and are based on accelerated testing. For the Epson 1280 results of these tests ranged from 26 years for the ColorLife paper down to 6 months for Glossy Film. The Ilford and Kodak papers weren't tested but likely would do poor in a longevity test with these inks. The 1280 also had a problem with gas-fastness (as opposed to light-fastness) in some environments, especially with glossy papers, and that's likely what you are seeing. Some of these prints had an orange-shift in a matter of days. For more info check these sites: http://www.inkjetart.com/news/longevity/index.html http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/...61,pg,1,00.asp http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ You can download Wilhelm's book in PDF format if you want to learn more about the testing methods. Bottom line is that to get good longevity results you need to stick with paper and ink combos that have been tested and then display the prints in similar conditions to the test assumptions, ie, under glass etc. Bill |
#9
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From: Marshall Thurman
I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of time. Say six months. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? The ink jet manufacturers like Epson and Canon primarily use the testing methods of Henry Wilhelm, who tests inkjets and traditional photo papers to the same set of conditions. The longevity estimates assume the prints are displayed under glass in certain temperature, humidity and light-intensity conditions and are based on accelerated testing. For the Epson 1280 results of these tests ranged from 26 years for the ColorLife paper down to 6 months for Glossy Film. The Ilford and Kodak papers weren't tested but likely would do poor in a longevity test with these inks. The 1280 also had a problem with gas-fastness (as opposed to light-fastness) in some environments, especially with glossy papers, and that's likely what you are seeing. Some of these prints had an orange-shift in a matter of days. For more info check these sites: http://www.inkjetart.com/news/longevity/index.html http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/...61,pg,1,00.asp http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ You can download Wilhelm's book in PDF format if you want to learn more about the testing methods. Bottom line is that to get good longevity results you need to stick with paper and ink combos that have been tested and then display the prints in similar conditions to the test assumptions, ie, under glass etc. Bill |
#10
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Marshall Thurman wrote:
Ink Jet Prints Problems: I have noticed something with my ink jet prints and wonder if anybody else is having the same problem. I am at present using an Epson 1280 and only use Epson inks in the printer. I do use several brands of paper. Epson when I can find it but I have used Ilford and as of late Kodak Ultra premium. I have noticed my prints seem to fade with the passage of a short period of time. Say six months. I have taken new prints and covered half of the image with a piece of acid free paper and put them up out of the way. Never in bright or direct light. After a while the uncovered side has faded until there is a line visible. The room I do this in is not very bright and when I placed one in the dinning room which is much bright brighter with indirect sunlight the fading is much worst. I have taken an 8x12 color print from Walmart and am doing the same test with it. After almost two years I have noticed no change in the machine prints brightness. The manufactures of ink jet machine claim that the prints are long lasting but I have not found that to be true in my experiences. Is anybody else noticed this problem? Marshall Thurman Your problem is widespread Marshall. Some people don't notice the problem as much as others. This, no doubt is due to atmosphere variations. The way coated paper is made is the cause, not so much the inks used. To get gloss or "lustre" papers the makers coat the paper with ceramic dust. Some use a natural found mineral called Kaolin. All have the same process. Seal (coat) the paper to stop it absorbing ink and have the dust hold the ink. This of course, lets the ink evaporate and the different elements of the ink evaporate at different rates which causes the colour shift. OK, so ignore Wilhelm's findings. He's paid handsomely by Epson to find in their favour! The easiest way to fix the problem is to use an uncoated paper. You'll get the longest life from plain, everyday copy paper. Oh? not good enough quality? OK so next best is Epson's "watercolour" paper. It's just really thick rag based paper anyway! The next down the line is "Archival" matte papers. Right on down to the cheap and nasty glossy stuff from China which doesn't last at all. The part I have trouble with is where the printer makers and those sock puppets they support just to add credibility to their claims... Talking in 10s of years for print life when in reality, to get such life you have to seal the prints from the atmosphere. As far as I am concerned, the definitive measure of the life of a photograph is a photograph. When the lies all subside and by some magical process these giant corporations learn to tell the truth, a photographic print will last as long as a photograph. Only then will I stop telling the truth to anyone who will listen. As it is today, only LASER PRINTER and DYE SUBLIMATION output will last as long as a photograph. Both of these have their own limitations. I have great success with a low end Minolta "magicolor" printer for my postcards but I wouldn't use it for any other photograph except for proofs. The Dye-Sub printers cost twice as much as inkjets to run. It make it cheaper to have 23 cent (in Canada) prints made at a photo lab!. Ryadia |
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