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Be careful about photographing your kids!



 
 
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  #181  
Old October 17th 03, 12:13 AM
William Graham
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Default Be careful about photographing your kids!


"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
But if
this "virtual reality" incites the lust that these perverts have and
they go out and look for _your_ children, grandchildren, nephews,
nieces... what will you say then?


To put them in jail, for what they DID, not what they THOUGHT.


It's worse than that. "The ban the books" philosophy has been the basis for
censorship and book burning throughout the ages.....It's amazing that, at
this late date, it still has its advocates.....There exists a Bay Area talk
show host that wants to remove all books on, "bombs and bomb making" out of
the public libraries.....When I asked her how the people whose job it is to
defuse bombs could learn their trade, she had no answer, but the excuse that
the masses, "can't handle" some kinds of knowledge is as old as
civilization.........


  #182  
Old October 17th 03, 12:33 AM
William Graham
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Default Be careful about photographing your kids!


"Gregory W. Blank" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"William Graham" wrote:

There are a lot of people who collect automobile license plates....


Most interesting, what would happen if you actually got pulled
over with the tags on?

Usually, nothing.....The cop is so anxious to scribble out a ticket and get
that other guy, that he doesn't bother to check anything....After all, he's
got a quota to get....He's gotta pay for that $100,000 patrol car and his
salery and uniform somehow.....But in recent years, I don't get moving
violation tickets....For one thing, the state/city is so strapped for money
that they can't hire any cops anyway....They take 50% of my salery away, and
God only knows what they blow it on, but police services aren't any part of
it....That would be giving the taxpayers something worthwhile for our
money......No, they are just feeding all the hangers on....That guy at the
DMV that spends all day talking to his girlfriend on the phone......


  #183  
Old October 17th 03, 12:49 AM
George Kerby
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Default Be careful about photographing your kids!

On 10/16/03 5:01 PM, in article
, "William Graham"
wrote:


"Gregory W. Blank" wrote in message
...
In article V%Cjb.573984$cF.246582@rwcrnsc53,
"William Graham" wrote:

I am a lot more concerned with reckless drivers than

speeders....Speeding,
by itself is relatively harmless....Modern cars on modern roads are

capable
of going a lot faster than most speed limits....It's the guys that

follow
the cars ahead of them at 50 feet or less at 80 mph that concern me. If

I
drive sanely on the freeway, (80mph with 250 feet between me and the car
ahead) I am passed and cut in front of by 50 or more cars in a fifty

mile
stretch of road....And every time a car does that, I have to back off
another 50 feet or more to keep a safe distance behind him.


Yep couldn't agree with this more.

Put money in meters? - Sure, I've done it.....And gotten ticketed
anyway, dozens of times.....I just got one the other day, when my wife

and I
put $2.50 in a machine in Portland, and it gave us no ticket, so we had

to
leave the car with no proof of payment.....The next time I went up

there, I
had my garage sale plates on the car.....I can't afford to spend my life

in
a courthouse protesting a $10 fine, so I fight with the "Thoreau"
method....Cival Disobedience.........After I use my garage sale plates

to
save the $10 fine, maybe....just maybe, I'll start stuffing the meters
again, but you can bet on one thing....When I leave this world, The
state/city isn't going to owe me anything....I will have taken what's

mine
in advance......


Pardon my ignorance but what are "Garage Sale Plates"?

There are a lot of people who collect automobile license plates.....These
are plates that are removed by the junkyard operators from cars that have
been wrecked or abandonded, or sold for parts.....You can find these license
plates in second hand stores, or garage sales, or junk stores....I have
found a set in the past that were still "good" for another 6 months.....IOW,
the little red sticker on the lower left corner still had 6 months to go
before it expired. And, both the front and the rear plate were available.
But, in any case, I have many sets of these plates, most of which I paid
less than $5.00 a set for, and I can put them on my car when I park, so the
parking tickets that I get are worthless....When the city tries to collect
on them, they do not have a valid address for me....The plates in their
computer system lead them down a blind alley, to a car that no longer
exists.....The same would be true were I to get a speeding ticket from a
machine, usually located in a tunnel, that uses a camera with a flashgun
that senses my speed, and then takes a picture of my plates as I speed
by......This ticket too, would end up in, "never-never land".....We don't
have any machines like this here in Oregon, but they have quite a few of
them in other places....I know they use them in Germany, because my nephew
was stationed there while in the Army, and he told me about them over ten
years ago. At one time, I had so many untraceable parking tickets on one of
my favorite vehicles that I seriously considered papering the wall of my
room with them.......Parking tickets are especially abomidable to me, since
I consider them to be illegal....The streets belong to me, not the police or
my government. Also, they are costly to the local merchants, since they
drive people to shop in malls that have free parking in their lots and
parking garages. Why park on the street and risk a $10 (or more) ticket to
patronize a local merchant, when you can go to the mall and park for free
and buy your stuff there? In some cities in California, the local merchants
have taken up a collection and paid their local governments off to remove
the parking meters. The merchants have, "underwritten" the funds the city
usually collects, IOW, and just pay the extra taxes to not have their
customers bothered by the meters.....They did this in Palo Alto some years
back......


Well, aren't you clever! I bet you drive through EZ Tag toll booths as
well...


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  #184  
Old October 17th 03, 12:52 AM
George Kerby
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Default Be careful about photographing your kids!

On 10/16/03 5:22 PM, in article MSEjb.571219$Oz4.539660@rwcrnsc54, "William
Graham" wrote:


"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
save the $10 fine, maybe....just maybe, I'll start stuffing the meters
again, but you can bet on one thing....When I leave this world, The
state/city isn't going to owe me anything....I will have taken what's

mine
in advance......



Now THERE'S a attitude for all of us to aspire to. sigh.
There you have it, folks, the ideal example of the 'me' generation.

You bet your sweet patootie......The government is WAY too big, and WAY too
expensive, and if you are the kind of person who just says, "Where's my pen,
Hortence....I have to write a check to the city/state/federal government",
without making sure that YOUR rights haven't been violated first, then YOU
are the one who is responsible for it, and YOU will get everything YOU
deserve down the road, when they usher YOU into your private padded
cell.......On second thought, you will probably escape.....It's your
grandchildren (and mine) who will eventually pay the piper, when you are
safely tucked away in your coffin........But at least, I will have done what
I could to slow the process down.....Tell me, Ron, have you ever found out
just who sets the DMV rates on your vehicles every year? - Did you elect
these individuals? If not, then who did? - Or, who appointed them? - And
what guidelines did they follow when they decided that you have to pay
$xxx.yy for that Buick you drive? And have you ever gone into a DMV office
and watched one of their employees? - What did he/she do? I'll give you a
hint. (I have watched them) They go to a girl friends desk and talk. Then
they telephone another girl friend, and talk. Then they go to someone else's
desk and talk. then they go to lunch. Then they go to another phone and
phone another girl friend and talk. Then......You get the idea? - And they
are all doing it on your money, and mine......


You MUST be in California!
Grayout Davis got you, eh?


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  #185  
Old October 17th 03, 12:57 AM
Alan Browne
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Default Be careful about photographing your kids!



William Graham wrote:

"Alan Browne" "Alan wrote in message
...


William Graham wrote:


I've read claims of the likelyhood that 40% of kiddie-porn users
eventually 'have to have the real thing'.


But using that logic, we should all have to spend our lives in padded


cells

under continuous round-the-clock surveillance because some percentage of


us

will certainly committ heneius crimes if allowed to have the freedom to


come

and go as we please.......I think you have a serious problem


understanding

what the constitution and the freedoms guranteed by that document really
are.......



You're perverting the message to your conclusion, I merely quoted the
opinion that k-p users have a need for real contact. By providing them
with a 'no-children-harmed-in-the-making' version of k-p, they would be
provided with material that incites some number of them to seek out
children.

The point at issue is whether synthetic/virtual kiddie-porn should be
legal or protected under free-speech as there are "no victims". But if
this "virtual reality" incites the lust that these perverts have and
they go out and look for _your_ children, grandchildren, nephews,
nieces... what will you say then?

We are talking about children here, and all children deserve our
protection from things they do not yet understand and are not fully
equipped to handle. I remember when my son was given greater reign to
cycle around town, how I was compelled to give him strict instructions
about dealing with strangers.

If you seriously believe that the B-of-Rights authors could have forseen
the effect of communications technology on issues such as k-p, you are
giving them far too much foresight. Article V is in the original C. for
a reason. But partisan politics has prevented its use for the
betterment of the constitution.

The US C. may be a great study in foundation law, but to actually
believe that it is adequate unto the day is foolhardy.

Alan.


Of course the framers of the document couldn't forsee all the advances we
have today....In communications, transportqtion and weaponry, for
example....But their document has a "spirit" that is evident to anyone who
reads it carefully. the laws made under it during the last 200 years or so
should reflect that spirit, or general philosophy.....To me, it is evident
that making laws against the publication, distribution, and possession of
lewd material of the off chance that there exist those who might be prompted
to committ crimes by observing that material is decidedly against the spirit
of the constitution....But, YMMV, as they say.....God knows that there are
many laws made that violate the spirit of the document....The laws against
the possession of "assault weapons" for example....To me, those are the very
weapons that the framers of the document were talking about in the second
amendment......The weapons that foreign invaders would be using should they
launch an assault on our country.....But somehow, the liberals have succeded
in convincing the population that these should be banned, and only hunting
and target weapons should be legal to own and carry. As if the second
amendment says, "A jucy side of venison being necessary to fill the stomachs
of the people of a free state, the right to keep and bear arms should not be
infringed.".......Go figure.........



You're almost as bad as Mx for twisting the contxt of a thread around.

If YOU want k-p virtual reality porn to be legal, and so says the
majority, then you get what you deserve. That's why the framers put in
article V of the original C. So you could change it. How about an
amendment for the childrens's right to be protected against predators
and that such amendment is allowed full power over the 1st?

As to the poorly written 2nd amendment, the courts seem to be confounded
over "well regulated Militia". I have no qualms about keeping and
bearing, but where is the "regulated"? As to the state of arms today,
the US C. seems to approve of me (should I move to the US) owning an M60
tank, fully loaded and ready for an invasion (but the highways dept.
would never give me a licence!).

This thread is spinning out of control into deeply OT, so I'm leaving
it. If the basic evil of k-p, real or synthetic is okay with you then
that's your problem. It will never be okay with me. I suspect that
Canadian courts would side against synth k-p, even though our courts are
leaning over backwards to protect free speech.

Alan.

  #186  
Old October 17th 03, 01:08 AM
William Graham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Be careful about photographing your kids!


"George Kerby" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/03 5:22 PM, in article MSEjb.571219$Oz4.539660@rwcrnsc54,

"William
Graham" wrote:


"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
save the $10 fine, maybe....just maybe, I'll start stuffing the meters
again, but you can bet on one thing....When I leave this world, The
state/city isn't going to owe me anything....I will have taken what's

mine
in advance......



Now THERE'S a attitude for all of us to aspire to. sigh.
There you have it, folks, the ideal example of the 'me' generation.

You bet your sweet patootie......The government is WAY too big, and WAY

too
expensive, and if you are the kind of person who just says, "Where's my

pen,
Hortence....I have to write a check to the city/state/federal

government",
without making sure that YOUR rights haven't been violated first, then

YOU
are the one who is responsible for it, and YOU will get everything YOU
deserve down the road, when they usher YOU into your private padded
cell.......On second thought, you will probably escape.....It's your
grandchildren (and mine) who will eventually pay the piper, when you are
safely tucked away in your coffin........But at least, I will have done

what
I could to slow the process down.....Tell me, Ron, have you ever found

out
just who sets the DMV rates on your vehicles every year? - Did you elect
these individuals? If not, then who did? - Or, who appointed them? - And
what guidelines did they follow when they decided that you have to pay
$xxx.yy for that Buick you drive? And have you ever gone into a DMV

office
and watched one of their employees? - What did he/she do? I'll give you

a
hint. (I have watched them) They go to a girl friends desk and talk.

Then
they telephone another girl friend, and talk. Then they go to someone

else's
desk and talk. then they go to lunch. Then they go to another phone and
phone another girl friend and talk. Then......You get the idea? - And

they
are all doing it on your money, and mine......


You MUST be in California!
Grayout Davis got you, eh?

No, but that's a good guess.....I lived and worked in California for 44
years......I started registering my vehicles up here in Oregon ($15 a year,
even for Rolls Royces) back in 1980.....Between the state income tax, the
sales taxes, and the property taxes (the DMV fees are just property taxes) I
was paying about 50% of my income to Government.....I couldn't wait to leave
California.....Then they wanted to force me to pay State income tax on my
retirement funds even though I lived out of the state.....Constitution? What
Constitution? - We don't need any stinking Constitution.....We're banditos!


  #187  
Old October 17th 03, 01:14 AM
Alan Browne
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Default Be careful about photographing your kids!



Ron Hunter wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:

You're perverting the message to your conclusion, I merely quoted the
opinion that k-p users have a need for real contact. By providing
them with a 'no-children-harmed-in-the-making' version of k-p, they
would be provided with material that incites some number of them to
seek out children.



Your opinion, and not matched by any research into the subject.

No: the opinion of a police officer who works in the domain and quoted
in the link higher up in the thread.



The point at issue is whether synthetic/virtual kiddie-porn should be
legal or protected under free-speech as there are "no victims". But
if this "virtual reality" incites the lust that these perverts have
and they go out and look for _your_ children, grandchildren, nephews,
nieces... what will you say then?



To put them in jail, for what they DID, not what they THOUGHT.


Circular. Those perverts who can think up their sickness and leave
people alone, I have no issue. To me, the use of software that creates
such images is just as dangerous as the circulation of kp in circulation
and being added to by the hour. You can label it thought or deed and
act accordingly; however, there is thought in the police community that
people who possess k-p, commit the crimes. You might not accept the
following notion, but the existence of k-p is to the pedophile a stamp
of approval. His inhibitions are lowered. He then needs to satisfy his
needs. Synthetic k-p will be the same.



We are talking about children here, and all children deserve our
protection from things they do not yet understand and are not fully
equipped to handle. I remember when my son was given greater reign to
cycle around town, how I was compelled to give him strict instructions
about dealing with strangers.



Good advice, but the fact is that 99.999% of everyone your son meets
wouldn't harm him if THEIR life depended on it. Is it really worth
making a child fearful and distrusting of everyone just on the off
chance he might suffer? And the FACT is that most molestations are done
by people the child KNOWS, so the 'stranger danger' is a very rare thing.


Go talk to the parents of one of the 1/100,000 that you let go up there.
there are child abductions everywhere in the world, and not all of
them by divorced parents, and recently there has been a rash of it
happening in Montreal. It is real even if you pretend it isn't.
http://www.canada.com/search/story.a...e-9dc122494995
This past summer a girl in Toronto was abducted and dismembered.

My son never reacted adversely to the advice. He talks to strangers as
things go. But he would never accept anything from one, get in their
car or enter their home.

You are correct about people the child knows. Oddly, a child who has
never known abuse in the home, is that much more unwary of the danger
outside the home.



If you seriously believe that the B-of-Rights authors could have
forseen the effect of communications technology on issues such as k-p,
you are giving them far too much foresight. Article V is in the
original C. for a reason. But partisan politics has prevented its use
for the betterment of the constitution.



I suppose that the only KP available to the founders of the US was the
kind in paintings, of which there are many. However, the attitude
toward what we call 'child molestation' was VASTLY different then.


The US C. may be a great study in foundation law, but to actually
believe that it is adequate unto the day is foolhardy.



NO, it is wisdom. Thinking that you know better than those guys what an
irresonsible, and non-responsive government can do to its citizens is
foolhardy.


You are wrong. It is a good foundation. Foundations need maintenance
over time and changing conditions.

  #188  
Old October 17th 03, 01:19 AM
George Kerby
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Default Be careful about photographing your kids!

On 10/16/03 6:33 PM, in article
, "William Graham"
wrote:


"Gregory W. Blank" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"William Graham" wrote:

There are a lot of people who collect automobile license plates....


Most interesting, what would happen if you actually got pulled
over with the tags on?

Usually, nothing.....The cop is so anxious to scribble out a ticket and get
that other guy, that he doesn't bother to check anything..


No wonder California is screwed up!

In Texas, when an officer pulls over an offender for a traffic violation the
first thing is that he enters the tag on the computer before he gets out of
the car. It comes back with VIN number, description of the vehicle, owner
info and any prior offenses concerning this vehicle and/or owner. Then the
officer is prepared as to how to deal with the situation before he leaves
the unit to approach the violator.

What a mess!


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  #189  
Old October 17th 03, 01:19 AM
William Graham
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Posts: n/a
Default Be careful about photographing your kids!


"George Kerby" wrote in message
news:BBB498A1.1EE1B%
Well, aren't you clever! I bet you drive through EZ Tag toll booths as
well...

I don't know what, "EZ Tag toll booths are", but if they are a legitimate
way to pay for the roads, I wouldn't try to cheat them.....I only cheat the
government out of the money that they have already cheated me out of.....I
believe that everyone should pay their fair share of government expenses. If
Bill Gates doesn't get any more fire and police, and Army protection from
the government than I do, then he shouldn't have to pay any more for it than
I do......Why is it that I can kill myself with candy bars (I am a diabetic)
and not have to pay anything for it, but if you smoke cigarettes, you have
to pay $3.00 a pack for them, when any tobacco farmer will tell you that
they should only cost about 60 cents a pack, even if they have to be shipped
all the way to Mazatlan, Mexico and sold there at retail? Why do you let
your government screw other people? - Don't you ever stop to think that some
day in the future, they may get around to screwing you?


  #190  
Old October 17th 03, 01:20 AM
Alan Browne
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Posts: n/a
Default Be careful about photographing your kids!



Francis A. Miniter wrote:

all the reasonable and good stuff snipped

As for what people see, police investigators and coroners see things
far, far worse than the average movie viewer will ever see. Now that is
something to make one queasy. Does this make them evil? We presume
not. So the point cannot be that viewing something makes one a worse
human being.


To 'normal' people, no. But to someone with a seed of obsession,
perversion or sickness..., yes, ...it is fuel. That is why the
obsessed, perverted and sick SEEK out this material. And that leads to
victimization.

 




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